OT - State of the NFL QBs

[BobDigital]

In last nights Eagles/Falcons thread there was a lot of discussion about the game. Much of it was about how boring the game was along with a lot of discussion and complaints about the lack of watchable QB play. Lets take a step back and really think about the implications.

Between these two teams you had a former NFL MVP. A player who was in the race for MVP last year and a Superbowl MVP. Yet with all these options neither of these teams could seem to field a competent QB. Let that REALLY sink in.

There was debate on Matt Ryan and where he ranks among NFL QBs. Is he merely average? below average? Above average? Looking at his play it is hard to believe this is what an average NFL QB should look like. When he couldn't toss it up to Jones or dump it off to an open RB in the backfield he looked completely lost and useless. Yet I find it hard to think of 15 guys I would rank above him.

The NFL has no lack of elite QB talent. They have multiple future HOFers and 3 of the 10 best QBs of all time are playing right now Imo. Yet that 2nd and 3rd tier is virtually empty.

When I tried to make a list of QBs better than Ryan this is as far as I got... Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, Stafford, Rivers Jimmy G (even in only 7 starts he clearly is IMO), Wilson, Cousins. After this it gets a bit harder.

I guess Cam Newton but he suffers from inconsistency. Watson looks great but it is hard to say for sure until we see how he looks with tape on him and after coming back from his injury. Wentz is better when healthy but until we see him come back from his injury we can't know for sure how much that will effect him. Will Luck ever be healthy? Can Goff repeat what he did last year? Does Prescott bounce back this year after a very underwhelming year?

A lot of guys we might put above him are either injured or have questions that need answered. It is hard to put a lot of players clearly above Ryan as so few QBs have been consistently good the last few years. But this isn't about Ryan. He is just a fun measuring stick to use as a former MVP and after being a total suck bag last night. This is about the fact the NFL needs QBs. Not automatically another Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers. They need a hell of a lot more Rivers and Staffords. Guys who can just play well game in game out and be consistently watchable. The fact that they lack these guys is very concerning.

I hope Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield can fill up those ranks. They don't need to be great. Just please be watchable!

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Good point about that second tier. I am cringing at putting Roethlisberger, Stafford, and Cousins that list, but surprisingly it is that hard to find anyone who can consistently carry a team on their shoulders, you expect to win tough road games and play well against good defenses, and can make the players around him better. Brady and Rodgers are really the only two who fit that bill, and after that, Brees is the only guy who can comfortably be considered in the top 5.

I would compare a lot of these other quarterbacks - including Ryan and those that you put on the list - the equivalent of playing Texas Hold Em and drawing pocket 10s. You just know the hand isn't as strong as you'd like to go all-in, but you can't resist because you won't fold it either.

 

[Ring 6]

lol jimmy g

 

[Kontradiction]

I can do with bad QB or good defensive play. I'm actually more of a defensive guy anyway. What made the game so unwatchable for me were the amount of penalty flags. At the end of the first half, there were a total of 16 first downs and 16 accepted penalties. That's ridiculous. I turned the game off by halftime and went to bed.

 

[Froob]

Gotta wonder if Wentz could win back his job after that peformance.

 

[oldrover]

When I tried to make a list of QBs better than Ryan this is as far as I got... Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, Stafford, Rivers Jimmy G (even in only 7 starts he clearly is IMO)

lol jimmy g

 

[SammyBlueCat]

What about the supporting cast?

 

[Kontradiction]

Gotta wonder if Wentz could win back his job after that peformance.

Laurie and Peterson are conspiring against him, IMO. Fix is clearly in at this time.

 

[tasmlab]

Well, it's just the first game. I'd wait until the first 64 games go by in week 4 before declaring a league-wide epidemic of bad QB play. And it still might be very true.

 

[holyredeemer]

A bigger problem IMO is the coaching talent in the league.

