Our First String Offense AND Our First String Defense Looked Awful

[5thRing-Hunt]

I get that McCourty doesn't like playing CB but does he have to broadcast it to every QB we are gonna be playing this year?

 

[mgteich]

Ok. I get it. You prefer everyone to look terrible. Somehow this is a sign that we will win the Super Bowl.

What, got no response for my post so you changed the subject to the defense?


So you think BB and MP were scheming the defense for this game? Butler and Brown at CB with McCourty and Harmon at Safety and most of those big plays don't happen.

McCourty wanted no part of playing CB last night.

Last time BB and MP schemed against Brees

17 of 36 (47.2%)
236 yards
2 TD
1 INT


This is the f**cking Lions '11 preseason game all over again where the Pats looked bad and the sky was falling yet 6 months later were playing the last game of the season and were a drop (or Gronk injury) away from winning another SB

 

[rochrist]

Imagine the thread had they LOST the game! Holy crap!!

 

[JMC00]

Imagine the thread had they LOST the game! Holy crap!!

Lions preseason 2011.

 

[Rob0729]

The Offensive Line is the elephant in the room. We just presume that our running game will be fine when Stork and Vollmer return. I'm not at all sure.

It's 2014 all over again. People were predicting doom with the o-line last year too. Sure it took a few weeks for the o-line to gel, but it was solid for most of the year. I am not concerned with the o-line at all. Just like every year, it will figure itself out.

I think the o-line will be fine with Stork and Vollmer back in there.

My biggest concern right now is the #2 CB. Other than that, I don't think this team has major concerns. Some things that need to keep an eye on and are minor concerns. But with Bulter shoring up the #1 CB position, I think the Pats are ok at secondary other than the #2 CB which is worlds better than we thought going into camp.

 

[strngplyr]

MG you're a great poster and all, but you sound like someone just took your child and beat them with how you're reacting to last nights game.

It was ugly, but people have been trying to give reasons as to WHY it looked ugly and WHY they believe it doesn't matter and your only response to them has been a generally childish one where it barely appears you even read their reply "ok so you just prefer to look bad, got it", over and over.

There were nearly a dozen projected starters on the first string units who didn't play last night. The offense alone had 4, maybe 5 starters playing.

Me personally, my concern isn't about how bad they looked as the units that were on the field, but my concern is that we REALLY need to get the proper guys on the field before week one. YOUR concerns will be validated if that does not happen. Because the units on the field from games 1 and 2 collectively are not ready to play football when it counts.

But again, those units shouldn't be the ones on the field when we line up against the Steelers.

Gronk: is full go, precaution holding him out, I hope he continues not playing.

Edelman: by all accounts isn't seriously hurt, might not be ready yet but no sign he won't be. He doesn't need these games either.

LaFell: is a concern. Reports that he shed his boot later than expected, may impact season start.

Stork: I just read today is close to a return.

Vollmer: has already returned to limited game action, just getting into game shape.

Wendell: I hope he's ready soon, love Mason but he'd be the weakest link on OL if he's forced to play. That's a legit concern right now. No word on Wendell's timetable.

Chandler: No word, i don't remember it seeming like a big deal at the time, definitely needs to play though, soon

Mayo/Hightower: Same as Gronk I believe.

Non-injuries: McCourty CB experiment is just that, IMO. We would ALWAYS tinker with thinks like a 4-3 base when we were a 3-4 team and then never see it for a single snap during the season.

Harmon: is not a full time starter, passing down specialist, occasionally takes DMC's role when DMC is on the line to bump a TE.

Collins: Is he out of shape or did he not care? I'm not worried about him when the games start, but he didn't appear to give a **** last night, and I hate that attitude. He did everything very lazily and I hope BB lets him know that even the biggest superstars don't take plays off. He seemed like he was bothered that Mayo/HT didn't have to play and he did.

9 starters out, might be forgetting some, and 2 or 3 guys playing out of position. Ugly? Yes. Very. Concerning? Not yet. It won't be what we see unless those injuries prove to be more serious than we know.

 

[Rob0729]

Agree with the OP's point. The starting O & D looked awful. To say otherwise denies reality.
I'm hoping that starting next Friday we see some of the walking wounded return.
And let's use some cap $ to sign Mathis to shore up the OL.
We have it within our power to at least address that problem while CB remains problematical.

No one is denying that the "starters" played awful last night. We are just saying it doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot in week 2 of the preseason when nearly half of the opening day projected starters didn't play last night and some of the ones that did were playing out of position (McCourty for example).

Now if the Pats play most of their starters this upcoming Friday and they still play awful, then there is at least some reason to be concerned. But really are we going to get upset that Brady couldn't get the passing offenses going with 3/5 of the projected starting o-line and his three best receivers from last year out of the game? Are we going to get concerned with 2/3 of the starting LBs out and McCourty playing out of position?

