Question????

[feelthepain]

It seems clear Tom isn't having the success he's enjoyed the last five years, at least early this season.

My question is to all those Pat fans that think Tom Brady was 90% responsible for the SB success of the past three SB's and labling him one of the best QB's ever, he seems quite normal and not very spectacular so far this season which leads me to believe it was more about the Pats as a team that won three SB's and not "God ol Brady".

As I've stated in previous threads, Brady was an important part of those SB's, but not any more important then any other part of the Pats "TEAM". There is no way Brady will ever be half the QB Dan Marino was and if Brady had to suffer through the years and teams Marino had Brady would not only never reach one single milestone Marino reached, but most definately never have a single SB.

Now before you people start crying, and looking to sling insults this thread was not intended to do so, it was intended to prove without the caliber of caoching and talent that Brady has had the fortune to have around him and the fans have had the pleasure of watching there would be no SB's rings in NE.

There are some fans here that are reasonable enough to understand that it took an entire team effort to win three SB's in 5 years, but they are few and far between. I still think the Pats are the best team in the division....for the moment, but I also believe the division is up for grabs. NE could very well turn it all around and start to pull away and win the division with ease, but they could also continue down this path of just plain average.

So before you Pat fans get your panties in a knot and think this was a smack thread, it's not! It's just a thread to say Football is a team sport and anyone here who thinks Brady was the main reason for the success in NE the last five seasons you should be shot as football fans, because there were a whole lotta good football players that played in NE the last five years that are getting little respect for their efforts. The reason Peyton Manning hasn't won a SB yet is because his entire team isn't good enough to win it all, it sure isn't because Peyton isn't good enough.

 

[zippo59]

If anything I think Brady's struggles have proved how important he is to this team's success. Brady has not played very well the first three games, as a result the whole team has not played well and has only eeked out victories against two poor teams while getting wacked by a decent one.

 

[the taildragger]

It seems clear Tom isn't having the success he's enjoyed the last five years, at least early this season.

My question is to all those Pat fans that think Tom Brady was 90% responsible for the SB success of the past three SB's and labling him one of the best QB's ever, he seems quite normal and not very spectacular so far this season which leads me to believe it was more about the Pats as a team that won three SB's and not "God ol Brady".

As I've stated in previous threads, Brady was an important part of those SB's, but not any more important then any other part of the Pats "TEAM". There is no way Brady will ever be half the QB Dan Marino was and if Brady had to suffer through the years and teams Marino had Brady would not only never reach one single milestone Marino reached, but most definately never have a single SB.

Now before you people start crying, and looking to sling insults this thread was not intended to do so, it was intended to prove without the caliber of caoching and talent that Brady has had the fortune to have around him and the fans have had the pleasure of watching there would be no SB's rings in NE.

There are some fans here that are reasonable enough to understand that it took an entire team effort to win three SB's in 5 years, but they are few and far between. I still think the Pats are the best team in the division....for the moment, but I also believe the division is up for grabs. NE could very well turn it all around and start to pull away and win the division with ease, but they could also continue down this path of just plain average.

So before you Pat fans get your panties in a knot and think this was a smack thread, it's not! It's just a thread to say Football is a team sport and anyone here who thinks Brady was the main reason for the success in NE the last five seasons you should be shot as football fans, because there were a whole lotta good football players that played in NE the last five years that are getting little respect for their efforts. The reason Peyton Manning hasn't won a SB yet is because his entire team isn't good enough to win it all, it sure isn't because Peyton isn't good enough.

your boy would've gone 5-11 with the '01 Pats, much less won the SB.

last night proves what we've always known, if TB stinks up the joint (for whatever reason) we have ZERO chance...it only reinforces his value.

if you have any other impression of his worth to this team you are truly ignorant...though this is probably just a matter of Marino being your childhood hero or something. Personally, I think the guy was a great QB, which might put me in the minority on this board, but no way I'd replace the guy we have right now for anyone.

 

[feelthepain]

If anything I think Brady's struggles have proved how important he is to this team's success. Brady has not played very well the first three games, as a result the whole team has not played well and has only eeked out victories against two poor teams while getting wacked by a decent one.

