Pessimistic note as to whether Brian Waters will return

[MoLewisrocks]

The more I think about this the more I think there was an understanding but it might have been a lot more layered than a simple no problem, as long as you perform well here in 2011 we won't push for TC attendance which we know you prefer to limit. There could be some contractual promises (at least of discussion) that were also contingent on his 2011 performance and there could have been some we want to see what else we've got before we commit to enhancing those. Not to mention both sides agreeing to rope a dope the media until they hash those out. He certainly out earned the entire deal last season. And Bill certainly has seemed committed to the concept of Cannon playing as a tackle. While Connolly has gotten the majority of his reps at RG and Koppen has been given every opportunity to prove he can still play the position.

I can't imagine they would sweeten the pot before seeing Waters in the flesh, though. Not necessarily in a game situation, but in half a dozen practices prior to week 1. Or it could be they simply want him back at the value rate he's signed for and decided to sweeten the pot by simply waiving something he was adverse to to begin with, TC, as a means to improving the chances he wouldn't ask for more and would simply honor the deal he signed and show up when the batphone rings. He didn't need camp reps like the youngsters on the OL did. Or like a first year FA like Gallery did (and we know how that ended).

Either way I do think he needs to be in house at least a week or 10 days before the season opener just so they can go over any changes and he can get some reps with his linemates in practice. Last season he came in cold days before the open and nailed it, but he was a man on a mission - motivated to prove Pioli was wrong about his decline. Players don't always muster that kind of motivation in successive years at his age. I have no doubt he believes he can because if he didn't he'd have pulled his own plug by now. And the Pats obviously believe he might just be able to or they'd have moved on in the off season and viewed him as nothing more than possible depth. Hopefully a shot at a ring on a team that almost snagged another last season is motivation enough this time out.

Still, the fact none of this is a given just over two weeks before the season opener remains a bit troubling for us fans who crave relative certainty on what constitutes 1-11 on both sides of the ball long before it's time to face an opponent in a game that matters. I just think that BB has shifted a bit in the other direction over the last 5 seasons and come to terms with the fact that while football players play football sometimes their reps and effort have to be managed lest you burn them out before you need them at their best. Rules like you don't practice you don't play have even ceased to be etched in stone.

 

[BradyManny]

Actually, Belichick has made allowances for older veterans to come in late in the past. My mind has gone blank for the moment, but I'll try to recall those players.....

Burgess, off the top of my head. Obviously, that one didn't work out too well.

Locker still intact + recent history of avoiding camp = he's coming back.

 

[IllegalContact]

he only signed a contract with the pats on 9/4 last year and still had a probowl season......given that the guys on both sides of him stand to be the same, as long as he is in shape, he can show up a couple of days before week 1 game and he'll be fine......

not even thinking about this

 

[patfanken]

He's coming. Its as simple a that.

1. You do not get up off the couch one morning in mid August and decide that your are going to play football this fall. There are a few MONTHS of preparation that are necessary at a minimum. He's either prepared on not prepared. There is no middle ground. no indecision

2. If he wasn't coming back, they there is no need to go through this charade. You simply make an announcement. Tears all around.....and go home. That hasn't happened.

3. The guy played about 98% pf the offensive snaps last season. That's 19 games....all at a high level. So I guess he can play, and he knows what he has to do to play. TC is probably NOT a good idea for a guy him, when you consider the long season. When we get to the Playoffs, whoever we play will have an excellent pass rush. We will need Brian Waters at the top of his game, not struggling to make it just one more.

Again, if anyone REALLY wanted to know for sure, all you'd have to do is check his dryer. Sweat pants and jocks,and he'll be here next week. Golf shirts and swim trunks and sayonara.

 

[The Gr8est]

The more I think about this the more I think there was an understanding but it might have been a lot more layered than a simple no problem, as long as you perform well here in 2011 we won't push for TC attendance which we know you prefer to limit. There could be some contractual promises (at least of discussion) that were also contingent on his 2011 performance and there could have been some we want to see what else we've got before we commit to enhancing those. Not to mention both sides agreeing to rope a dope the media until they hash those out. He certainly out earned the entire deal last season. And Bill certainly has seemed committed to the concept of Cannon playing as a tackle. While Connolly has gotten the majority of his reps at RG and Koppen has been given every opportunity to prove he can still play the position.

I can't imagine they would sweeten the pot before seeing Waters in the flesh, though. Not necessarily in a game situation, but in half a dozen practices prior to week 1. Or it could be they simply want him back at the value rate he's signed for and decided to sweeten the pot by simply waiving something he was adverse to to begin with, TC, as a means to improving the chances he wouldn't ask for more and would simply honor the deal he signed and show up when the batphone rings. He didn't need camp reps like the youngsters on the OL did. Or like a first year FA like Gallery did (and we know how that ended).

