Patriots Had 10 Men on the Field on ST Again Sunday Night

[Ian]

Missing.Player gets his second snap of the season.

Happened with 9:37 on a Bills FG attempt:

Personnel on the FG at 9:37 in Q2:
J.Farmer | A.Jennings | Ja.Tavai | D.Pettus | A.Austin | C.Elliss | K.Tonga | Missing.Player | K.White | J.Gibbens | B.Schooler

On the next Bills' Extra point, it looks like it was Spillane who was missing based on the personnel:

Personnel on the XP at 9:21 in Q3
J.Farmer | A.Jennings | Ja.Tavai | D.Pettus | A.Austin | C.Elliss | K.Tonga | R.Spillane | K.White | J.Gibbens | B.Schooler

 

[Ian]

Snapshot of the play via NFL+:

 

[Ian]

Special teams snaps have been applied. They didn't update the first time:

2025 Patriots Snap Counts

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[n1997y]

Missing.Player gets his second snap of the season.

Happened with 9:37 on a Bills FG attempt:

Personnel on the FG at 9:37 in Q2:
J.Farmer | A.Jennings | Ja.Tavai | D.Pettus | A.Austin | C.Elliss | K.Tonga | Missing.Player | K.White | J.Gibbens | B.Schooler

On the next Bills' Extra point, it looks like it was Spillane who was missing based on the personnel:

Personnel on the XP at 9:21 in Q3
J.Farmer | A.Jennings | Ja.Tavai | D.Pettus | A.Austin | C.Elliss | K.Tonga | R.Spillane | K.White | J.Gibbens | B.Schooler

Schooler needs to be schooled on counting to eleven

 

[PP2]

Missing.Player gets his second snap of the season.

Happened with 9:37 on a Bills FG attempt:

Personnel on the FG at 9:37 in Q2:
J.Farmer | A.Jennings | Ja.Tavai | D.Pettus | A.Austin | C.Elliss | K.Tonga | Missing.Player | K.White | J.Gibbens | B.Schooler

On the next Bills' Extra point, it looks like it was Spillane who was missing based on the personnel:

Personnel on the XP at 9:21 in Q3
J.Farmer | A.Jennings | Ja.Tavai | D.Pettus | A.Austin | C.Elliss | K.Tonga | R.Spillane | K.White | J.Gibbens | B.Schooler

I knew you would catch that. That's 3 games in a row.

 

[PP2]

Schooler needs to be schooled on counting to eleven

There are failsafes built in, and all of them failed. 1) Springer, 2) Quinn, then 3) Schooler.

 

[Pape]

these were the personnel groupings for the two buffalo field goal attempts, in the 2nd & 4th quarters...



It certainly does look like Spillane missed the down... half of me hopes he has a playing time incentive in his contract he misses by one play...

brightside take: at least he missed it in the 2nd, not the 4th quarter... if the bills picked up on it, 10 men on the field could be ripe for exploitation with a trick play / fake fg...

if it keeps happening though, someone will pick up on it and take advantage

 

[UGAPatsfan]

Wasn’t Spillane the one who was absent last time also? Some sort of poor communication

 

[signbabybrady]

If this keeps happening some teams going to catch us and run a fake.

 

[Joey007]

Missing.Player gets his second snap of the season.

Happened with 9:37 on a Bills FG attempt:

Personnel on the FG at 9:37 in Q2:
J.Farmer | A.Jennings | Ja.Tavai | D.Pettus | A.Austin | C.Elliss | K.Tonga | Missing.Player | K.White | J.Gibbens | B.Schooler

On the next Bills' Extra point, it looks like it was Spillane who was missing based on the personnel:

Personnel on the XP at 9:21 in Q3
J.Farmer | A.Jennings | Ja.Tavai | D.Pettus | A.Austin | C.Elliss | K.Tonga | R.Spillane | K.White | J.Gibbens | B.Schooler

Stuff like this is why I don’t see any game as an “automatic” win just yet.

Even if I think we’re much better than a lot of these upcoming opponents, we still make too many mental mistakes. That can bring your opponent back into any game. Definitely had a few that could’ve lost the game Sunday night.

 

[raduray]

Wasn’t Spillane the one who was absent last time also? Some sort of poor communication

Isn't the kick defense squad defined ahead of time? I mean, it can't be like the coach deciding at the last minute who to send out there, can it?

 

[UGAPatsfan]

Isn't the kick defense squad defined ahead of time? I mean, it can't be like the coach deciding at the last minute who to send out there, can it?

Theoretically it could IF Spillane is a supersub backup , or if they have separate units for different types of FG blocks but most likely, dude might be an idiot and just keep forgetting to go out.

It is also not totally impossible that Vrabel is playing some sort of weird long-head game for some reason though I can’t see why.

 

[NormZauchin]

Impressive. We can beat the Bills with ten players on defense. We should be able to beat the Jets with only eight or nine players on defense.

 

[PP2]

Isn't the kick defense squad defined ahead of time? I mean, it can't be like the coach deciding at the last minute who to send out there, can it?

There may be the occasional tweak to the game plan on a week to week basis to optimize matchups, but Springer is responsible for putting together a coherent gameplan that clearly defines roles, on the ST board for the week's game. He's also responsible for drilling the ST to act clear-headed in moments of complete chaos and rushing on/off the field. Quinn is responsible for sideline head count, last minute subs (injury, etc) and player prep, and either Schooler or the upback is responsible for on-field head count for FG unit, and the primary returner is responsible for on-field head count for PR or KR unit. But ultimately it falls upon Springer for failing to instill discipline.