See here's where I disagree, you have to have the talent around you to have success. The Pats can't continue to be the team with the most cap space and expect to win year in and year out. The Pats had a good thing with the players they had, they were very underated players, the more the Pats win the more money the players want!! It's a fair conclusion!! If you refuse to pay players and think you will continue to win SB's, it aint gonna happen.

BB is probably one the best in the business at spotting raw talent, but you can't expect that to work year in year out. Continuity has to count for something, if you let players build a relationship with each other especially on the O and then get rid of them, it will hurt your chances of success. Brady looks very angry and disappointed right now, and he should. I would say Brady's most defining characteristic in his ability to win on such a high level is his competeivness, hands down. He can't compete if he doesn't have the talent around him and it could break him, I don't meen to sound so dramtic, but it's important to Brady's success, IMO.

 

[feelthepain]

your boy would've gone 5-11 with the '01 Pats, much less won the SB.

last night proves what we've always known, if TB stinks up the joint (for whatever reason) we have ZERO chance...it only reinforces his value.

if you have any other impression of his worth to this team you are truly ignorant...though this is probably just a matter of Marino being your childhood hero or something. Personally, I think the guy was a great QB, which might put me in the minority on this board, but no way I'd replace the guy we have right now for anyone.

I disagree with this as well, it's a matter of adjusting your game plan to fit your strengths, right now your strength isn't throwing the ball. Against Buffalo you won because you ran the ball and made D adjustments at the half. If you continue to put the game in Brady's hands you will continue to lose, not because Brady isn't good enough, but because people don't respect your receivers!! Which in turn means teams will put more pressure on Brady and he will take more punishment.

 

[DocAdkinsDiet]

I disagree with this as well, it's a matter of adjusting your game plan to fit your strengths, right now your strength isn't throwing the ball. Against Buffalo you won because you ran the ball and made D adjustments at the half. If you continue to put the game in Brady's hands you will continue to lose, not because Brady isn't good enough, but because people don't respect your receivers!! Which in turn means teams will put more pressure on Brady and he will take more punishment.

Because our running game looked awesome last night.

 

[DocAdkinsDiet]

What we are missing is that Antwan Smith running game from the first Super Bowl. Cause that was really winning us games that year.

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

The Pats are 2 and 1, and Brady is 11th on the passing chart for yards. We have no recievers on the top 25, so whats your point? Honestly, looking at the history of the pats vs the broncs, all things fell into place.

Lets talk about this again in December when we have a much better sampling of whats happening.....

 

[feelthepain]

Because our running game looked awesome last night.

I don't think it looked awful, I think it needs to be the focus right now. Not every team will just roll over and let you win simply because you're the Pats. You in many ways have to work harder then the teams that no respects. So instead of thinking you have no running game you adjust your schemes and put more effort into it man on man. This is why I say the Pats could trun things around and win the division with ease, because BB adjusts well. The Pats have an extreme amount of talent in the running game. They need to adjust to become a run first team to set up the pass, they need to become the Pittsburgh Steelers, so to speak. Your D is good enough to win, your O is good enough to win, your philosophy and style aren't. 17 points only, to a very good Denver team?? That should have been a win last night for the Pats at home.

 

[pats1]

I don't think it looked awful, I think it needs to be the focus right now. Not every team will just roll over and let you win simply because you're the Pats. You in many ways have to work harder then the teams that no respects. So instead of thinking you have no running game you adjust your schemes and put more effort into it man on man. This is why I say the Pats could trun things around and win the division with ease, because BB adjusts well. The Pats have an extreme amount of talent in the running game. They need to adjust to become a run first team to set up the pass, they need to become the Pittsburgh Steelers, so to speak. Your D is good enough to win, your O is good enough to win, your philosophy and style aren't. 17 points only, to a very good Denver team?? That should have been a win last night.

I (gulp) agree completely with you. After this customary adjustment period, the Pats "should" be right back to normal.

