Players Union doesn't want Human Growth Hormone Blood test

[JoeSixPat]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/09/AR2006060901401.html


Take a deep breath boys and girls... amid all the focus on baseball and HGH, there's bound to be a backlash effect on the NFL.

I've long felt that we've been very naive to think that NFL and College players - with so much $ to gain, would voluntarilly refrain from using something like HGH

I even have some suspicions about some members of the Patriots and whether they've used HGH (the leading contender having now retired, I'm interested to see if he maintains his neckless physique)

I suspect you'll be seeing and hearing more about HGH in the NFL in the coming months.

 

[Koettbulle]

"When you start talking about coming in to take a person's blood, that's different than taking someone's urine," Upshaw said. "I know personally I would have a problem with someone coming in and trying to take the players' blood. I'm not ready to make that leap."

Upshaw and league officials said they're hopeful that a reliable urine test for growth hormone will be developed.



They are just afraid of what the test would prove, 99% of the players would probably get busted.

 

[Mike the Brit]

**** Pound, head of the worldwide anti-doping organization WADA, talks with CBC Sports Online about the campaign to clean up sports.

CBC Sports Online | Jan. 19, 2003

... What I would say to [Gene] Upshaw is, "Have you seen these lions now in football?" Have you seen this? They're averaging 285 [lbs] and they have superhuman strength. I don't think they got that way simply by eating ma's porridge.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/drugs/stories/qa_dickpound.html

 

[Pats726]

I am not sure that would be the case..there are many side effects of HGH and according to a Tom Curran article of last year, includes acromegaly, overgrowth of joints, enlarged heart, blood pressiure problems, growth of hands, feet and jaws. There are also problems testing it..not only is it present in small amounts, it also passes through the system quickly. I really don't think 99% of the players use it, but I am sure some do. The bust last year of a doctor the Panthers had used was for sterioids, but HGH was also given to the players. The league needs to do somethingl I am not sure what kind of test if any may help the situation.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I must admit - I wasn't even aware there was a blood test. I would think you would need an individual baseline of HGH in someone's blood in the first place to determine that they were supplementing their natural amount.

Perhaps there's a limit on how much HGH someone could or should have, irregardless of their natural baseline?

In any event, while the NFL apparently has done a decent job when it comes to steroids, the temptation to use an untestable substance like HGH is just too great when the stakes are tens of millions of dollars.

There are plenty of guys we're all familiar with who just have seemingly unnatural physiques, and its sad to say that with the law of averages we have and have had some on our team.

 

[sdaniels7114]

I don't think there is a universally-accepted test for HGH. I could be wrong though.

Andre the Giant is an innocent example of excessive HGH in one's body. His came naturally and I guess the docs couldn't stop his body from over-producing it. He was a monster, but died pretty young.

I wonder if there's a threapudic dose of that drug? Something higher than what your body produces naturally, but not high enough to make you look like Andre or give you any other negative side effects. Would something like that be improper or would it just be an extra-strong vitamin? Could something be bannable if it only turned you into a physical freak but didn't hurt you?

 

[Pats726]

I don't think there is a universally-accepted test for HGH. I could be wrong though.

Andre the Giant is an innocent example of excessive HGH in one's body. His came naturally and I guess the docs couldn't stop his body from over-producing it. He was a monster, but died pretty young.

I wonder if there's a threapudic dose of that drug? Something higher than what your body produces naturally, but not high enough to make you look like Andre or give you any other negative side effects. Would something like that be improper or would it just be an extra-strong vitamin? Could something be bannable if it only turned you into a physical freak but didn't hurt you?

There are some who do not naturally have HGH in their system..pituitary gland problems and other defects or diseases..and guving them HGH helps make them normal. For others, there are side effects...and ones that are not pleasant. I don't know about any research into that..but I don't think it is very healthy..nor good to promote its use. I think it could be bannable if it gave a player an extra advantage; the worst though is the side effects...later in life with parts of their organs and other body parts enlarged.
Really not healthy at all..but the problem is that might one take it just a bit..for a season..to get into tthe NFL..to get a big contract or?? Is it worth the risk?? ANd it is NOT easily detectable either..not essily found.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I don't think there is a universally-accepted test for HGH. I could be wrong though.

Andre the Giant is an innocent example of excessive HGH in one's body. His came naturally and I guess the docs couldn't stop his body from over-producing it. He was a monster, but died pretty young.

