NFL Live Says Pat's D Too Old

[Oswlek]

I don't see how our DB's have somehow gotten worse from the end of last season and the playoffs where they were playing very well to now. In your minds, what has changed? The only difference is Harrison. He he playing so badly that the entire secondary is suffering?

Bingo. I thought the pass rush was much worse than the coverage this past game.

Sure the have had a few tackling gaffs that led to beg plays. While it is mildly concerning, I am much more concerned about the fact that NE got minimal pressure against Buffalo and Denver. The Jet OL held NE at bay during their mini-run as well, considering the last play that Pennington was really under pressure was the Crotchery TD.

 

[zippo59]

Bingo. I thought the pass rush was much worse than the coverage this past game.

Sure the have had a few tackling gaffs that led to beg plays. While it is mildly concerning, I am much more concerned about the fact that NE got minimal pressure against Buffalo and Denver. The Jet OL held NE at bay during their mini-run as well, considering the last play that Pennington was really under pressure was the Crotchery TD.

This is why I'm not panicking. It's like what Mike Reiss said, if Tom Brady is your biggest problem then order your Superbowl tickets now. Similarly, if this front seven is your biggest defensive problem, with all the talent along the D-line and in the linebackers, then things are pretty good. This defensive line is just too good to not start being absolutely dominant eventually. And we all know what Tedy B, Colvin, and Vrabel can do, as well as Seau as a role player. It is like last year where the defense couldn't really get pressure through the first half of the season, but once Tedy B returned and the front seven gelled as a unit, boom, sack city. Additionally, once the front seven started playin great, the secondary started playing better too. The biggest help for a secondary is a good pass rush.

Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Bruschi, Vrabel, Colvin, add to that Green, Seau, Wright......how can you not be lovin that?

 

[Hawg 73]

This is the youngest Pat's team that BB has ever had!

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

The defense seemed to be pretty good last year without those two players.

I think the defense is just not fast enough and lacks playmakers. They are stout up front and the bug guys are the best, but behind them I honestly think they need more speed. I beleive this is the reason for alck of turnovers this season and last season. They are always a second late blitzing to the qb. I think vrabel has slowed down just a little bit and would be best suited for inside.

You look at Dallas and they have Demarcus Ware and San Diego has Shawn Merriman, Chicago has Urlacher. The PAts have a bunch of solid players in the linebacker and secondary but they don't have any difference makers. They have been always a split second late.

The one thing you have to wonder that Rod Smith mentionned is that the Pats have changed their scheme slightly. Are the Pats just uncomfortable now and will get use to it.

But I truly beleive they need a little more speed in the secondary and definitely linebacker behind that awesome d-line.

 

[zippo59]

I don't know what could be responsible for Vrabel's slow down, if it is true. He is not very old nor has he suffered any significant injury that we know of.

I think Rosevelt Colvin and Tully Banta-Cain would fall under the category of speed-rushing linebackers that mentions.

I guess I just don't understand how a defense that was overall effective at the end of one year could be ineffective at the beginning of the next, especially considering minimal change, and the little change that did occurr seems to be mostly positive. Seau is better than Beisel, and now there is Harrison as well as Hawkins. I'd say the only loss that does not seem to have a clear replacement in McGuinest, but he was no spring chicken. Also it stands to be seen if Banta-Cain might take on more of his duties.

 

[Mosi Moose]

just did the math--our starting defense is 28.36 yrs old. Yeah--that's ancient. Find me a team that's younger and better. These guys are idiots. What if this "old" defense beats CIN on Sunday? What will they say then?

 

[MrTibbs]

I don't see how our DB's have somehow gotten worse from the end of last season and the playoffs where they were playing very well to now. In your minds, what has changed? The only difference is Harrison. He he playing so badly that the entire secondary is suffering?

No it's not Harrison......Samules(Suspect) and Hobbs(average) haven't been the answers since starting. When Law went down way back do you remember all the passing yards they were giving up? Yeah they made a play or two but teams were passing like crazy against that secondary. Now go to last season in which Samuels got abused on a regular basis. Only 10 picks in total on the year as a team. In so many words the secondary hasn't been good in a LONG TIME.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

just did the math--our starting defense is 28.36 yrs old. Yeah--that's ancient. Find me a team that's younger and better. These guys are idiots. What if this "old" defense beats CIN on Sunday? What will they say then?

The age thing is pretty stupid, because the youth is concentrated in the d-line and secondary. The linebackers are the ones who are up in age.

Look at when Ted Washington was here, he clearly had an impact on the "age average".

So the age thing means nothing. Look how fast denvers linebacking core was. The pats had difficulty getting around the edge while tatum got around the edge several times. If the pats get at least one very fast good linebacker, maybe two, but at least one and a faster cornerback they'll be in good shape.

I think Asante is not gonna be here next year. He clearly is the one getting picked on which means people are staying away from hobbs just a little more.

 

[ilduce06410]

fast or footwork?

Exactly...i saw the pitt defense harass palmer...i doubt we can do that just because we dont have the speed of pitt..

seems to me ourboys have been clydesdales for a while. but they get to the ball, make the play. IMHO its because they never seemed to take a wrong step, very little wasted motion.
i dont know if BB would find a player like jboss bailey to be at all attractive in a draft. BB seems to want big beefy LBs who can take on OGs and TEs. those DLs are fast, tho. don't understimate.

 

[brady et al fan]

I don't agree. The only defensive players who can be considered "up there" are Rodney Harrison, Tedy Bruschi, and Junior Seau, none of which you can really say that their age is really showing through in their play. Harrison has not been his past self but that is most likely due to his injury, and there is reason to beleive his play will improve as his injury improves.

