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Our ridicously early 53s

2021 Patriots Season:
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Sep 12th

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PScottman

In the Starting Line-Up
injury not actually requiring IR
Is there a book on what injury "requires" IR?

The answer is "no", because here's the verbiage from the rule book: "not immediately available for participation with a club". So exactly what injury meets that criteria? Let's take a shoulder strain. What muscle group is strained? How badly? What's the typical rehab time versus atypical (as every rehab is different)?

Or maybe we look at the Larry Izzo example provided, a high ankle sprain - per the Jacksonville Orthopedic Institute it can be anywhere from 6 weeks to 6 months...but WAIT A MINUTE Tom Brady had a high ankle sprain before his first Super Bowl...How exactly did he play if it "requires" (your words not mine) IR?

There is significant ability to use IR as a shadow roster to protect promising players - and we agree all teams use it. It doesn't mean there is chicanery of ZERO injuries, it means minor injuries can be utilized because per the rules the member is "not immediately available for participation with a club".

It could be a very mild roll of the ankle which if a star player and before a Super Bowl would tape the crap out of and probably use some cortisone-type shot to alleviate pain whereas if it's a first or second year player who isn't going to play much anyway, but you don't want to lose you'll make them do ALL rehab work to get it to 100% while assigned to IR.

This is not a black and white rule. It is far from it. If it were the rule book would spell out how a panel of independent league doctors "double check" injuries, what injuries were and were not "IR-able" and at what degree; in that case this would start being a pretty thick rule book - what's the ruling on minor otitis externa versus major xerosis? Either of them "require" IR?
 

betterthanthealternative

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Is there a book on what injury "requires" IR?

The answer is "no", because here's the verbiage from the rule book: "not immediately available for participation with a club". So exactly what injury meets that criteria? Let's take a shoulder strain. What muscle group is strained? How badly? What's the typical rehab time versus atypical (as every rehab is different)?

Or maybe we look at the Larry Izzo example provided, a high ankle sprain - per the Jacksonville Orthopedic Institute it can be anywhere from 6 weeks to 6 months...but WAIT A MINUTE Tom Brady had a high ankle sprain before his first Super Bowl...How exactly did he play if it "requires" (your words not mine) IR?

There is significant ability to use IR as a shadow roster to protect promising players - and we agree all teams use it. It doesn't mean there is chicanery of ZERO injuries, it means minor injuries can be utilized because per the rules the member is "not immediately available for participation with a club".

It could be a very mild roll of the ankle which if a star player and before a Super Bowl would tape the crap out of and probably use some cortisone-type shot to alleviate pain whereas if it's a first or second year player who isn't going to play much anyway, but you don't want to lose you'll make them do ALL rehab work to get it to 100% while assigned to IR.

This is not a black and white rule. It is far from it. If it were the rule book would spell out how a panel of independent league doctors "double check" injuries, what injuries were and were not "IR-able" and at what degree; in that case this would start being a pretty thick rule book - what's the ruling on minor otitis externa versus major xerosis? Either of them "require" IR?

Without addressing the details of all this, I'll simply say that "Foxboro Flu" has nothing to do with players that are actually injured and need to be removed from practicing and playing so as to heal. The term means to invent an injury that doesn't exist. That's binary.
 

SlowGettingUp

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I just read that a team can protect four players on the practice squad.
It's very limited. These were 2020 rules, but assumption is going to be same for 2021:

>>After 4 p.m. ET on the Tuesday of a game week (not a bye week), a team may designate up to four of its practice squad players as "protected," meaning they are not allowed to sign with another team until after their current team plays its next game.
 

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
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Post-minicamp projection:


QB (3) C.Newton, J.Stidham, M.Jones

RB (5) B.Bolden, J.White, S.Michel, D.Harris, R.Stevenson

WR (5) N.Agholor, K.Bourne, J.Meyers, N.Harry, G.Olszewski

TE (4) H.Henry, J.Smith, D.Asiasi, D.Keene

C (2) D.Andrews, T.Karras
G (3) S.Mason, I.Wynn, W.Sherman
T (3) T.Brown, M.Onwenu, Y.Cajuste

DE (4) M.Judon, D.Wise, C.Winovich, R.Perkins
DT (4) L.Guy, D.Godchaux, C.Barmore, H.Anderson

ILB (2) R.McMillan, H.Langi
OLB (4) D.Hightower, K.VanNoy, J.Uche, A.Jennings

CB (6) S.Gilmore, J.Jackson, J.Jones, J.Mills, J.Bethel, M.Bryant

SS (2) A.Phillips, K.Dugger
FS (2) D.McCourty, J.Williams

ST (4) Slater, N.Folk, J.Bailey, J.Cardona

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2019


- At least one of Bolden/Keene/Johnson make the 53; I have two of them making it, with Johnson slipping to the PS...

