Patriots activate WR N'Keal Harry off IR

[TheBostonStraggler]

"Johnny, you go deep down the right side. Pete, you run a 10 yard in from the left. Dave, you drift to the flat to my right." is not what the Patriots are running. The Patriots run a complicated offense, where the receiver has to read not just where he would go, but exactly where Brady would expect him to go, taking in all the context of every other route and the positioning of all the players on the field. Veterans, particularly veterans who've learned multiple systems, will usually pick that up more easily than a rookie, because the game has already slowed down for them, and they're just adapting to changes rather than having to learn from scratch the way a rookie does. Even so, we've seen plenty of examples of even veterans who don't, or won't, learn how to play in the system (i.e. Galloway, Chad Johnson). It's just not an easy system to learn.

So, when I talk about not expecting much from Harry, it's not about me taking a slap at Harry. It's an acknowledgment that the system is a complicated one, and that even good rookies have a learning curve.

I'm with you but my reasoning is much baser thinking: Expect little then there's little chance to be disappointed. Yet if that low bar of expectations are exceeded? That's pure bonus!

Seriously, it wouldn't be a million to one for Harry to have 3 for 30 production, however, I'd be surprised(pleasantly so). Regardless, how Harry has morphed into part savior, by some posters, for an offense that is surprisingly middling? I blame Johnny Walker and his brothers Black and Red...

 

[primetime]

It would sure be nice to have our own homegrown DeAndre Hopkins or Michael Thomas or Keenan Allen or (insert zillion other top-level wideouts over the last twenty years, of which we have Edelman who was basically developed by accident). Harry's the guy most likely to become that. Let's hope we get some cool **** out of him tomorrow.

 

[Vindicate]

"Johnny, you go deep down the right side. Pete, you run a 10 yard in from the left. Dave, you drift to the flat to my right." is not what the Patriots are running. The Patriots run a complicated offense, where the receiver has to read not just where he would go, but exactly where Brady would expect him to go, taking in all the context of every other route and the positioning of all the players on the field. Veterans, particularly veterans who've learned multiple systems, will usually pick that up more easily than a rookie, because the game has already slowed down for them, and they're just adapting to changes rather than having to learn from scratch the way a rookie does. Even so, we've seen plenty of examples of even veterans who don't, or won't, learn how to play in the system (i.e. Galloway, Chad Johnson). It's just not an easy system to learn.

So, when I talk about not expecting much from Harry, it's not about me taking a slap at Harry. It's an acknowledgment that the system is a complicated one, and that even good rookies have a learning curve.

I don't get why this is a difficult thing to grasp, the Patriots system is complicated. It's no knock on any receiver to not expect them to produce much their first year, unless they're well into veteran status or other worldly talent.

 

[raduray]

Don't agree that it has nothing to do with Brady.

I'm just a dumb engineer, so please clarify how he reads coverages and progressions without scanning the field.

Damned engineers and their logic

 

[IcyPatriot]

This board is very odd.

I still am curious how a member stops posting in August 2017 ...
Suddenly re-appears in October 2019 and starts posting at the same rapid
pace as another member who has not posted since October 6th because they say they
lost their password ...

I am sure it can be retrieved but said person still has not logged on.

2 years missing member who reappears goes out of their way over and over to say they
are not here to argue ... the member who lost their password made a career of arguing ...

We need Columbo and Kojak on this one ... maybe Ring 6 can offer a few clues?

 

[primetime]

I don't get why this is a difficult thing to grasp, the Patriots system is complicated. It's no knock on any receiver to not expect them to produce much their first year, unless they're well into veteran status or other worldly talent.

Given that guys as varied as Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Josh Gordon, and Brandon Lloyd have been highly productive in their first season as Patriots, I'm going to suggest that the issue is that the Patriots have simply never drafted any top-level talents at wide receiver. Other teams have productive rookies, the Patriots don't... and the small number of exceptions to that rule have generally turned out good (Branch, Edelman) or been derailed by injury (Mitchell). Otherwise they mostly just suck. I don't think there's any reason N'Keal Harry couldn't be productive; though I also don't think we should consider any lack of production as a sign of him being a surefire bust, either. Neither situation is dispositive.

 

[Ring 6]

Wow. You guys really don’t like to make people welcome here do you?