Back in the day, Edelman was so scared of screwing this up he would literally count like a schoolboy by pointing at every player.

 

[n1997y]

Maybe it’s Spillane who is supposed to do the counting?

 

[Ian]

Isn't the kick defense squad defined ahead of time? I mean, it can't be like the coach deciding at the last minute who to send out there, can it?

You would think that should be the case, and it's certainly easier when they stay the same. But two units changed on Sunday when White got hurt, although I don't really get what happened on that one, given that it was essentially the exact same group as the extra point defense.

The extra point defense saw Ponder come in for White, and Mapu was out there for one of them in place of Ellis, which was weird because Ellis came back out with the field goal defense, and it was essentially the same group.

Meanwhile, Westover came in for White on the Patriots' extra point team (when they kicked theirs), and Ponder came in for White on the extra point defensive group after the one where Spillane was back out there. It was odd.

But this was also the first game so far this season where Milton Williams wasn't out there on special teams. He had been out there through the first four weeks on the field goal defense, the extra point defense, and that group that they used to try to block punts and just have bigger personnel out there (Vrabel called it the "grey team" - it's labeled "Punt Block Team" in the snaps page.

 

[Pape]

to your point @Ian :
the Field Goal Block Units from all 11 FGBU reps this year...


100%: Core Unit Players: Brenden Schooler, Jack Gibbens, Dell Pettus, Christian Ellis, Robert Spillane, K’Lavon Chaisson (Up until Buffalo, he missed the game)

The rest of the squad
Buffalo
Joshua Farmer, Anfernee Jennings, Jahlani Tavai, Alex Austin, Khyiris Tonga, Missing.Player, Keion White,
Joshua Farmer, Anfernee Jennings, Jahlani Tavai, Alex Austin, Khyiris Tonga, Elijah Ponder,

Carolina
Joshua Farmer, Craig Woodson, Khyiris Tonga, Charles Woods, Keion White,

Pittsburgh
Milton Williams, , Craig Woodson, Khyiris Tonga, Charles Woods, Keion White,

Miami
Joshua Farmer, Craig Woodson, Khyiris Tonga, Charles Woods, Anfernee Jennings,
Milton Williams, , Craig Woodson, Christian Barmore, Charles Woods, Anfernee Jennings,
Milton Williams, Kyle Dugger, Khyiris Tonga, Charles Woods, Anfernee Jennings,

Las Vegas
(x4 v LAR) Milton Williams, Craig Woodson, Corey Ballentine, Christian Barmore, Keion White,

--------
I couldn't figure out how to get the detailed substitutions for the FGBU... but some of the subs are apparent... Like Tavai for Chaisson, Farmer for either Williams/Barmore, Tonga for either Williams/Barmore...

It certainly looks like Spillane missed the snap in the Bills game based on his level of participation throughout the season...

 

[Water Boy]

Springer needs to clean this up

 

[Ian]

to your point @Ian :
the Field Goal Block Units from all 11 FGBU reps this year...


100%: Core Unit Players: Brenden Schooler, Jack Gibbens, Dell Pettus, Christian Ellis, Robert Spillane, K’Lavon Chaisson (Up until Buffalo, he missed the game)

The rest of the squad
Buffalo
Joshua Farmer, Anfernee Jennings, Jahlani Tavai, Alex Austin, Khyiris Tonga, Missing.Player, Keion White,
Joshua Farmer, Anfernee Jennings, Jahlani Tavai, Alex Austin, Khyiris Tonga, Elijah Ponder,

Carolina
Joshua Farmer, Craig Woodson, Khyiris Tonga, Charles Woods, Keion White,

Pittsburgh
Milton Williams, , Craig Woodson, Khyiris Tonga, Charles Woods, Keion White,

Miami
Joshua Farmer, Craig Woodson, Khyiris Tonga, Charles Woods, Anfernee Jennings,
Milton Williams, , Craig Woodson, Christian Barmore, Charles Woods, Anfernee Jennings,
Milton Williams, Kyle Dugger, Khyiris Tonga, Charles Woods, Anfernee Jennings,

Las Vegas
(x4 v LAR) Milton Williams, Craig Woodson, Corey Ballentine, Christian Barmore, Keion White,

--------
I couldn't figure out how to get the detailed substitutions for the FGBU... but some of the subs are apparent... Like Tavai for Chaisson, Farmer for either Williams/Barmore, Tonga for either Williams/Barmore...

It certainly looks like Spillane missed the snap in the Bills game based on his level of participation throughout the season...

The substitutions are only within the drive, unfortunately, so these aren't included in those because those plays aren't counted by the league in the drive charts.

I do have to add a caption to these that shows the game, qtr, and timestamp to each of the groupings to try and make things a little clearer (like right now, unless you toggle them game-by-game, you don't know which one they're from). And maybe I'll also add something to toggle the differences between the previous units. It's obviously a work-in-progress, but I'll definitely keep adding to it.

 

[Pape]

The substitutions are only within the drive, unfortunately, so these aren't included in those because those plays aren't counted by the league in the drive charts.

I do have to add a caption to these that shows the game, qtr, and timestamp to each of the groupings to try and make things a little clearer (like right now, unless you toggle them game-by-game, you don't know which one they're from). And maybe I'll also add something to toggle the differences between the previous units. It's obviously a work-in-progress, but I'll definitely keep adding to it.

just being able to break out the plays, regardless of subs, is a huge amount of information...