Now We Can Look For An Extension Or Two

[BobDigital]

At this point the 2017 commitment is at 104M about. Lets assume Amendola redoes his contract like he always does and that saves 5.3M (he goes from 7.9 to 2.6 instead of being cut and get signed through 2018)

Lets also cut McCellin and save 1.7M so that saves 7m, and brings the commitment down to 97M. Lets put the cap at 165M and remember we are carrying over nearly 8M (once incentives are paid out) from this year.

This will give the Pats 76M. Assuming you take 10M away for rookies, practice squad and rainy day fund and potential carryover that gives you 66M

Signings/Extensions

Hightower - 12M/year. This would make him only under Keuchly and the 2nd highest paid LB in the game. 5 year deal.

Butler 10M/year. This would put him about a mid level #1 CB which i think he is. He has fully bought into the Patriots way and has no injury questions or compete questions to this point. Pay him and lock him up. You may get a discount for the first year too so even though it works out to 10M a year for year 1 call it 8M. 5 year deal.

Branch 3.5M/year In line with what he was paid this year. Do it again for 1-2 years.

Sheard 6M/year. He actually hurt his position a bit so far this year but I am curious what he does in the 2nd half. Right now a solid DE but not one worthy of a huge contract. Make it a 2 yr 12M total. This would put him in the top 20 for DEs in the NFL just about. 2 year deal.

Ryan 3M/year. Any talk of Ryan getting paid this off season is now gone. He was amazing at spans last year but this year has been inconsistent but it still a pretty decent CB on the whole. This contract puts him in the mid range #2 CB pay scale. 2 year deal.

Bennett 7.5M/year. This would put him in the top 10 TEs in the NFL which is fair. 3 year deal.

Cannon 7M/year. This is a 1 year show me deal. Cannon this year is arguably the best RT in the NFL. You will need to pay a lot to keep him and you want to see if he can do it again. This would make him for this year the 2nd highest paid RT in the game... #1 is 11.25M and #2 is 6.75M but i think you probably need to pay a premium to get a 1 year look after this year. It is worth it IMO cause before you sign that big long term contract you wanna be sure.

Blount 1M/year. 1 year deal.

Let Walk

Harmon - This one hurts but i looked it up and Harmon plays 53% of the defensive snaps. The contract you would need to give to keep him simply will not justify that. It will hurt but I think he walks sadly now that I had time to think about it.

All of these contracts add up to 48M If you add odds and ends (maybe a Bolden or Develin (ect..) call it 50M and that leaves you 16M to spend on other FAs. I would look to use that money to sign a Front 6 player (I don't think we can call it front 7 anymore haha)

 

[Edelmania]

At this point the 2017 commitment is at 104M about. Lets assume Amendola redoes his contract like he always does and that saves 5.3M (he goes from 7.9 to 2.6 instead of being cut and get signed through 2018)

Lets also cut McCellin and save 1.7M so that saves 7m, and brings the commitment down to 97M. Lets put the cap at 165M and remember we are carrying over nearly 8M (once incentives are paid out) from this year.

This will give the Pats 76M. Assuming you take 10M away for rookies, practice squad and rainy day fund and potential carryover that gives you 66M

Signings/Extensions

Hightower - 12M/year. This would make him only under Keuchly and the 2nd highest paid LB in the game. 5 year deal.

Butler 10M/year. This would put him about a mid level #1 CB which i think he is. He has fully bought into the Patriots way and has no injury questions or compete questions to this point. Pay him and lock him up. You may get a discount for the first year too so even though it works out to 10M a year for year 1 call it 8M. 5 year deal.

Branch 3.5M/year In line with what he was paid this year. Do it again for 1-2 years.

Sheard 6M/year. He actually hurt his position a bit so far this year but I am curious what he does in the 2nd half. Right now a solid DE but not one worthy of a huge contract. Make it a 2 yr 12M total. This would put him in the top 20 for DEs in the NFL just about. 2 year deal.

Ryan 3M/year. Any talk of Ryan getting paid this off season is now gone. He was amazing at spans last year but this year has been inconsistent but it still a pretty decent CB on the whole. This contract puts him in the mid range #2 CB pay scale. 2 year deal.

Bennett 7.5M/year. This would put him in the top 10 TEs in the NFL which is fair. 3 year deal.