 

[Ring 6]

My thought during the game was this:
Back in the day when football was smash mouth we used to say I’m running behind my best blocker until you can stop it. You would see a be get 30-40 carries in a game. Will we see a passing version of this coming?
Because on Atlanta’s first play Julio ran an out at about 7 yards. The corner played soft and it was a simple catch and throw.
I thought why not run that 20 times and make them change the coverage? They are playing off because they are afraid of him running right past the corner for a big play. So make them come up, make them double, make the lb fly out to get underneath it. Do it until they can stop it.
Then whatever they do to stop it, you exploit that hole.
Imagine brady and gronk playing that game?
Split gronk out. Run a 6-7 hitch or out if the db plays off, or have gronk run past him if he plays up.
Once you have done that on 6 straight first downs or so and they react, exploit the change, ie run at the spot the lb vacated, send a back into the flat while everyone is chasing gronk, screen to the other side, run a wr across he formation into the area gronk vacates, etc.
In the old days bread and butter was the gb sweep, or student body right, or a lead through the b gap from the I or the triple option a d everything the offense did sprung off of that.
How long before we see a bread and butter pass play where your top receiver ends up routinely catching 15-20 passes a game?

 

[Sicilian]

I can do with bad QB or good defensive play. I'm actually more of a defensive guy anyway. What made the game so unwatchable for me were the amount of penalty flags. At the end of the first half, there were a total of 16 first downs and 16 accepted penalties. That's ridiculous. I turned the game off by halftime and went to bed.

I only watched the first half too, and I'll admit I wasn't paying 100% attention, so correct me if I'm wrong: But it felt to me like most of the penalties in the first half were mental mistakes, procedural stuff. Offsides, false starts, a couple holdings. The only one I can remember that wasn't cut and dry was the PI on Trufant (which seemed ticky tacky to me). I didn't feel like the refs were really ruining anything last night, more that the two teams seemed sloppy.

Again though, didn't see the second half and absolutely could have missed something while I was picking bits of cheez-it off of my shirt.

 

[Deus Irae]

It was one game.

 

[Wheelman]

Gotta wonder if Wentz could win back his job after that peformance.

Wait, who started for the eagles?

 

[TheRainMaker]

I can do with bad QB or good defensive play. I'm actually more of a defensive guy anyway. What made the game so unwatchable for me were the amount of penalty flags. At the end of the first half, there were a total of 16 first downs and 16 accepted penalties. That's ridiculous. I turned the game off by halftime and went to bed.

The flags were annoying. They also took forever to start the game after they had clearance. And there's too many commercials. The worst is when they come back from commercials, then the quarter ends, and then they go right back to commercials.

A bigger problem IMO is the coaching talent in the league.

I agree. And a lot has to do with the QB play.

This era of QB as a whole sucks. I grew up watching football in the 90's and that was an era great QB play.

 

[miloofcroton]

A) Let's talk defenses. Good defense will make good QBs look bad. Take Tom Brady himself and look at, for instance, the Super Bowl in 2008.

B) This is a product of QB-friendly systems. The stats get better, and QBs get better at playing within these systems. Once they have to do things that were perhaps more common before this era, things that they are much less used to doing now, they find themselves at a disadvantage.

C) The f*cking spread offense.

D) Matt Ryan always has been overrated, as has Ben Roethlisberger and a handful of other big names. I think a player becomes a big name very early on in their career, either through flashy play, a lucky game or two, gaudy stats, or high draft position, and they can float on this status for their entire career as a 'big name QB' despite never really being that good in the first place. It's like once it becomes accepted that they are good, they'd have to do something really bad to ever not be considered good anymore.

E) Everyone wants the next Michael Vick. No one cares about the next Tom Brady. In general, there's an obsession with physical tools. I've kind of seen this across the board for all positions, but it certainly holds true at QB. It's like they no longer evaluate for actual ability and desire to play. It's just a question of height, speed, arm length, hand width, etc.

It's sad, but to me, the top QBs in the NFL were the same top QBs in the NFL 10 years ago, minus Peyton who is now retired. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers. There is no one to take the mantle. The only under 30 QB that I really, really like is Garoppolo, and the only other non-ancient guy that I like is Cousins.