Either way I do think he needs to be in house at least a week or 10 days before the season opener just so they can go over any changes and he can get some reps with his linemates in practice. Last season he came in cold days before the open and nailed it, but he was a man on a mission - motivated to prove Pioli was wrong about his decline. Players don't always muster that kind of motivation in successive years at his age. I have no doubt he believes he can because if he didn't he'd have pulled his own plug by now. And the Pats obviously believe he might just be able to or they'd have moved on in the off season and viewed him as nothing more than possible depth. Hopefully a shot at a ring on a team that almost snagged another last season is motivation enough this time out.

Still, the fact none of this is a given just over two weeks before the season opener remains a bit troubling for us fans who crave relative certainty on what constitutes 1-11 on both sides of the ball long before it's time to face an opponent in a game that matters. I just think that BB has shifted a bit in the other direction over the last 5 seasons and come to terms with the fact that while football players play football sometimes their reps and effort have to be managed lest you burn them out before you need them at their best. Rules like you don't practice you don't play have even ceased to be etched in stone.

While I hope Waters shows up and plays this year, I'd bet that I am in the majority when I say that I hope this Waters' LAST year with the Pats.

We don't need crap like this. We need to know what we have as a team.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

While I hope Waters shows up and plays this year, I'd bet that I am in the majority when I say that I hope this Waters' LAST year with the Pats.

We don't need crap like this. We need to know what we have as a team.

No, we don't. Bill does. And he knows whether they show up for camp or not there are no guarantees. That's why he amasses some of the depth fans cringe at as opposed to just investing in collecting all the eilte talent he can afford to be starters. He's a team builder, not a talent collector. Fantasy football has created this need among many fans to build a paper roster that projects statistical domination which is all that matters in that "game". NFL football is a whole other "game". If he can still play the position at a high level this season for a value price, come 2013 Bill will want him back - including on the same terms. Fans should too. Gives the team flexibility to fill gaps elsewhere in a timely fashion.

 

[BradyManny]

While I hope Waters shows up and plays this year, I'd bet that I am in the majority when I say that I hope this Waters' LAST year with the Pats.

We don't need crap like this. We need to know what we have as a team.

The guy signed a few days before the regular season last year - without any camp or offseason at all - and was our best offensive lineman, performing at a Pro Bowl level. Bill will make exceptions when it helps the team. Waters helps the team. I could care less if he misses camp if he is going to perform the way he did last year.

 

[aluminum seats]

The guy signed a few days before the regular season last year - without any camp or offseason at all - and was our best offensive lineman, performing at a Pro Bowl level. Bill will make exceptions when it helps the team. Waters helps the team. I could care less if he misses camp if he is going to perform the way he did last year.

I suppose, but there's a bit of a slippery slope there. Of course we trust Belichick to handle things better than anyone, but it does at least raise the possibility of other guys saying, "I hate camp too--see you in September." Not great.

 

[BradyManny]

I suppose, but there's a bit of a slippery slope there. Of course we trust Belichick to handle things better than anyone, but it does at least raise the possibility of other guys saying, "I hate camp too--see you in September." Not great.

Absolutely - but I think that's why the Patriots are so cryptic on the situation. They are not being open about what is going on here, because they don't want to establish that precedence.

But the fact is - Bill takes every situation case-by-case. If another player tried to pull what Waters is doing, maybe Bill tells that player to go screw. He treated Randy Moss differently than he treats Tom Brady. He treats every player, every negotiation, every contract dispute, every holdout, anything and everything slightly differently. And it's all based on what he sees is best fit for that specific situation.

It's cliched, but it's true - Belichick does whatever is best for the team. Every time. He's that consistent. It may lead to what seems like inconsistent behavior to some, but fundamentally it's just that his principles are higher level than "I won't let a player hold me hostage" or "I won't let a player skip camp and get away with it." His only principle is "I'll do what helps the team win."

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I suppose, but there's a bit of a slippery slope there. Of course we trust Belichick to handle things better than anyone, but it does at least raise the possibility of other guys saying, "I hate camp too--see you in September." Not great.

That never happened back in BB's 1st years here when he let Roman Phifer skip camp. Rings followed.

 

[BPF]

Cleaning out joint practice notebook - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston



Time IS getting short for him to practice and so on.

And if he's not on the Opening Day roster because he came to camp too late, then he stayed out too long.

Coaches only worry about the players they have to work with.....I would not read anything to his comments.