Cannon 7M/year. This is a 1 year show me deal. Cannon this year is arguably the best RT in the NFL. You will need to pay a lot to keep him and you want to see if he can do it again. This would make him for this year the 2nd highest paid RT in the game... #1 is 11.25M and #2 is 6.75M but i think you probably need to pay a premium to get a 1 year look after this year. It is worth it IMO cause before you sign that big long term contract you wanna be sure.

Blount 1M/year. 1 year deal.

Let Walk

Harmon - This one hurts but i looked it up and Harmon plays 53% of the defensive snaps. The contract you would need to give to keep him simply will not justify that. It will hurt but I think he walks sadly now that I had time to think about it.

All of these contracts add up to 48M If you add odds and ends (maybe a Bolden or Develin (ect..) call it 50M and that leaves you 16M to spend on other FAs. I would look to use that money to sign a Front 6 player (I don't think we can call it front 7 anymore haha)

For the most part I like your evaluation but there is no way Ryan will only get 3M/year. He will be able to get at least double that somewhere else. I wouldnt mind losing him though, I think Rowe will be okay and I still have faith in Jones.

 

[BobDigital]

For the most part I like your evaluation but there is no way Ryan will only get 3M/year. He will be able to get at least double that somewhere else. I wouldnt mind losing him though, I think Rowe will be okay and I still have faith in Jones.

I am not so sure. First take a look at this

Cornerback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

We think of CBs as being highly paid but it is not as many as you would think considering most teams have 3 starting CBs which pretty much which means 96 starters (we can call in 90 though).

At a quick look it seems the only people making about 5M and up are the top 32 (though some teams have more than 1 guy making that much). I looked at yearly average BTW.

So unless you see Ryan as a guy who will get paid #1 CB money he probably makes no more than 5. Personally I think this year has hurt his value a good amount and after playing the best football of his life for a 10 game span he has come back down to earth and no one will be convinced he is that kind of player.

I think 3M a year which was unthinkable at times last year seems very possible now and would put him right around the 50th or so highest CB paid which is probably how good he is on the whole (cause he can get hot and elevate his play at times.

 

[n1997y]

...
@pfk .. I guess Butler's #1 tender should be around 4M. I believe Bill likes him enough to put that on him. Long term in the neighbourhood you proposed would be better for both sides .. but the agents are too greedy and aggressive to realise that.
...

Not sure if he's changed agents, but IIRC when he first came into the league Butler's agent was a lawyer from a town near Butler's home who had exactly one client: Malcolm Butler. So he and his client might both be reasonable about taking a solid deal with a home team discount. Wouldn't be surprised if they get a chance to test the waters and the team can then decide whether to match or Butler can decide how much of discount he will accept.

Does anyone know, can an RFA re-sign with his old team for less than a qualifying offer from another team? I'd assume that if he wasn't tendered he would be a UFA and free to accept whatever terms he finds acceptable, but does that change if he is tendered?

 

[mgteich]

Does anyone know, can an RFA re-sign with his old team for less than a qualifying offer from another team? I'd assume that if he wasn't tendered he would be a UFA and free to accept whatever terms he finds acceptable, but does that change if he is tendered?

An RFA is not required to accept an offer from another team.

 

[mgteich]

I don't think that we're getting Ryan for $3M. Besides, I'd rather pay Harmon.

I am not so sure. First take a look at this

Cornerback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

We think of CBs as being highly paid but it is not as many as you would think considering most teams have 3 starting CBs which pretty much which means 96 starters (we can call in 90 though).

At a quick look it seems the only people making about 5M and up are the top 32 (though some teams have more than 1 guy making that much). I looked at yearly average BTW.

So unless you see Ryan as a guy who will get paid #1 CB money he probably makes no more than 5. Personally I think this year has hurt his value a good amount and after playing the best football of his life for a 10 game span he has come back down to earth and no one will be convinced he is that kind of player.

I think 3M a year which was unthinkable at times last year seems very possible now and would put him right around the 50th or so highest CB paid which is probably how good he is on the whole (cause he can get hot and elevate his play at times.

 

[long distance]

I don't think that we're getting Ryan for $3M. Besides, I'd rather pay Harmon.

