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OT: SI article on player agents

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First off, I think that the NFLPA (also known as Tom Condon's lap dog) "ostracized him" in a BS manner. Putting a check in to a trust when you don't know what to do with it due to pending litigation is not a breach of fiduciary duty to the person who gave you the check.

Of course it is. It's their money. You can't keep someone's money by giving it to a lawyer. Please!!!

As for Upstarter's comments, sorry, but just because you worked in the media department of an agent's office doesn't mean you have any insight or knowledge of what went on when agents met players outside the office or in closed door meetings. If you honestly believe that no one at the company you worked at violated any NCAA rule on money/benefits, I have some Ocean Front Property in New Mexico to sell you.

I never said they never did. I was referring to the fact that these were not hustlers. They weren't guys who "fell into" the business. It was a first-class corporate operation occupying high-rent skyscraper offices in Washington DC.

As for mentioning Michael Jordan, please don't think that it gives the company any credibility. Remember, Jordan is the one who "retired" (read suspended) from the NBA and went to play Baseball. The NBA didn't want to be perceived like MLB in having one of it's all time greats hit with gambling charges. Instead, it swept the incident under the rug and allowed Jordan to "retire" for a year or whatever it was and then it allowed him back.

And? That's totally irrelevant. What do you want me to do? List all of ProServ's clients? Jack Nicklaus, Jimmy Connors, Alonzo Mourning, Greg Norman, John Daly, Arthur Ashe, Patrick Ewing, the tops in tennis, golf, basketball and football. When Proserv disbanded and reformed under David Falk, they became SFX Group--which is now the biggest sports agent firm in the world.

Also, there is enough confirmation by the players mentioned to give this story credibility. Especially in light of the recent scandal at UNC (which I don't think is a coincidence).

No one disputes this.

The reality is that these schools have made billions of dollars off of their college athletes (particularly football) and the college athletes get a pittance in return, if they get anything at all. Plus there are unrealistic expectations about living expenses that are not addressed by the NCAA. And, on top of it all, the NCAA bullies these kids if there is a hint of anything wrong. I believe that has been shown by recent events involving Dez Bryant and Michael Oher, just to name a few.

This just isn't true. I have studied this in great depth. The NCAA financial database is online at IndyStar and USAToday. Schools are bleeding huge amounts of money because of sports. HUGE amounts. They should get rid of these programs. It's unconscionable that kids who work long hours to pay for their college education are forking over some of that money in big student fees to the athletes. It's WRONG. Unfortunately, because the cheapest education to be had comes from big state universities (which coincidentally are the very schools that participate in div. 1 sports), most of these hard-working students have no choice. Some schools lose $30 million or more a year. We've seen what happens when a President goes against the Boosters and Alumni. Texas A&M lost $38 million last year, and that's not counting the debt service on the stadium paid by the school. The President told the AD to give money back, and she was promptly fired. It's a complete joke. They should get rid of these programs. As for the players they have it good. They are receiving $30k a year in education, $12k in living and food expenses, and another $25k in football training. They get more than others at the university who are bringing a lot more money to the school than the average football player.
 
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That's the key to the whole piece. If what he wrote isn't true, it's libel. (Upstater, having experience in a top-tier agency that won recruits by wowing them with their amazing client list in no way contradicts the article. The writer himself makes that clear, that when he moved up from the world of hustling smaller agents to the "name brand" guys he didn't have to pay out anymore.)

Right, all I said was that there's some aggrandizing info in there that isn't necessarily true. He was in the game for many years, and only came out with this article when he is no longer viable.

So I think the author is credible. I also think he's a self-serving SOB who was motivated by nothing but base revenge. Look at how he talks about the stories he used to spin for himself to justify his dirty dealings...then tries to claim that he's telling all now to set the record straight because this is the honorable view he wants his children to have about him. Right buddy, you're telling about how daddy used to procure women and offer up fake urine samples for players to make your little daughter proud.

This is precisely my attitude.

He played the game, played it ugly, it screwed him over and now he's extracting his pound of flesh. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, indeed.
 
