Patriots could have fewest points allowed in NFL in last three years

[patchick]

There's no question that this defense has evolved to the point where it passes the eye test. There's also no question that it wasn't always there. If it had been, BB & co. wouldn't have made the flurry of in-season moves that they did. Over the past few games we've seen the new (e.g. Rowe, Van Noy) and adjusted (Ryan) pieces start to fit together.

For the full-season scoring stat, IMO it's a terrific illustration of the notion of full-team defense with special teams and offense setting up the defense for success. Limiting turnovers, moving the ball even if you don't score, downing punts inside the 20, stopping return men cold...that's all an integral part of scoring prevention, and nobody does it better. All of that + a rapidly gelling defensive unit gives you two straight games without a touchdown allowed. Good stuff.

 

[RobertWeathers]

who was it in 2012?

so the seahawk D has been getting progressively worse since 2013, interesting

BAL/SF SB . Both had very good, physical defenses

 

[edkk323]

The reason yards are often used is because all the yards given up are by the defense. Points are affected by the other two phases of the game.

But yards are also affected by the two phases of the game. Many times you do not have to gain a lot of yards to score a TD. DOVA assigns some weight to yards. It is not exact science but better than PPG \YPG

 

[chasa]

none of that matters if they dont pass the eye test

 

[mosslost]

You guys are all wrong. Yards wins championships, just ask P. "Papa John's" Money and D. Brees.

This is OT on my part about Brees but I do find his statistically output remarkable, even though he does not win nearly enough. He will throw for 5000 yards for the 5th time. Don't get me wrong either I think he is insanely elite career wise. And he does have his ring so he is good there. It's just I don't know, does he get alot of crap volume yards in his losses? If he won more would his yards actually be less? Probably yes imo.

 

[Tony2046]

But yards are also affected by the two phases of the game. Many times you do not have to gain a lot of yards to score a TD. DOVA assigns some weight to yards. It is not exact science but better than PPG \YPG

DVOA is a decent evaluation tool for games played and we can say that for whatever reason this defense has played better against their competition more so than other teams have. Which is true.

But, as you imply, football is a complimentary game and the defense has fed off of the successes the offense and special teams have had.

PPG, DVOA's and other stats are a good foundation for discussion starters so I wouldn't label them as meaningless because they can put successes or failures into context. We can't conclusively state that this defense is the best in the league but on the same token we can't say they are the worst either.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This is OT on my part about Brees but I do find his statistically output remarkable, even though he does not win nearly enough. He will throw for 5000 yards for the 5th time. Don't get me wrong either I think he is insanely elite career wise. And he does have his ring so he is good there. It's just I don't know, does he get alot of crap volume yards in his losses? If he won more would his yards actually be less? Probably yes imo.

Hes incredibly accurate but when your defense allows 30ppg thats a problem. Even though his INT % is respectable, he still throws double-digit picks every year because a) thats their offense and b) they need to score a ton of points to win. Its no coincidence that since 2006 in the years they made to the divisional round they allowed 21ppg or less.

 

[Tony2046]

This is OT on my part about Brees but I do find his statistically output remarkable, even though he does not win nearly enough. He will throw for 5000 yards for the 5th time. Don't get me wrong either I think he is insanely elite career wise. And he does have his ring so he is good there. It's just I don't know, does he get alot of crap volume yards in his losses? If he won more would his yards actually be less? Probably yes imo.

The Saints defense has been horrible for the last three or four years and have been for many of the years Brees has been on that team. Brees is left to outscore the opponent.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

playing in a dome helps

 

[varjao]

The defense faced 1 good QB all year.

They are playing really well but forgive me if I'm still skeptical.

 

[edkk323]

DVOA is a decent evaluation tool for games played and we can say that for whatever reason this defense has played better against their competition more so than other teams have. Which is true.

But, as you imply, football is a complimentary game and the defense has fed off of the successes the offense and special teams have had.

PPG, DVOA's and other stats are a good foundation for discussion starters so I wouldn't label them as meaningless because they can put successes or failures into context. We can't conclusively state that this defense is the best in the league but on the same token we can't say they are the worst either.

Our team is definitely playing better defensively. My original point was that "you can use many different stats but still can not definitely say who is the best. Football is complex and the sample of games is just too small.

 

[Tony2046]

Our team is definitely playing better defensively. My original point was that "you can use many different stats but still can not definitely say who is the best. Football is complex and the sample of games is just too small.

I agree with that. I'm only objecting to the "stats are meaningless" comment. They can be used to frame the discussion which is useful when trying to rein in an "eye test" argument.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

The defense faced 1 good QB all year.

They are playing really well but forgive me if I'm still skeptical.

I hear that a lot. What people fail to mention, is that the Patriots D is holding even bad offenses below their season scoring average.

And while our secondary gave up huge chunks of yards early in the season...they've come a long way and absolutely embarrassed Flacco, Simien, Petty, and Fitzpatrick (as they should be doing)

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I think 3rd down success rate is the best measure, but what the hell do i know. NE is 4th in the league in defensive 3rd down conversion.

 

[Tony2046]

I think 3rd down success rate is the best measure, but what the hell do i know. NE is 4th in the league in defensive 3rd down conversion.

It's just one of many stats none of which are reliable on their own.

If a team has converted 75% of its 3rd downs but only had 14 first downs and one TD what value was the conversion rate in determining a team's overall performance?

Brady and crew could put together a 5 minute drive without seeing a single third down or they could sustain drives by converting a couple of fourth downs. So what does third down success rate really tell you?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The defense faced 1 good QB all year.

They are playing really well but forgive me if I'm still skeptical.

Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
Ryan Tannehill
Andy Dalton
Carson Palmer

I'm not saying this is a murderer's row of quarterbacks, but how many QBs out there are at the next level? Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Carr, Ryan, Wilson, and Roethlisberger and then a big drop off. It's possible they won't even play one of these guys all season.

 

[mosslost]

The Saints defense has been horrible for the last three or four years and have been for many of the years Brees has been on that team. Brees is left to outscore the opponent.

You would think they would have built something better around him by now. Payton is always spoken of as elite on the coaching level, but they have not been steller even with that QB since that Super Bowl.

 

[Tony2046]

You would think they would have built something better around him by now. Payton is always spoken of as elite on the coaching level, but they have not been steller even with that QB since that Super Bowl.

I'm sure the Bountygate thing might have thrown a wrench into their plans and it didn't help hiring Rob Ryan as a DC either.

 

[TennisBallHead]

All the great QBs have teams with crappy defenses. Patriots can play any way they want. Shootout or low scoring.

 

[luuked]

But yards are also affected by the two phases of the game. Many times you do not have to gain a lot of yards to score a TD. DOVA assigns some weight to yards. It is not exact science but better than PPG \YPG

I disagree about DVOA being better.

There is no stat at all that can describe this game in a useful manner because of its complexity and often very situational nature. DVOA is a polished turd.. it might be more sophisticated than just looking at absolute turds like YPG but it still is a turd.

There is nothing more useless and ultimately misleading than stats that we use because they are "better than nothing" as we have seen with the debacle that are PFF grades.