McClellin could return to practice this week.

[Ring 6]

.

 

[Kontradiction]

.

 

[Ring 6]

.

 

[Kontradiction]

.

 

[NE-VT]

I actually enjoyed the whole conversation before it turned into a cat fight. Oh well, the Sanu topic might be dead now beyond repair. @AndyJohnson perhaps you don't have the time, the access to the all-22s, or the desire to find evidence in the tape. You were trying to make a production argument. Many of us wanted to see examples. Its all good man.

I started a reddit post on r/falcons to try to get the opinions of folks who watch more Sanu film. Maybe we will get some insightful responses. I thought the first one was pretty good:

From my perspective: Sanu has fantastic hands (I don't know what his drop numbers are, but the eye test would dispute any of that). There has to be something said about matt ryan having 2 safety blankets. Red zone target. big physical reciever like jones, opens up both jones AND the run game much more. Huge part of why we were so successful within 20 last year. His numbers aren't where his value comes from. football outsider analytics is probably comparing him to #2's in less diverse offenses.

This guy is an incredible outside run blocker (they bunch him tight on sweeps rather often). He is a super clean route runner. And he doesn't not demand coverage (if that makes sense). Basically you don't have to double him, but single can be dangerous.

Sanu opens up soooo much gameplan wise. Having taylor gabriel opposite Jones is a different ballgame. Gabriel is a speedster so has 2 types of plays, bubble screen or deep ball. By having 2 physical guys, the amount of misdirection is insane. You throw gabriel up field to take the top, in addition to all this, and you have a mix of threats that is pretty damn perfect.

Question about Sanu's value from friendly outsider • r/falcons

 

[Kontradiction]

I actually enjoyed the whole conversation before it turned into a cat fight. Oh well, the Sanu topic might be dead now beyond repair. @AndyJohnson perhaps you don't have the time, the access to the all-22s, or the desire to find evidence in the tape. You were trying to make a production argument. Many of us wanted to see examples. Its all good man.

I started a reddit post on r/falcons to try to get the opinions of folks who watch more Sanu film. Maybe we will get some insightful responses. I thought the first one was pretty good:



Question about Sanu's value from friendly outsider • r/falcons

Thank you. This was honestly something that I was looking for.

 

[RDS11]

Just a thought : using Andy's logic, Chris Hogan (also a #2 WR) cannot get open as well. In 2016, Hogan played almost 100 more snaps than Sanu did, and he was targeted 30 times less than Sanu was. And Hogan's numbers from last year were actually the best he ever got.

Funny for someone who called '7-Eleven' because he's always open...

 

[Ring 6]

Just a thought : using Andy's logic, Chris Hogan (also a #2 WR) cannot get open as well. In 2016, Hogan played almost 100 more snaps than Sanu did, and he was targeted 30 times less than Sanu was. And Hogan's numbers from last year were actually the best he ever got.

Funny for someone who called '7-Eleven' because he's always open...

Given the routes hogan ran last year he did stuggke to get open. That's no secret. But he led the league or close to it in ypc.
If that were sanu's role I'd expect him to produce like hogan. It the track record says he can't.
I mean if you think hogan in 2016 with 38 catches is the perfect #2 and was always open I'm not sure what to say.

 

[Ring 6]

I actually enjoyed the whole conversation before it turned into a cat fight. Oh well, the Sanu topic might be dead now beyond repair. @AndyJohnson perhaps you don't have the time, the access to the all-22s, or the desire to find evidence in the tape. You were trying to make a production argument. Many of us wanted to see examples. Its all good man.

I started a reddit post on r/falcons to try to get the opinions of folks who watch more Sanu film. Maybe we will get some insightful responses. I thought the first one was pretty good:



Question about Sanu's value from friendly outsider • r/falcons

No I have no interest in going through film to prove that a guy who isn't getting the ball thrown to him much is having trouble getting open.
I'm also not going to watch film to determine it snowed last winter.
Sorry, wiseass comment wasn't directed at you.