Exactly. They have Butler and 4 other CBs besides Ryan. He's the last in line to make money here. Cyrus will stay, Rowe most probably if he doesn't completely blows it, JJ as well. At S you have no one behind McC and Chung (who's not getting any younger) and Harmon is just great asset to have no matter what snaps say. And he may be up to a significant raise of his snap count after the bye shake-up.

@bob - You're too generous w Butler and Cannon. They can have Butler for 4M for another year and wait till next if he really wants 10M/y. Re. High it might not be about M/y so much as guaranteed. Despite some minor injuries lately I believe something in the line of what Miguel proposed is possible esp. if they get it done this year. And Branch might be more expensive this time. He's Pats best DL so far.

 

[BobDigital]

Exactly. They have Butler and 4 other CBs besides Ryan. He's the last in line to make money here. Cyrus will stay, Rowe most probably if he doesn't completely blows it, JJ as well. At S you have no one behind McC and Chung (who's not getting any younger) and Harmon is just great asset to have no matter what snaps say. And he may be up to a significant raise of his snap count after the bye shake-up.

@bob - You're too generous w Butler and Cannon. They can have Butler for 4M for another year and wait till next if he really wants 10M/y. Re. High it might not be about M/y so much as guaranteed. Despite some minor injuries lately I believe something in the line of what Miguel proposed is possible esp. if they get it done this year. And Branch might be more expensive this time. He's Pats best DL so far.

On Butler yes it is doing him a solid but I think they are better off getting it locked up now than leveraging him for every dollar they can. I don't want Butler wearing any other Jersey but a Patriots one for the next 5 years anyway. Some team might over pay if you wait till FA and that puts you in a tough spot.

On Cannon I don't think I am being generous at all. Cannon has arguably been the best RT in the NFL this year. That is just how it is. It is not luck it is how he played and the NFL is a what have you done for me lately kind of league. Make no mistake Cannon will be offered a long term deal when FA comes causes teams are desperate for good young tackles. So if they want to keep him they need to match it or offer a good 1 year deal. I would rather do a 1 year deal before committing to him as my RT for the next 4-5 years and if they do 1 year it is going to have to be a good amount of money.

I am curious what you think he can be hard for with how he has played these first 8 game and if it continues.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

With Giardi saying Hightower won't take a discount, it's time to consider he may be a "tag & trade". Long time to go but while he's really good, neither he nor Collins is Keuchly. Will be interesting (though we won't know), their internal evaluations of Roberts, Mingo (also a FA but would be cheaper), Van Noy, McClellin, Freeney as that could be our LB group next year with a draft pick.

 

[BobDigital]

I also want to note the FA class of 2017 isn't all that good from the looks of it except for D line and I would not mind snagging one up.

 

[long distance]

On Butler yes it is doing him a solid but I think they are better off getting it locked up now than leveraging him for every dollar they can. I don't want Butler wearing any other Jersey but a Patriots one for the next 5 years anyway. Some team might over pay if you wait till FA and that puts you in a tough spot.

On Cannon I don't think I am being generous at all. Cannon has arguably been the best RT in the NFL this year. That is just how it is. It is not luck it is how he played and the NFL is a what have you done for me lately kind of league. Make no mistake Cannon will be offered a long term deal when FA comes causes teams are desperate for good young tackles. So if they want to keep him they need to match it or offer a good 1 year deal. I would rather do a 1 year deal before committing to him as my RT for the next 4-5 years and if they do 1 year it is going to have to be a good amount of money.

I am curious what you think he can be hard for with how he has played these first 8 game and if it continues.

Cannon is not the worst RT like most people here claimed not long ago, and he's certainly not the best like some might read latest ratings etc. He is a solid player under terrific guidance this year who has room to improve but not too much upside IMO. I think their original assessment on previous contract (bashed by fans) was right on the money and I would see something in that neighbourhood going forward maybe a little bonus if he can keep the good work. I dont understand your one year “show me“ idea since they know him very well, they never doubted him .. its only fans that go up and (mostly) down on him. I agree w OP that mid-season extension is possible and reasonable.

I expect they will not go overboard since he's not the greatest need. Fleming is coming along nicely and has more upside in my view. Moreover it looks like there will be plenty of starting OTs available in FA. This can affect also Solder's position if his game doesn't solidify in the important part of the season (which I believe it will).