- Until somebody else proves otherwise, I have Harry making the 53...Last chance, Kneal...

- After the top 6, Yawndy Cachoo & Billy Sherman are the best of a very, Very bad lot of backups...Pray for health here...

- These 8 DE/OLBs give us the best chance of disrupting the QB.

- McMillan should be a lock; and I chose Langi over Hall & Bentley because Hall didn't impress when he did play, and JaWrong just. plain. sucks.

- As our best by far CB, Gilmore's on the 53, for now...And Williams bumps off Mike Jackson & Cody Davis...Last chance, SloJuan...
I thought I'd bring the thread back to the ridiculously early projections.

I guess it's a bit scary that I agree with 50 of the cap's picks.

I don't agree with Cajuste, Keene or Langi; although I could see any of them making the roster. Considering that the bottom of the roster will continue to churn all season, agreeing on 50 is pretty remarkable to me.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
I thought I'd bring the thread back to the ridiculously early projections.

I guess it's a bit scary that I agree with 50 of the cap's picks.

I don't agree with Cajuste, Keene or Langi; although I could see any of them making the roster. Considering that the bottom of the roster will continue to churn all season, agreeing on 50 is pretty remarkable to me.

Great minds think alike...or is it that Fools seldom differ?
 

jimnance

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Great minds think alike...or is it that Fools seldom differ?
Probaly the latter...but hold on a sec!!...
...I agreed with all 53 of your picks!
With a couple asterisks: Johnson is by far the best fb and with a run-heavy offense that makes him a key player. So Im putting him on PS "right now" like you did. But he will be on the 53 when the season starts. Id bet my right arm on it.
You cant put Keene on the PS. But I think good possibility they work out a trade for Harry for a low draft pick.
Also JJTaylor will get significant snaps over the season. He may open the season on the PS but we all know there'll be a lot of injuries to rbs as usual and he brings something different that none of the others have. I think one of BBs toughest decisions this season is deciding whos active vs. inactive among the rbs each game. I think it will change from game to game.
 

ctpatsfan77

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PatsFans.com Supporter
I don't agree with Cajuste, Keene or Langi; although I could see any of them making the roster. Considering that the bottom of the roster will continue to churn all season, agreeing on 50 is pretty remarkable to me.
Given that Cajuste has yet to take a meaningful snap, I can't see putting him on the 53 until he actually demonstrates that he can at least contribute in a preseason game.
 

Zuma

Definitely NOT a Weekly Pick's Winner
PatsFans.com Supporter
Post-minicamp projection:


QB (3) C.Newton, J.Stidham, M.Jones - I just hate this. I hope your not correct. I want it to be the opposite....flip them.

RB (5) B.Bolden, J.White, S.Michel, D.Harris, R.Stevenson - Ok so your not sorting by depth I see. Bolden might not make it, Stevenson might not be ready and JJ should be here

WR (5) N.Agholor, K.Bourne, J.Meyers, N.Harry, G.Olszewski - Agholor, Meyers, Bourne, Gunner, Zuber (Zuber the guy who has speed....we need that to backup Agholor)

TE (4) H.Henry, J.Smith, D.Asiasi, D.Keene - Like

C (2) D.Andrews, T.Karras - Like
G (3) S.Mason, I.Wynn, W.Sherman - Like
T (3) T.Brown, M.Onwenu, Y.Cajuste - I'm very surprised you STILL have this. Should be by a mile Brown, Onwenu, Herron and possibly Cunningham (I think you are very wrong about Herron)

DE (4) M.Judon, D.Wise, C.Winovich, R.Perkins - Like
DT (4) L.Guy, D.Godchaux, C.Barmore, H.Anderson - Like

ILB (2) R.McMillan, H.Langi - I think your wrong about Bentley. He's improved every year and was 9 tackles short from 100 in 2020. I feel like Hightower should be inside
Bentley
1624404480954.png
Langi
1624404516738.png
OLB (4) D.Hightower, K.VanNoy, J.Uche, A.Jennings - Like

CB (6) S.Gilmore, J.Jackson, J.Jones, J.Mills, J.Bethel, M.Bryant - Like

SS (2) A.Phillips, K.Dugger - Like
FS (2) D.McCourty, J.Williams - Like

ST (4) Slater, N.Folk, J.Bailey, J.Cardona - Like

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2019
 
Last edited:

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Probaly the latter...but hold on a sec!!...
...I agreed with all 53 of your picks!
With a couple asterisks: Johnson is by far the best fb and with a run-heavy offense that makes him a key player. So Im putting him on PS "right now" like you did. But he will be on the 53 when the season starts. Id bet my right arm on it.
You cant put Keene on the PS. But I think good possibility they work out a trade for Harry for a low draft pick.
Also JJTaylor will get significant snaps over the season. He may open the season on the PS but we all know there'll be a lot of injuries to rbs as usual and he brings something different that none of the others have. I think one of BBs toughest decisions this season is deciding whos active vs. inactive among the rbs each game. I think it will change from game to game.

Yeah I think Jake Johnson probably does make the 53, so the decision might become Bolden vs Keene...or both...or neither...

This time of year I look at the roster more as a big depth chart than an Opening Day 53, anyway...Like you mentioned injuries are gonna happen, so then it becomes a Next Man Up situation and how the layers of depth stack up at some positions vs other positiions...
 

kurtinelson

In the Starting Line-Up
Here's my prediction on what the roster will be:

Offense (25)
QB (3) Cam, Mac, Hoyer
RB (5) Harris, Michel, White, Stevenson, Bolden
FB (1) Johnson
TE (3) Henry, Smith, Asi Asi
WR (5) Myers, Agolohr, Bourne, Gunner, Harry
OL (8) Andrews, Mason, Onwenu, Karras, Brown, Wynn, Herron, Sherman

Defense (22)
DT (3) Guy, Godchaux, Barmore
DE(2) Wise, Anderson
ILB(2) Hightower, Bentley
OLB(6) Judon, Van Noy, Uche, Perkins, Winovich, Jennings
CB (6) Gilmore, Jackson, Jones, Mills, Bryant, Williams
SS (2) Dugger, Phillips
FS (1) Devin McCourty

Special Teams (6)
ST Folk, Bailey, Cardona, Slater, Bethel, Davis,

Thoughts:
  • QB: I think we have to keep 3 QBs unfortunately
  • RB: Bolden is the big question mark - just assuming his ST ability gives him an edge. Stevenson has some ST ability, but I think this is a redshirt year for him. Hate losing Taylor. Definitely want Michel on the roster for depth. We are going to be run heavy and can't rely on Harris alone as the lead back for the season. Michel's blocking has impressed me too.
  • FB: I think Johnson is legit
  • TE: Sorry Dalton.
  • WR: I'm assuming BB keeps Harry on the roster. He's a decent blocker and contested catch guy for the red zone. Hopefully Nixon and Zuber find refuge on the PS. Agolohr and Bourne make me nervous.
  • OLB: Solid group even after losing Thuney.
  • DT: Goodbye to my binkie Cowart
  • DE: BB is invested in Wise.
  • ILB: I'm predicting Bentley making the roster and Pats fans being annoyed.
  • OLB: Very heavy here. Not surprised if Winovich traded, but I hate to lose his motor as a pass rushing specialist. Not sure we get much out of Perkins this year. Jennings has not impressed at all but I can see him making it. Hopefully some of these guys can play inside too.
  • CB: Without a healthy Gilmore, I think we could be in trouble
  • SS: Very excited to see Dugger's progression
  • FS: Not sure who the backup to McCourty is - Mills?
  • ST: Pretty loaded.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Here's my prediction on what the roster will be:

Offense (25)
QB (3) Cam, Mac, Hoyer
RB (5) Harris, Michel, White, Stevenson, Bolden
FB (1) Johnson
TE (3) Henry, Smith, Asi Asi
WR (5) Myers, Agolohr, Bourne, Gunner, Harry
OL (8) Andrews, Mason, Onwenu, Karras, Brown, Wynn, Herron, Sherman

Defense (22)
DT (3) Guy, Godchaux, Barmore
DE(2) Wise, Anderson
ILB(2) Hightower, Bentley
OLB(6) Judon, Van Noy, Uche, Perkins, Winovich, Jennings
CB (6) Gilmore, Jackson, Jones, Mills, Bryant, Williams
SS (2) Dugger, Phillips
FS (1) Devin McCourty

Special Teams (6)
ST Folk, Bailey, Cardona, Slater, Bethel, Davis,

Thoughts:

  • ILB: I'm predicting Bentley making the roster and Pats fans being annoyed.

If he does I will be...Raekwon Mcmillan >>>>>>>>>>>>> JaWrong.

Otherwise, I can absolutely see the rest of the 53 being exactly this.
 

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