Of course it is. It's their money. You can't keep someone's money by giving it to a lawyer. Please!!!

No, it wasn't. It was money from a commission check for which Luchs was the primary agent. He gave it to his lawyer who put it in a trust fund until the pending litigation was dealt with.

I never said they never did. I was referring to the fact that these were not hustlers. They weren't guys who "fell into" the business. It was a first-class corporate operation occupying high-rent skyscraper offices in Washington DC.

And just how did they start their business??? Hmm?? What you seem to miss in the whole story is that Luchs became the "first class corporate operation occupying high rent skyscraper offices" in Los Angeles. Are you saying that the people who started ProServ didn't "fall into" the business??


And? That's totally irrelevant. What do you want me to do? List all of ProServ's clients? Jack Nicklaus, Jimmy Connors, Alonzo Mourning, Greg Norman, John Daly, Arthur Ashe, Patrick Ewing, the tops in tennis, golf, basketball and football. When Proserv disbanded and reformed under David Falk, they became SFX Group--which is now the biggest sports agent firm in the world.

Actually, it is totally relevant. It takes away from the credibility you tried to build for them. Unless you are going to say that they didn't have a hand in Jordan getting a free pass.


This just isn't true. I have studied this in great depth. The NCAA financial database is online at IndyStar and USAToday. Schools are bleeding huge amounts of money because of sports. HUGE amounts. They should get rid of these programs. It's unconscionable that kids who work long hours to pay for their college education are forking over some of that money in big student fees to the athletes. It's WRONG. Unfortunately, because the cheapest education to be had comes from big state universities (which coincidentally are the very schools that participate in div. 1 sports), most of these hard-working students have no choice. Some schools lose $30 million or more a year. We've seen what happens when a President goes against the Boosters and Alumni. Texas A&M lost $38 million last year, and that's not counting the debt service on the stadium paid by the school. The President told the AD to give money back, and she was promptly fired. It's a complete joke. They should get rid of these programs. As for the players they have it good. They are receiving $30k a year in education, $12k in living and food expenses, and another $25k in football training. They get more than others at the university who are bringing a lot more money to the school than the average football player.

Let me get this straight. You are claiming that these schools haven't made billions over the years off the backs of their sports programs (mainly football)? What friggin fantasy world do you live in?

BTW, since you brought up A&M, the Tuition there is $4110 a year. Not $30K. OH, and I suggest you do better research on A&M and what happens. Elsa Murano wasn't "promptly fired". She resigned. And from what I have read, she resigned because she didn't live up to the standards that were set and she was given the option of that or being fired. By resigning, she got a nice severance package. Also, if you are going to bring up her asking the AD for money back, you should make sure you have it in proper context. It was in regards to the lofty 42% salary hike that was given to him by the previous President before Murano was appointed. It was also in regards to the extraordinary expenses that the members of the Athletic staff rang up as part of the Bowl game expenses in 2008.

And while A&M might have "lost" $38 million, last year, most of that was not from the Athletic Department. In fact, by all accounts, they only finished about $1 mill in the red. And most of that comes from Women's athletics where they spend $20 million to make $1 million. And much of that million comes from a huge increase in administrative salaries, including the AD getting a 42% increase in his salary and a 36.5% bonus. Not to mention a lot of questionable expenses that around from the Bowl Games and other "post season" travel.

What others who are on full scholarships are bringing more money into the Universities?? I'd love for you to explain that statement.
 
They are receiving $30k a year in education, $12k in living and food expenses, and another $25k in football training. They get more than others at the university who are bringing a lot more money to the school than the average football player.

They're discouraged from getting nearly the full benefit from the education, and anyway it's high-priced to subsidize research.

The training only benefits those who ever had a shot of making the NFL.
 
No, it wasn't. It was money from a commission check for which Luchs was the primary agent. He gave it to his lawyer who put it in a trust fund until the pending litigation was dealt with.

You simply can't do this kind of thing. You don't withhold paychecks in the middle of a contract dispute pending litigation. He had a contract that he didn't honor. I had the same thing happen to me when a seller's real estate agent took my deposit and put it into escrow, but once the deal broke down, by law that money was mine. He gave it to his lawyer who did the same thing Luchs did. In the end, they paid damages to me for holding my money.