Bottom line the job of a wr is to get open and catch the football. Saying a guy with poor production is just as good as a guy with better production because the other guy was lucky enough to get more targets is ignoring that's it's his job to earn the target.

I'm not sure asking Atlanta fans to critique one if their players short comings is worthwhile.
I mean the issue is his production is weak but Falcons fans think they gave the greatest offense in history so of course they will make excuses. That's what I would expect at least.
Look here we already have a post saying that production can't be important because that would mean Chris hogan isn't open whenever he wants to be.

 

[RDS11]

No I have no interest in going through film to prove that a guy who isn't getting the ball thrown to him much is having trouble getting open.
I'm also not going to watch film to determine it snowed last winter.
Sorry, wiseass comment wasn't directed at you.

Bottom line the job of a wr is to get open and catch the football. Saying a guy with poor production is just as good as a guy with better production because the other guy was lucky enough to get more targets is ignoring that's it's his job to earn the target.

I'm not sure asking Atlanta fans to critique one if their players short comings is worthwhile.
I mean the issue is his production is weak but Falcons fans think they gave the greatest offense in history so of course they will make excuses. That's what I would expect at least.
Look here we already have a post saying that production can't be important because that would mean Chris hogan isn't open whenever he wants to be.

Again, classic Andy's twisted logic. The Hogan comparison just provide one example of why using targets as the basis for being able to get open or not doesn't make sense.

Atlanta was the #1 offense in points scored last year. Sanu was the 2nd most targeted Falcon, had had a catch ratio of 73% (best Falcon catch ratio among non RB). Saying that this guy is a JAG based on statistics alone is plain stupid.

You want to stick to your analysis ? Provide videos, because the stats do not backup your claim.

 

[Deus Irae]

No.

Yes

 

[Ring 6]

Again, classic Andy's twisted logic. The Hogan comparison just provide one example of why using targets as the basis for being able to get open or not doesn't make sense.

Whoa hold on there. I didn't use targets asa basis for anything.
I said sanu doesn't produce and got a response that his production is fine because he must doesnt get targets. I do not agree with that because a good wr who gets open earns targets and when you are WR2 targets arexthere fircthr taking.

Atlanta was the #1 offense in points scored last year. Sanu was the 2nd most targeted Falcon, had had a catch ratio of 73% (best Falcon catch ratio among non RB). Saying that this guy is a JAG based on statistics alone is plain stupid.

His production is mediocre. Mediocre=JAG why is that difficult to understand

You want to stick to your analysis ? Provide videos, because the stats do not backup your claim.

If you think a wr who has zero 100 yard games and is under 60 in 17 of 22 and AVERAGES 43 receiving yards a game needs to be analyzed on tape to determine whether he is good then you can also go back and watch film to see if it snowed last winter.

59 catches 653 yards and 4 TDs is mediocre or worse production for a WR2. Do you dispute that?

 

[Ring 6]

Yes

So 997 yards and 12 TDS is pretty much the same as 653 and 4?

 

[RDS11]

59 catches 653 yards and 4 TDs is mediocre or worse production for a WR2. Do you dispute that?

Yes, I do. You take the stats without context. First, being a 2nd WR in one of the highest scoring offense of all time is telling. Second, he had the 2nd most receptions on that 7th highest scoring offense of all-time. Third, he played behind a possible future Hall Of Famer in Julio Jones, so it will take some catches away from him (and he played behind Green in Cincy) because the guy in front is so good.

 

[supafly]

I actually enjoyed the whole conversation before it turned into a cat fight. Oh well, the Sanu topic might be dead now beyond repair. @AndyJohnson perhaps you don't have the time, the access to the all-22s, or the desire to find evidence in the tape. You were trying to make a production argument. Many of us wanted to see examples. Its all good man.