Other than those three players, the rest of the defense is relatively young. Vince Wilfork, Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Jarvis Green, Mike Wright, Rosevelt Colvin, Mike Vrabel, Tully Banta-Cain, Ellis Hobbs, Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel, Artrell Hawkins, and James Sanders are all either in the prime of their careers or have yet to enter it. I agree the defense has not played particularly well but I don't think you can blame it on the players being old.

The problem is, Bruschi and Harrison, who you acknowledge to be old, were the heart and soul of our last 2 super bowl teams. I've made the same observation as these network dummies. These guys look old and slow. Maybe they are not all old but as a unit, esp. the linebackers and the backfield, they have looked very slow.

Watch SD, Jax, Denver, Cincy. These guys look a lot more like the 2004 Pats than we do do.

I'm still holding out hope that Rodney finds his legs and becomes the intimidator again but my bigger concern is that Tedy's best days are past him. And for the Pats to go anywhere this year they need these 2 guys to be their studs.

 

[Miguel]

just did the math--our starting defense is 28.36 yrs old. Yeah--that's ancient. Find me a team that's younger and better.

The Chargers
The Bears
The Steelers
Maybe the Ravens
Maybe the Panthers
Maybe the Jaguars
Maybe the Bills
Maybe the Bengals
Maybe the Seahawks
Maybe the Saints

--
Miguel (who wonders how many other teams start 4 players over the age of 30)

 

[zippo59]

The bottom line is the defense has played well enough for us to win these past three weeks. They have by no means been perfect or even dominant but if the offense was in stride I think we would be 3-0.

If I can sum up Belichicks style as the Pats head coach over the past few years (besides winning Superbowls ) it's how the team usually starts out decent but not all-world and then progresses and grows each week so that when the playoffs role around they the Champion caliber teams we have seen. Before I realized this I remember watching games during September and October and thinking this team isn't going to go anywhere and then they would go on to win the Superbowl.

Some teams start out looking great so they snag all the media acclaim but just can't sustain it in the latter part of the season and the playoffs (Indy).

 

[the taildragger]

it's just so predictable.

The average lifespan for talking head snap judgements is about 24 hours.

They change day to day...and often from one extreme to another (i.e. "TB is to WRs as Pavlov is to dogs" from the preseason...to this week: "He's lost his will to win, and he's hampered by a weak shoulder, and he's missing wide open targets.")

since we're rightfully six point dogs this week and playing a team that's clicking way more than we are through three weeks, they're all jumping off the bandwagon (the same bandwagon they were about 2-years too late to jump on in the first place).

JUST WAIT TIL NEXT WEEK! (should we lose this one convincingly and snap the 2-game losing streak record).

I'm telling you we'll be lucky to break into the top-20 in the power polls (anyone else concerned that Prisco is the only guy who still likes us?...very troubling!)

we're THREE MONTHS from the postseason! we shouldn't be in this spot to begin with ($17M under cap) but I'm not going to reopen old wounds...they'll get their asses in gear...PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE.

...but for now, we might want to tune out at least for one more week. I'm not buying into this whole "letdown" theory for Cincy...they had us circled too...every team does -- I don't care what the polls say, it's another statement game for them...and unlike last week, they're facing a real QB this time.

Cincy still needs to address the protection issues they had last week against their backup Center, and show the League that Palmer can handle pressure and the line can handle basic stunts up the middle, and that Willie Parker's performance won't be repeated.

It's our job to prove otherwise, but let's be realistic: it's week 4, they're clicking, we're clearly not. we'll need to play like denver plays us: flawlessly. I'm not holding my breath. anything positive is a bonus...no letdown this week.

another consecutive week of depression = prozac.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

it's just so predictable.

The average lifespan for talking head snap judgements is about 24 hours.

They change day to day...and often from one extreme to another (i.e. "TB is to WRs as Pavlov is to dogs" from the preseason...to this week: "He's lost his will to win, and he's hampered by a weak shoulder, and he's missing wide open targets.")

since we're rightfully six point dogs this week and playing a team that's clicking way more than we are through three weeks, they're all jumping off the bandwagon (the same bandwagon they were about 2-years too late to jump on in the first place).

JUST WAIT TIL NEXT WEEK! (should we lose this one convincingly and snap the 2-game losing streak record).

I'm telling you we'll be lucky to break into the top-20 in the power polls (anyone else concerned that Prisco is the only guy who still likes us?...very troubling!)

we're THREE MONTHS from the postseason! we shouldn't be in this spot to begin with ($17M under cap) but I'm not going to reopen old wounds...they'll get their asses in gear...PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE.

...but for now, we might want to tune out at least for one more week. I'm not buying into this whole "letdown" theory for Cincy...they had us circled too...every team does -- I don't care what the polls say, it's another statement game for them...and unlike last week, they're facing a real QB this time.

Cincy still needs to address the protection issues they had last week against their backup Center, and show the League that Palmer can handle pressure and the line can handle basic stunts up the middle, and that Willie Parker's performance won't be repeated.

It's our job to prove otherwise, but let's be realistic: it's week 4, they're clicking, we're clearly not. we'll need to play like denver plays us: flawlessly. I'm not holding my breath. anything positive is a bonus...no letdown this week.

another consecutive week of depression = prozac.

I don't think the pats will need to play flawlessly. You act like the Pats are going up against an unstoppable team. One thing the Pats have going for them is Carson is not going to scramble. Denver had better linebacker depth than Cinncy so maybe they can exploit the edges. And most important of all Brady needs to stretch the field a bit so the safeties don't creep up so much. Then he can utilize the underneath. I'm still waiting for Ben Watson down the seam a little more. Let's pray Jackson plays and doesn't have work ethic and atitude issues. And let's hope Gabriel and Brady get a little chemistry. If the pats can't run the ball they are in trouble which is an obvious statement.