 

[long distance]

With Giardi saying Hightower won't take a discount, it's time to consider he may be a "tag & trade". Long time to go but while he's really good, neither he nor Collins is Keuchly. Will be interesting (though we won't know), their internal evaluations of Roberts, Mingo (also a FA but would be cheaper), Van Noy, McClellin, Freeney as that could be our LB group next year with a draft pick.

I don't think what any media guy says will have the slightest impact on High-Pats proceedings.
No need he gives discount. He's no Kuechly like Collins was not Von. And everybody (around the league) knows that.
I very much believe he stays (and for a long time baring injury) like I believed Collins will go (not this way though).

 

[Hammer of Thor]

With Giardi saying Hightower won't take a discount, it's time to consider he may be a "tag & trade". Long time to go but while he's really good, neither he nor Collins is Keuchly. Will be interesting (though we won't know), their internal evaluations of Roberts, Mingo (also a FA but would be cheaper), Van Noy, McClellin, Freeney as that could be our LB group next year with a draft pick.

Other players didn't take a discount to play with the Pats either:

- Richard Seymour, largest contract at his position
- Vince Wilfork, largest contract at his position
- Logan Mankins, largest contract at his position

They all resigned with the Pats. They were also the best (or top 2) at what they did in the NFL at the time.

Is Kuechly really the best comparable for what Hightower does? For Collins yes, but Hightower?

We'll see how it plays out. How Hightower responds to Collins' loss both on the field and off may be the final factor Belichick uses to determine if Hightower is worth the elite money.

 

[deroc5050]

The problem/issue with extending Hightower is his Durability. Butler is a restricted FA, and Bennet its to early to tell. I am not sure the Pats want to pay 2 top dollar TE's. I have said this in a couple of threads but I think this off season is going to be Belichicks toughest as far as who to keep and who to let walk.

It is getting easier though because you already made 1 decision with Collins.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Is Kuechly really the best comparable for what Hightower does? For Collins yes, but Hightower?

I didn't intend to compare their play directly. But Keuchly is a top three LB in the NFL. Is Hightower ? No, even before factoring in his missed games. I love Hightower and definitely hope he stays long term but if he's going to get north of $12M a year it may be somewhere else. I made up that number but if he's not taking a discount to stay with a winner, he may end up elsewhere.

 

[TBR]

I am not so sure. First take a look at this

Cornerback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

We think of CBs as being highly paid but it is not as many as you would think considering most teams have 3 starting CBs which pretty much which means 96 starters (we can call in 90 though).

At a quick look it seems the only people making about 5M and up are the top 32 (though some teams have more than 1 guy making that much). I looked at yearly average BTW.

So unless you see Ryan as a guy who will get paid #1 CB money he probably makes no more than 5. Personally I think this year has hurt his value a good amount and after playing the best football of his life for a 10 game span he has come back down to earth and no one will be convinced he is that kind of player.

I think 3M a year which was unthinkable at times last year seems very possible now and would put him right around the 50th or so highest CB paid which is probably how good he is on the whole (cause he can get hot and elevate his play at times.

The other day I read on here that Solder was better than Joe Thomas.

Now Cannon is the best RT in the league?

I never call out "homerism", but damn. They're playing well, but these are quite the stretches.

 

[supafly]

With Giardi saying Hightower won't take a discount, it's time to consider he may be a "tag & trade". Long time to go but while he's really good, neither he nor Collins is Keuchly. Will be interesting (though we won't know), their internal evaluations of Roberts, Mingo (also a FA but would be cheaper), Van Noy, McClellin, Freeney as that could be our LB group next year with a draft pick.

I would think that there's a much better possibility that they'd just apply the tag and continue to try and negotiate throughout 2017.

Let's hope they can lock him up because your list of LBs above doesn't look too hot to me.

If we can somehow get Raekwon McMillian from OSU to fall to us in the first round, Jamie Collins would be a distant memory.

 

[BobDigital]

The other day I read on here that Solder was better than Joe Thomas.

Now Cannon is the best RT in the league?

I never call out "homerism", but damn. They're playing well, but these are quite the stretches.

I didn't say he was the best but i did say he was having arguably the best year. For instance I would not say Matt Ryan is the 2nd best QB in the NFL but I would say he is playing the 2nd best this year.

Do you see what I am saying?

That is why I'd like to sign him to a 1 year deal to see if he can reproduce it cause i am like everyone else skeptical of his ability to keep this up.