And just how did they start their business??? Hmm?? What you seem to miss in the whole story is that Luchs became the "first class corporate operation occupying high rent skyscraper offices" in Los Angeles. Are you saying that the people who started ProServ didn't "fall into" the business??

How did ProServ start? Donald Dell was a pro tennis player and when he retired he represented his friends. They went on to form a tennis circuit and did the same thing with golf. Then Dell's firm became the biggest sports agency and only rival IMG was close. He put David Falk and those agents through law school, and developed a soup-to-nuts agency that did everything for athletes (agentry, contracts, promotion, media, advertising, finance, etc.) At the time, that was highly enticing for the top young athletes. Of course, ProServ also represented the biggest Hall of Fame coaches in college basketball.

Actually, it is totally relevant. It takes away from the credibility you tried to build for them. Unless you are going to say that they didn't have a hand in Jordan getting a free pass.

I still don't see how Jordan's personal behavior had anything to do with ProServ.

Let me get this straight. You are claiming that these schools haven't made billions over the years off the backs of their sports programs (mainly football)? What friggin fantasy world do you live in?
]

The schools have LOST billions. I've seen the breakdowns at Penn State personally. It wasn't pretty. Even the supposed most lucrative program in the USA, Texas, is a money loser.

[/QUOTE]BTW, since you brought up A&M, the Tuition there is $4110 a year. Not $30K.[/QUOTE]

I didn't write the word "tuition." I wrote "cost of education." Big difference. Tuition is subsidized by research foundations, endowments, taxpayers, and more. You honestly don't believe that the cost per student of Texas A&M is $4110, do you?

The average cost per student at big state universities is around $30k. At some state universities, such as Michigan and Virginia, it's actually closer to $40k. You really shouldn't get into this with me, because I can link to a variety of sources that show the blood of college sports. I just did the same exercise for professional purposes as we looked at budget cuts in the SUNY system. We did a survey of programs around the US. The finances are public, it's not a mystery.

OH, and I suggest you do better research on A&M and what happens. Elsa Murano wasn't "promptly fired". She resigned. And from what I have read, she resigned because she didn't live up to the standards that were set and she was given the option of that or being fired. By resigning, she got a nice severance package. Also, if you are going to bring up her asking the AD for money back, you should make sure you have it in proper context. It was in regards to the lofty 42% salary hike that was given to him by the previous President before Murano was appointed. It was also in regards to the extraordinary expenses that the members of the Athletic staff rang up as part of the Bowl game expenses in 2008.

ROFL, everyone else but you understands that people are forced to resign. What a bunch of rationalizations.

And while A&M might have "lost" $38 million, last year, most of that was not from the Athletic Department. In fact, by all accounts, they only finished about $1 mill in the red. And most of that comes from Women's athletics where they spend $20 million to make $1 million. And much of that million comes from a huge increase in administrative salaries, including the AD getting a 42% increase in his salary and a 36.5% bonus. Not to mention a lot of questionable expenses that around from the Bowl Games and other "post season" travel.

What others who are on full scholarships are bringing more money into the Universities?? I'd love for you to explain that statement.

Football revs at Texas A&M backing out academic student fees and direct institutional support are just under $35 million. Football expenses are $26 million. So football forks over $9 million to the AD. But, not included in that $9 million profit are debt service on football infrastructure that the school pays for. ADs don't have the authority to issue bonds, but universities certainly do, and that's why any capital improvement for the football program comes out of academic coffers (unless the funds are privately raised). This is precisely what screwed Oklahoma St when they lost T Boone Pickens' $160 million during the crash. They had already paid for their stadium through university bonds, and the debt service set them back years from expanding the academic side with new buildings they needed for research grants that they had already won. They actually had to return the research grants for lack of infrastructure to conduct the research, and though TBoone came through in the end, it was years too late. This is also how Texas A&M got into a jam. Beyond debt service, you should also count the subsidy (difference between tuition and cost per student) for the football players and that's another $7 million in hidden costs, so that leaves $2 million profit for football not including debt service. Total expenditure on sports outside football and basketball (by the way) is $14.6 million, while total revenues are $7.1 million. Assuming Title 9 is complied with, half that money goes to women. So, that's a $3.5 million loss for women's sports. The fact is, Texas A&M basketball contributes more $$$ not only proportionally but in real dollars than football does.