I wonder if there's a threapudic dose of that drug? Something higher than what your body produces naturally, but not high enough to make you look like Andre or give you any other negative side effects. Would something like that be improper or would it just be an extra-strong vitamin? Could something be bannable if it only turned you into a physical freak but didn't hurt you?

There is a therapuetic dose... usually for kids short of stature who don't have enough HGH and would be under 5 feet tall otherwise

There are also designer HGH types of hormones out there too

They exist because they do have value for certain people - and are abused by athletes in many sports

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

I wonder why they can't test a hair sample? Hair is supposed to tell everything you have ever done. Maybe HGH passes through you too fast for a hair sample?

I think that all players of all sports should be kept clean, if possible. These hormones really screw up your body in the long run, and it just isn't worth having these Barry Bonds types with freak oversized heads and fake records built on cheating.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I wonder why they can't test a hair sample? Hair is supposed to tell everything you have ever done. Maybe HGH passes through you too fast for a hair sample?

I think that all players of all sports should be kept clean, if possible. These hormones really screw up your body in the long run, and it just isn't worth having these Barry Bonds types with freak oversized heads and fake records built on cheating.

My basic understanding is that everyone has HGH in their bodies, and to know whether someone is supplementing that you'd need to know what their "natural" baseline is.

 

[Mike the Brit]

http://www.abc.net.au/sport/content/200408/s1175436.htm

Last Update: Thursday, August 12, 2004. 8:08pm AEST
WADA confirms Olympic test for growth hormone

World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) president **** Pound has confirmed there would be a test for human growth hormone (HGH) at the Athens Olympics.
"We have a test," Mr Pound told a news conference.
"The parameters of the test, we are keeping to ourselves. If there are people taking this we are going to be able to find them."
HGH is used by the medical profession to promote normal growth and misused by athletes to stimulate muscle and tissue growth.
There has never been an effective test prior to the Games.
Mr Pound also said there was already a comprehensive out-of-competition, dope-testing program in operation at the Games.
Asked how many tests would be conducted, he replied: "It's in the hundreds".
Kenyan boxer David Munyasia, who has been thrown out of the Games after testing positive for a recreational drug, failed one of these tests.
-- Reuters

The WADA isn't perfect -- nothing will be -- but it's by far the most serious anti-doping program that there has ever been. Any sport that is serious about drugs should sign up to its standards; if it doesn't it isn't, in my opinion.

 

[smg93]

The problem with the WADA test is they are hiding their testing parameters. In order for tests to be acceptable, they must be scrutinized and through these examinations, show what the tests strengths and weaknesses are. The last thing you want to do is have someone test a false positive and ruin his or her career because of it. At the very least, it puts doubt on an athlete's accomplishments. Even today, Lance Armstrong is still being hounded by these accusations but none of these accusers have proven beyond reasonable doubt that he has taken an illegal substance.

Until a test can be made that accurately judges whether an athlete is cheating or not (and these tests must be open to scrutineering) then no tests should be administered at this point in the interest of fairness to all athletes. Ironic isn't it.

 

[patriotsrule]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/09/AR2006060901401.html


Take a deep breath boys and girls... amid all the focus on baseball and HGH, there's bound to be a backlash effect on the NFL.

I've long felt that we've been very naive to think that NFL and College players - with so much $ to gain, would voluntarilly refrain from using something like HGH

I even have some suspicions about some members of the Patriots and whether they've used HGH (the leading contender having now retired, I'm interested to see if he maintains his neckless physique)

I suspect you'll be seeing and hearing more about HGH in the NFL in the coming months.

I played Division III college football years ago and most of the players on that team took steroids. If that's the case at the Division III level, you can only imagine what it would be in the NFL. The NFL has been getting a free pass because of baseball but when you say you don't want to test for HGH, basically your saying we still want to take steroids because HGH is the most powerful steroid out on the market today. If you're not going to test for the steroid that everyone is using, the rest is all a bunch of window dressing.

 

[Pats726]

I played Division III college football years ago and most of the players on that team took steroids. If that's the case at the Division III level, you can only imagine what it would be in the NFL. The NFL has been getting a free pass because of baseball but when you say you don't want to test for HGH, basically your saying we still want to take steroids because HGH is the most powerful steroid out on the market today. If you're not going to test for the steroid that everyone is using, the rest is all a bunch of window dressing.

Are you saying that HGH is a steroid??? I am not sure that is correct..I don't they are chemically similar..where's Mr Wizard when you need some info...

 

[JoeSixPat]

Are you saying that HGH is a steroid??? I am not sure that is correct..I don't they are chemically similar..where's Mr Wizard when you need some info...