See:

2003 Weeks 1 and 4, vs. Buffalo and Washington.

2004 Week 1 - takes multiple cough-ups in the red zone for the Colts and a Vanderjagt missed FG for the Pats to win.

2005 Weeks 2 and 4 - nasty losses to Carolina and San Diego.

 

[zippo59]

See here's where I disagree, you have to have the talent around you to have success. The Pats can't continue to be the team with the most cap space and expect to win year in and year out. The Pats had a good thing with the players they had, they were very underated players, the more the Pats win the more money the players want!! It's a fair conclusion!! If you refuse to pay players and think you will continue to win SB's, it aint gonna happen.

BB is probably one the best in the business at spotting raw talent, but you can't expect that to work year in year out. Continuity has to count for something, if you let players build a relationship with each other especially on the O and then get rid of them, it will hurt your chances of success. Brady looks very angry and disappointed right now, and he should. I would say Brady's most defining characteristic in his ability to win on such a high level is his competeivness, hands down. He can't compete if he doesn't have the talent around him and it could break him, I don't meen to sound so dramtic, but it's important to Brady's success, IMO.

While we won't know for sure for some time, I think the Pats have enough talent, specifically at receiver. Gabriel is big and fast, showing a little bit at the end of the game last night. He didn't get a lot of opportunities in Oakland but everything I've heard from the fans, Jerry Rice, and Randy Moss have been nothing that shouldn't make you excited about him. I think Reche Caldwell has played pretty well, he's not going to be a star and I didn't expect him to be. He just needs to contribute and be solid, which I think he has. Chad Jackson has looked impressive in the little time we have seen him and Troy is Troy. I don't think there is a personnel problem at WR, it is just a question of getting new guys and the guys who have been here used to each other and the offense, as well as getting the WR's healthy.

The WR's don't have to be as good as they were last year anyway because our running game and offensive line is much better, as well as the fact that we have what many think is the best group of TE's in the NFL.

 

[zippo59]

I don't think it looked awful, I think it needs to be the focus right now. Not every team will just roll over and let you win simply because you're the Pats. You in many ways have to work harder then the teams that no respects. So instead of thinking you have no running game you adjust your schemes and put more effort into it man on man. This is why I say the Pats could trun things around and win the division with ease, because BB adjusts well. The Pats have an extreme amount of talent in the running game. They need to adjust to become a run first team to set up the pass, they need to become the Pittsburgh Steelers, so to speak. Your D is good enough to win, your O is good enough to win, your philosophy and style aren't. 17 points only, to a very good Denver team?? That should have been a win last night for the Pats at home.

I also completely agree with you on this. This year's offense has different strengths and weaknesses than last years and I think Brady and the coaching staff has yet to adjust their playcalling and gameplaning to fit it.

 

[feelthepain]

Brady and the coaching staff has yet to adjust their playcalling and gameplaning to fit it.

Yes it could very well be the problem with the Pats...not like 2-1 is a problem, but it hasn't been pretty. I will say this, don't be surprised if it doesn't happen, one of the reasons the Pats have won so much is desire to prove something, every year that goes by that desire is tougher to find, with the team as a whole. All i'm saying is their is a lot of little things that make a team dominant, lose any one or a combination of those little things and the job becomes much tougher.

 

[CheerforTom]

It seems clear Tom isn't having the success he's enjoyed the last five years, at least early this season.

My question is to all those Pat fans that think Tom Brady was 90% responsible for the SB success of the past three SB's and labling him one of the best QB's ever, he seems quite normal and not very spectacular so far this season which leads me to believe it was more about the Pats as a team that won three SB's and not "God ol Brady".

As I've stated in previous threads, Brady was an important part of those SB's, but not any more important then any other part of the Pats "TEAM". There is no way Brady will ever be half the QB Dan Marino was and if Brady had to suffer through the years and teams Marino had Brady would not only never reach one single milestone Marino reached, but most definately never have a single SB.

Now before you people start crying, and looking to sling insults this thread was not intended to do so, it was intended to prove without the caliber of caoching and talent that Brady has had the fortune to have around him and the fans have had the pleasure of watching there would be no SB's rings in NE.