As for who else on campus brings in big money, I'm laughing. What a question. The AD budget is a small sliver of the total school budget. $60 million is a drop in the bucket for a school with a $1.3 billion yearly budget. State taxpayer subsidy accounts for $265 million. Tuition raises $87 million, of which $53 million is redistributed to students as scholarship for a net of $34 million. Fees raise $137 million with $38 million returned to students for a net of $99 million. All told, the school gets about $400 million from students and taxpayers. The rest of that $1.3 billion, almost $900 million, comes either from the endowment and donations ($55 million) or else from faculty research grants ($845 million). Just to put sport in perspective. When you consider that the vast majority of teachers nationally are part-time (over 66% currently) who work on a per class basis ($2.5k) you can do some quick math and realize that the university exploits this labor (part-timers are mainly grad students who receive tuition remission plus the $2.5k stipend) to make huge profits. For $2.5k, the grad teaches 40 students, at $500 a credit hour, for $20k profit to the university minus operation & maintenance of buildings which is 1/6th of the university budget. So back out $3k and $2.5k (grad salary) from that $20k profit, and each grad student is worth $14.5k of profit per class, or $43.5k a year (if you teach a 2/1, which is most common at state schools, if not a 2/2).

Compare it to football. $2 million in revenues (I'm not even counting the academic debt service or the money football sends to, say, women's sports, I'm just treating the football leftover as straight profit) divided by 85 players = $23.5k a year. And the football players ALREADY make more than grad students (or other exploited employees). The key is, people volunteer for this exploitation.

I don't blame them, since without the university, these players would be plying their trade for the Podunk Vipers in SemiPro football in front of 500 fans. People pay to watch the jerseys, not the players. That's why college ball is popular.
 
Cont'd:

Lastly, I'll quote from an article:

Many outside UT seem to think that we also receive positive net income from intercollegiate athletics, since the gross income from this source seems enormous (e.g., gross income for intercollegiate athletics was $105,230,260 in 2008-2009, the latest figures available, or a little less than 5 percent of UT’s total income from all sources). But athletics expenses (e.g., $107, 283,744 in 2008-2009) are even higher than its income. To make up the difference, UT has to “transfer in” large amounts from general revenue funds such as Trademark Income. In addition, because Intercollegiate Athletics has run up an enormous debt ($222,488,000 by 2008-2009), we have to transfer even larger sums from general revenue sources to the Athletics Operations Cash reserves, so that we have enough reserves to pay our debt obligations from athletics in years that we do not go to a BCS bowl. This is necessary because when UT is not at the top of the national rankings, even the large “transfers in” to athletics from general revenues are not enough to cover our athletic department debt.

This comes from the Daily Texan written on Feb 6, 2010 by David Hillis. He provides lots of examples where vast sums of private money are raised for the university through research, and this outstrips anything football brings in (he says sports are actually a loser as you see in the above quote) even though the compensation for most faculty (66%) is minimal while grad students working on this research get less than football players.

The article is titled "The real relationship between UT’s academic and athletic budgets."

Seriously, you're barking up the wrong tree. College athletics have become a joke. If you were to complain about what coaches are being paid, I'd agree with you. UTexas had absolutely no reason to pay Mack Brown $5 million. It's not like they couldn't hire a coach who could do just as good a job for $3 million.
 
They're discouraged from getting nearly the full benefit from the education, and anyway it's high-priced to subsidize research.

The training only benefits those who ever had a shot of making the NFL.

Oh, I agree it's a problem. I'd rather they get rid of it entirely, though honestly the fact that athletes DO take advantage of the free education by graduating shows that it can be done.

But yeah, the payoffs and the system stinks. That's the whole point of what I was writing.
 
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