People read way too much into the preseason. The 2015 regular season New England Patriots didn't play last night. If the starting line up from last night is the starting line up come opening game, we will really be cursing Goodell because the Pats lost a top 10-15 pick with Deflategate. Luckily for us Pats fans, that is not the starting line up we will see.

 

[Bruins29]

We have also had several seasons where the team looked crappy the first 2 regular season games.....and then, as usual it comes together. Just the nature of the sport.

 

[PATS16N0]

Not worried about it.

Patriots offense is going to be 2012 potent this year.

The day the Patriots are playing under expectations in post-Thanksgiving football is the day I'll start to worry. Until then.

 

[BobDigital]

I do feel different about this team after this game then i did before it. I feel MORE confident they will make a deep run if healthy. I think i am likely the only one who feels better after this game.

Reasons why...

First off Butler is going to be good this year (all to be said about that). It was as though McCourty was benched for the game. The gain from the CB 2 spot was non-existent (perhaps a minus) and the loss from FS was massive. Move him back there and you get a huge gain. Richards had another good game and makes me feel more and more confident he will out play Harmon/Wilson and be an upgrade to the coverage safety spot opposite McCourty. The #2 CB is still an issue but Brown looked decent in the limit snaps I have seen him in this preseason. I think once the secondary is all sorted out it will be pretty good.

The LBs got schooled. Collins had a bad game to boot. I think if you bring back Mayo/Hightower that is solved fast.

The DL was okay but loss more than they won against a very good OL. They did not get run on though and I think if the back 7 was more intact we would have seen them have a chance to do more.

The offensive line is a work in progress and will be for a while. I was expecting this. It will have good and bad quarters. Solder also just had a really bad game and it didn't help the play calling was super predictable (but its preseason). I think it will be worked out and good come later in the season. Not worried.

3rd down back was one of my main issues going into the preseason and it looks like we have good options here. White/Lewis both look like good options and i don't know what Cadet can do yet. I feel confident we will get production from that.

WR/TEs get an N/A and Brady will be Brady (Jimmy showing he has some ability to... glad to see it)

Frankly the good things i saw this game were positive as far as long term and the bad things are simple short term things that as easily fixable.

 

[mgteich]

Me personally, my concern isn't about how bad they looked as the units that were on the field, but my concern is that we REALLY need to get the proper guys on the field before week one. YOUR concerns will be validated if that does not happen.

Are you of the opinion that none of the starters need preseason reps, and the offensive units and defensive units are so cohesive that they don't need work together?

I have the same hopes as you do with regard to the injuries on offense. HOWEVER, that is a very, very long list. One or two of these assessments might turn out to be optimistic. And yes, I strongly agree with keeping Gronk out. I have been suggesting that on many occasions in the preseason and in meaningless game situations. What we have on offense is 2014 repeated. Belichick will need to use the first four games of the season as his preseason. Perhaps, the players will get a preseason game together, perhaps not. I suppose that Belichick is good enough to spot the league the preseason.

With regard to the defense, Brees and their offense did everything they wanted. I saw very little from our defense. And yes, I support holding out Mayo and Hightower. This game was used to test the backup linebackers, Walker and the secondary.

 

[JMC00]

The day the Patriots are playing under expectations in post-Thanksgiving football is the day I'll start to worry. Until then.

Might even post-Halloween or post-Columbus day

 

[strngplyr]

Are you of the opinion that none of the starters need preseason reps, and the offensive units and defensive units are so cohesive that they don't need work together?

I have the same hopes as you do with regard to the injuries on offense. HOWEVER, that is a very, very long list. One or two of these assessments might turn out to be optimistic. And yes, I strongly agree with keeping Gronk out. I have been suggesting that on many occasions in the preseason and in meaningless game situations. What we have on offense is 2014 repeated. Belichick will need to use the first four games of the season as his preseason. Perhaps, the players will get a preseason game together, perhaps not. I suppose that Belichick is good enough to spot the league the preseason.

With regard to the defense, Brees and their offense did everything they wanted. I saw very little from our defense. And yes, I support holding out Mayo and Hightower. This game was used to test the backup linebackers, Walker and the secondary.

No, I don't think they need 0 reps. They certainly do. But given the circumstances, I'm more than happy to see many of those guys not playing until the regular season if they're not quite or only just returning to 100%.

LaFell has only been here a year, it doesn't hurt to see him play. But he's obviously not ready.

Edelman, Gronk, HT, Mayo? Those guys are all very proven and dependable at this point. I don't need to see them. I don't need to see Brady either if he's playing with guys that will never take the field with him, Brady personally doesn't need those reps, its the guys who need reps with Brady, but the guys who need those reps aren't there.

The guys who are playing that I think we need to see? Well, I think a lot of them are doing better than anyone is giving credit for. The young defensive players not named Logan Ryan especially are playing rather well. All of the young pass rushers are consistently winning, Malcom Butler has given up 1 completion for 10 yards in the preseason. Brown and Grissom were penetrating and sealing edges all over the place, with Brown holding his ground against double teams and forcing the RB to make a move.