There are some fans here that are reasonable enough to understand that it took an entire team effort to win three SB's in 5 years, but they are few and far between. I still think the Pats are the best team in the division....for the moment, but I also believe the division is up for grabs. NE could very well turn it all around and start to pull away and win the division with ease, but they could also continue down this path of just plain average.

So before you Pat fans get your panties in a knot and think this was a smack thread, it's not! It's just a thread to say Football is a team sport and anyone here who thinks Brady was the main reason for the success in NE the last five seasons you should be shot as football fans, because there were a whole lotta good football players that played in NE the last five years that are getting little respect for their efforts. The reason Peyton Manning hasn't won a SB yet is because his entire team isn't good enough to win it all, it sure isn't because Peyton isn't good enough.

See: Last season, when Brady had an injured line, TEs, WRs and RB to work with, not to mention being injured himself (the same injury sidelined McNabb), and still threw for the most yards in the NFL while almost taking us to the Super Bowl AGAIN (I'll always hold that if we'd beaten Denver we would've won it all). That's Brady, not the mediocre guy we saw yesterday.

 

[PonyExpress]

I disagree with this as well, it's a matter of adjusting your game plan to fit your strengths, right now your strength isn't throwing the ball. Against Buffalo you won because you ran the ball and made D adjustments at the half. If you continue to put the game in Brady's hands you will continue to lose, not because Brady isn't good enough, but because people don't respect your receivers!! Which in turn means teams will put more pressure on Brady and he will take more punishment.

What's it like cheering for a Qb with a peg-leg? When will Ronnie Brown average 3 yard per carry in a game? When will Chris "manos de piedra" Chambers catch a clutch pass in a meaningful game? Go crawl back into the slime you came from. By year's end you'll be weeping and we'll be dancing on your team's fresh grave.

 

[feelthepain]

See: Last season, when Brady had an injured line, TEs, WRs and RB to work with, not to mention being injured himself (the same injury sidelined McNabb), and still threw for the most yards in the NFL while almost taking us to the Super Bowl AGAIN (I'll always hold that if we'd beaten Denver we would've won it all). That's Brady, not the mediocre guy we saw yesterday.

Who did Brady have last year he doesn't have this year?? Brady threw the ball 55 times last night, it was the lack of talent for the gameplan. Brady isn't magic, it's a combination of may things, the more things you lose, the tougher it is to win. NE's strength is now running, lets see how they adjust.

 

[zippo59]

What's it like cheering for a Qb with a peg-leg? When will Ronnie Brown average 3 yard per carry in a game? When will Chris "manos de piedra" Chambers catch a clutch pass in a meaningful game? Go crawl back into the slime you came from. By year's end you'll be weeping and we'll be dancing on your team's fresh grave.

Why are you being a jerk to an oppossing teams fan who is doing nothing but rationaly and respectfully discussing football?

 

[PonyExpress]

Who did Brady have last year he doesn't have this year?? Brady threw the ball 55 times, it was the lack of talent for the gameplan. Brady isn't magic, it's a combination of may things, the more things you loser the tougher it is to win. NE strength is now running, lets see how they adjust.

Speaking of Qbs: how about the most overrated choker of all time "Dumb" Dan Marino? It's great when a hometown hero goes out in a blaze of glory... what was it 63-7? I watched every play glorying in that fraud's demise. Funny though... that playoff game was probably the team's highlight since 1982. Now dandy Dan makes a laughingstock of his intellect every Sunday. And you wonder why he never won a SB? The guy couldn't count to 20 by even numbers. You think he could decipher a big league defense? Miami has a sad history. Go back and glory in it in your Mom's basement.

 

[PonyExpress]

Why are you being a jerk to an oppossing teams fan who is doing nothing but rationaly and respectfully discussing football?

Reread his opening post and if you find anything reasonable in it go f--k yourself.

 

[zippo59]

Reread his opening post and if you find anything reasonable in it go f--k yourself.

We're both bummed about how the team played last night, but you need to chill.