 

[IcyPatriot]

Wow. You guys really don’t like to make people welcome here do you?

I am not here to argue ......

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Tom Brady is like Phil Jackson - they don't like rookies.

Good point. I think the larger issue to that is consistency. Among the things BB covets is players who can consistently do X. Even if they only do X at a barely middling level, if it's consistent BB covets it. (I think this is one of the reasons why Gordon is gone, inconsistency).

There's an old inventory specialist saying: if you can't measure it you can't manage it. A rookie hasn't done enough to measure what his consistency is. IMHO, BB wants to manage a game by putting the pieces in place that he knows can do X, then adjust play calling, scheme, etc based on the many consistent X's he has (then feed off of the opposing team's inconsistent play).
With that said, if Harry or any newby earns time he'll get some playing time. One of the things we should all admire about BB is the balls to put a 1st rounder on the bench in favor of an undrafted player if that player earns the time. In BB's team you earn it or you earn a seat on the bench (or a spot on another team).

 

[RobertWeathers]

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

 

[Vindicate]

Given that guys as varied as Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Josh Gordon, and Brandon Lloyd have been highly productive in their first season as Patriots, I'm going to suggest that the issue is that the Patriots have simply never drafted any top-level talents at wide receiver. Other teams have productive rookies, the Patriots don't... and the small number of exceptions to that rule have generally turned out good (Branch, Edelman) or been derailed by injury (Mitchell). Otherwise they mostly just suck. I don't think there's any reason N'Keal Harry couldn't be productive; though I also don't think we should consider any lack of production as a sign of him being a surefire bust, either. Neither situation is dispositive.

Yeah, I guess I should have leaned more in that direction with my language. I definitely approach each case with cautious optimism, and don't mind if they're not producing a whole lot their first year.

Even Edleman took awhile. Mitchell might be the only one to buck that, but that wasn't until the post season. I think that was his first year?

And while other teams have seen production from rookies, I think it's appropriate to say it's because we haven't drafted a top talent in a long ass time. But, also, I'm not sure many teams run the same offense as the Patriots WITH a QB at the helm that expects so much. I often find the "Brady Trust" a bit overblown, but he definitely expects a lot in terms of game knowledge and such.

 

[maust]

I am not here to argue ......

I think I hear the unmistakable sound of ice, not to be confused with Icy but rather the kind sometimes found underfoot, cracking. Probably just me...

 

[IcyPatriot]

I think I hear the unmistakable sound of ice, not to be confused with Icy but rather the kind sometimes found underfoot, cracking. Probably just me...

 

[maust]

Everyone knows The 1st Law of Holes, If you find yourself in one quit digging. Few people are mindful enough of the attendant corollary, If You Find a Hole Think Twice Before Climbing In

 

[Deus Irae]

Given that guys as varied as Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Josh Gordon, and Brandon Lloyd have been highly productive in their first season as Patriots, I'm going to suggest that the issue is that the Patriots have simply never drafted any top-level talents at wide receiver. Other teams have productive rookies, the Patriots don't... and the small number of exceptions to that rule have generally turned out good (Branch, Edelman) or been derailed by injury (Mitchell). Otherwise they mostly just suck. I don't think there's any reason N'Keal Harry couldn't be productive; though I also don't think we should consider any lack of production as a sign of him being a surefire bust, either. Neither situation is dispositive.

Just to use the players you pointed to as an example of the issue:

Welker was a veteran slot receiver who was already all about taking cues from from the way the defender was taking him, and being where the QB needed him to be, when he needed to be there. He also didn't hit his full stride until year two in the system (67 catches on 100 targets in year one, 112 catches on 145 targets in year two)

BB's noted the football intelligence of Moss, calling him the smartest receiver he's ever been around. He also had the advantage of being a singular talent.

Gordon was fed a limited playbook in order to get him involved in the offense. Reads were kept to a minimum, particularly early on. And it was done out of necessity, as the team was in need of a high end receiver.

LLoyd had the advantage of having already been coached by McDaniels on two other teams, so he was already familiar with the system

 

[IcyPatriot]

I think some saw this article and are not using it for talking points.

Brady likes throwing to debuting rookie WR's

 

[maust]

 

[Raymond]

View attachment 24993

loved that album.

 

[IcyPatriot]

loved that album.

I got to see the Cranberries at Lupo's ...