I started a reddit post on r/falcons to try to get the opinions of folks who watch more Sanu film. Maybe we will get some insightful responses. I thought the first one was pretty good:



Question about Sanu's value from friendly outsider • r/falcons

Not meaning to stray away from the Sanu topic, but I found it interesting that the Falcons fan brought up the obvious re: the use of Gabriel on bubble screens. This is something that Ive been pounding the table for with Philip Dorsett. It's baffling to me why we're not using that more often to take advantage of his speed on such a basic play.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, I do. You take the stats without context. First, being a 2nd WR in one of the highest scoring offense of all time is telling. Second, he had the 2nd most receptions on that 7th highest scoring offense of all-time. Third, he played behind a possible future Hall Of Famer in Julio Jones, so it will take some catches away from him (and he played behind Green in Cincy) because the guy in front is so good.

Ok we disagree. I expect my WR2 to have more than 15% of the receptions, 13% of the yards and 10% of the TD receptions.
You are happy with that.
Nothing more to say.

 

[Ring 6]

Not meaning to stray away from the Sanu topic, but I found it interesting that the Falcons fan brought up the obvious re: the use of Gabriel on bubble screens. This is something that Ive been pounding the table for with Philip Dorsett. It's baffling to me why we're not using that more often to take advantage of his speed on such a basic play.

I've always been curious at the Xs and Os of us using that. Sometimes it's a staple of the offense and other times it's non existent.
It has to be related to the scheme. I would imagine we like to use it vs cover 3? I could see it vs man when the corner is off but there are definitely coverages we think it's a bad call against.

 

[Kontradiction]

No I have no interest in going through film to prove that a guy who isn't getting the ball thrown to him much is having trouble getting open.
I'm also not going to watch film to determine it snowed last winter.
Sorry, wiseass comment wasn't directed at you.

Bottom line the job of a wr is to get open and catch the football. Saying a guy with poor production is just as good as a guy with better production because the other guy was lucky enough to get more targets is ignoring that's it's his job to earn the target.

I'm not sure asking Atlanta fans to critique one if their players short comings is worthwhile.
I mean the issue is his production is weak but Falcons fans think they gave the greatest offense in history so of course they will make excuses. That's what I would expect at least.
Look here we already have a post saying that production can't be important because that would mean Chris hogan isn't open whenever he wants to be.

I thought you went through the film and that's where you saw that Sanu's PRIMARY REASON for not getting targets was that he wasn't getting open as opposed to playing with two pass catching backs, Julio Jones, different game plans re: his responsibilities, etc. You're now saying that you didn't and you have no interest in really doing so, which indicates that you haven't gone through any sort of film in the first place. With that in mind (since you're clearly not "done"), let's come back to it: Where are you drawing your conclusion? What information are you using that leads you to rebut other factors that we've both pointed out and come out with the conclusion that he's not getting targets simply because he's not getting open? In other words, where is the proof that you have to back your claim? And yes, once again, the onus is squarely on you... the person who made the claim.

 

[Deus Irae]

So 997 yards and 12 TDS is pretty much the same as 653 and 4?

The post I responded to, from NE-VT, was about receptions. I get that you like to move the goalposts, but I won't be playing along.

I'm not a fan of Sanu, and I didn't want him for the Patriots when he was available. I don't think he's a particularly good WR. That doesn't make your argument any better, though.

 

[Ring 6]

I thought you went through the film and that's where you saw that Sanu's PRIMARY REASON for not getting targets was that he wasn't getting open as opposed to playing with two pass catching backs, Julio Jones, different game plans re: his responsibilities, etc. You're now saying that you didn't and you have no interest in really doing so, which indicates that you haven't gone through any sort of film in the first place. With that in mind (since you're clearly not "done"), let's come back to it: Where are you drawing your conclusion? What information are you using that leads you to rebut other factors that we've both pointed out and come out with the conclusion that he's not getting targets simply because he's not getting open? In other words, where is the proof that you have to back your claim? And yes, once again, the onus is squarely on you... the person who made the claim.

I'm done. Not with the topic with the way you are choosing to discuss it.