Sheard has looked like the best DE on the roster.

Last night featured Brees releasing the ball too quickly for ANY pass rush. But if you watch the lines, our DL won most snaps. DMC and Harmon got picked on, and neither guy is playing where they will be come September.

My point isn't that these guys don't need reps, it's that you appear to be taking the performances of the past 2 games as if they were played by the starters.

 

[DaBruinz]

Clearly we're not ready for Prime Time.

Brady count a first down in three series. The power run game was less than nonexistent.

Brees had four scoring drives against our first string defense. The result was three TD's and dropped pass that could have been a 4th TD (ended up in a field goal).

Umm.. Not sure how you can say that our first string offense looked terrible when it wasn't on the field last night. Gronkoswski, Chandler, Edelman, LaFell, and Stork weren't on the field.

Our 1st String Defense didn't have Hightower, Mayo, or Branch out there.

Let's totally over-look that Drew Brees is a top 5 QB who has some damn fine receivers.. Oh, and the Defense played primarily in zone coverage instead of man-to-man.. But yeah.. Let's over-react

 

[DaBruinz]

So, we played without three of our top players against a team with no defensive backs and couldn't even manage a first down. If that's a great performance to you, OK.

No Defensive backs? Nothing like talking ridiculously, MG. Jean-Baptiste and Swann clearly are legit CBs. But lets forget that and just be chicken littles..

 

[DaBruinz]

Why you guys post such nonsense? The offense played terribly. Perhaps, every injury player will be back at 100% by Game One, and everything will be fine. Perhaps not. After all, the players don't really need any preseason reps.

Personally, I fight unlikely that the offense will be running very well for Game One. I well understand that we can go 2-2, look terrible early and still win a Super Bowl.

Obviously, I much, much more concerned about the defense who was missing only Mayo and Hightower (of the top players).

Ninkovich didn't play, though he was dressed.. McCourty played out of position at CB. No Alan Branch. But yeah.. they were only missing two of their top players.. *rolls eyes*

 

[Bruins29]

This thread is off the rails

 

[DaBruinz]

The OL and secondary were very poor against their 1 s, of that there is not doubt. But I'm reminded of the PS game against the Lions and the regular season game against the Chiefs. BB has a knack of minimising the problems and so I don't think it's time to worry yet. We were missing Stork and Vollmer on the OL, Solder was on his first game back and we have two rookies still learning. And on secondary we were experimenting with McCourty and Harmon.

If we're still struggling in late October, then I'll worry. August, not so much.

Vollmer played during the 1st 3 series.. Fleming was lining up at a TE..

 

[Tony2046]

I have an awesome chili recipe that everyone loves.

I tried a few new ingredients and it sucked.

Back to the old recipe I guess. Thank god it wasn't a Chili Cook off or something.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Once again I take my hat off to the Coaching abilities of Bill Belichick. He has a deft touch with both Carrot and Stick while he teaches football and guide the psychology of his new QB project. He recognized the raw talents of a n FCS QB, and saw the rare passing abilities he displayed in a primitive football setting. Others did not or discounted them.

He recognized that Polo needed a shot of confidence; and currently the Offensive line is not in shape to afford him that, especially facing First String Defenses.

So what does he do? He has Brady start the two games for a few series and absorb the opponents First string Defense, not worrying too much about Brady as he has that quick release to protect him.

Then he lets Polo get most of the second string snaps for the experience and the confidence building it will likely bring. But only after forcing a series of long throws early in the first game to see if his POISE can be shaken or not. Polo absorbed the all non starter O line and the 7 sacks with aplomb, and passed with flying colors; and then produced a 20 for 30 or 66% completion rate, despite the sacks. His only INT should probably have been and INC if the WR fought for it.

BB knows that Polo is not ready, unlike TB was in his second year. TB was a product of Big Time football whereas Polo played in obscurity at a FCS school, sometimes without a Playbook.. It stands to reason he needs longer development. He needs a second and perhaps a third year of experience or as close as he can get to one before being given as starting gig.

It is amazing to see BB at work as he develops another QB who can play in this League, despite never investing a First Round pick on any of them. It makes you wonder how poor other Coaches are even with First Round picks.

That is why I do not fear Brady getting a Injunction and delaying any possible suspension until later in the season. Every game, while being coached will help Polo, plus the Offensive line will have a better chance of settling in and gelling. BB would obviously prefer if TB were available all along; but giving Polo a known and limited opportunity to play will give him experience but not discourage him when he is supplanted by a return of TB. That is using possible adversity to your advantage.

Polo looks lie a starting caliber NFL QB. He is not overwhelmed by the opponent players he has faced. He commands the Offensive squad and behaves with Poise and self control.