I don't want to speak for patriotsrule, but I think what he meant is that HGH is the "ultimate" steroid in that in provides for unnatural growth/strength

Chemically Steroids, as I understand it, primarilly help muscle tissue repair themelves and regenerate quicker, allowing for increased muscle bulk and mass

HGH allows players to get bigger and stronger faster, but in a different way than steroids

"Steroids" have almost become a generic term for any form of illegal and unnatural growth supplement and there's almost no need for anyone to make a disctinction in the eyes of the public - its all cheating

 

[patriotsrule]

I don't want to speak for patriotsrule, but I think what he meant is that HGH is the "ultimate" steroid in that in provides for unnatural growth/strength

Chemically Steroids, as I understand it, primarilly help muscle tissue repair themelves and regenerate quicker, allowing for increased muscle bulk and mass

HGH allows players to get bigger and stronger faster, but in a different way than steroids

"Steroids" have almost become a generic term for any form of illegal and unnatural growth supplement and there's almost no need for anyone to make a disctinction in the eyes of the public - its all cheating

Yes, thanks, that is what I meant. I didn't mean that HGH was technically a "steroid," I meant it was the most powerful strength and muscle building illegal supplement available today. Of course, this is all a moot point. Once they find a way to test for HGH, there will just be something new that pops up out there. I guess the best thing sports can do is try and eliminate each substance one at at a time but there will always be something people can take.

 

[milwaukeebeers44]

Another facet to this whole debate is invasive testing vs. non-invasive testing. Testing the blood is considered invasive, according to medical ethicists, because it can involve considerable trauma for some people (there is an actual diagnosable illness called "needle trauma"- of course, those aren't the people that would be shooting HGH). There would be no "opt out" clause, which is unprecedented because even with mandatory newborn screening tests, there is a way for a parent to opt out, on the basis of religious or other objections (same thing for mandatory childhood vaccinations). The only other group that has this kind of mandatory blood testing is the military (HIV).

If an HGH blood testing were to be implemented in any of the major sports, it would no doubt be challenged all the way to the Supreme Court. MLB, NHL, NFL, NBA, etc are all employers in the strictest sense of the word, and this would be an unprecedented move by an employer. It would cause employees of drug testing companies and parents of children in high school and lower level sports to scream about their civil rights being violated.

Urine testing is considered non-invasive, because it is excreted normally as part of every day life.

And by "invasive vs. non-invasive," I mean invading on the body, not necessarily on a person's right to privacy (which is a whole 'nother can of worms involved in this debate).

 

[Pats726]

Another facet to this whole debate is invasive testing vs. non-invasive testing. Testing the blood is considered invasive, according to medical ethicists, because it can involve considerable trauma for some people (there is an actual diagnosable illness called "needle trauma"- of course, those aren't the people that would be shooting HGH). There would be no "opt out" clause, which is unprecedented because even with mandatory newborn screening tests, there is a way for a parent to opt out, on the basis of religious or other objections (same thing for mandatory childhood vaccinations). The only other group that has this kind of mandatory blood testing is the military (HIV).

If an HGH blood testing were to be implemented in any of the major sports, it would no doubt be challenged all the way to the Supreme Court. MLB, NHL, NFL, NBA, etc are all employers in the strictest sense of the word, and this would be an unprecedented move by an employer. It would cause employees of drug testing companies and parents of children in high school and lower level sports to scream about their civil rights being violated.

Urine testing is considered non-invasive, because it is excreted normally as part of every day life.

And by "invasive vs. non-invasive," I mean invading on the body, not necessarily on a person's right to privacy (which is a whole 'nother can of worms involved in this debate).

I agree that the blood vs urine is a big issue and I don't think any sports will push for that. Whether they can develop a test for HGH is a difficult one..because of the small amount present as well as timing issues. HGH goes through the body in a day or two...Olympic testing is a bit different in that there is a windown for the event..while for a team over a many month season, it may be harder to stop.
There are many issues here and not any easy solutions...

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

the leading contender having now retired, I'm interested to see if he maintains his neckless physique

If you don't mind - who are you talking about ? The ex-Patriot I think of when referred to as "neckless" is Rohan Davey but you're obviously talking about someone else.

 

[smg93]

If you don't mind - who are you talking about ? The ex-Patriot I think of when referred to as "neckless" is Rohan Davey but you're obviously talking about someone else.

I was actually thinking it might be the run stuffer specialist who retired last year. Am I right?