Mario Williams watch

[RobertWeathers]

I'll say this. I'm somewhat in favor of trading Jones and signing Williams, but let's be real, BB defense is much more similar to Rex's than it is Wade Phillips or Pete Carroll's.

Yes but as we have seen, the evolution of this defense has been to be more attacking in nature.

 

[AzorianPats]

The sack was on a scramble attempt as Smith was flushed out of the pocket.

Are we nit-picking on sacks now?

On that sack? Yes. If smith doesnt trip, no way thats a sack.

If thats the type of sacks you want from a 10+mill a year guy, thats a disappointment.

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

My main beef with Chandler Jones (who is our best defensive end in a long time..so I'm no Jones hater) is that he doesn't show up in big spots (unlike Ninkovich who is an exact opposite of Jones, get to that in a second) .. He dissapears vs the good competion , late in games/season. He was a first Rd pick, and his stats are pretty good = pretty big chunk of change in the market.

Looking at it in that way... If they are going to pour money into that position I'd want a resume that includes dominating elite LTs on occasion, taking over games late in games, game sealing sacks ...etc. Jones just isn't that guy.

That all said, if we trade him I'd want a Kings ransom because he is a GOOD player.

Hightowers, Collins an Butlers play is more tied into our overall success than Jones is.

Nink isn't a good as Jones..yet if you were to ask me to guess and name one player who would come through late in a game with a huge , game changing play on defense ...Nink would be one of the first if not the first name Id come up with. So think about that... Nink is cheaper and comes up bigger, looking at it in that lens makes it hard to justify throwing money at Jones.

 

[RobertWeathers]

On that sack? Yes. If smith doesnt trip, no way thats a sack.

If thats the type of sacks you want from a 10+mill a year guy, thats a disappointment.

Using one play to make a judgement call on value of a player is silly.

You don't think Jones is a critical part of this defense and that's fine.

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

Using one play to make a judgement call on value of a player is silly.

You don't think Jones is a critical part of this defense and that's fine.

I think he is a critical part just not as critical as : Hightower, Collins, Butler and losing him would be the easier pill go swallow considering : Flowers, Sheard, Easley,Hightower, Collins , Nink can all get after the QB too.

 

[AzorianPats]

Using one play to make a judgement call on value of a player is silly.

You don't think Jones is a critical part of this defense and that's fine.

Ive said hes a very good player, but hes not dominate.

Also in 2014 he missed almost 2 months of games due to injuries against QBs like Rodgers, Rivers, Manning (pre sucking) and the defense never missed a beat.

Compare that to how our defense looked last year when Collins and Hightower were out. Hes nowhere on that level.

Its easy to see his stat line on NFL.com and fall in love with the 12.5 sacks, but hes not that guy.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think he is a critical part just not as critical as : Hightower, Collins, Butler and

....and I don't disagree with that statement at all. However as I've stated in other posts I believe people need to evaluate his worth based on his recent performance and complete body of work and not based on a comparison to other players on the roster.

Saying Jones is worth $10 but the team is unable to pay him is a reasonable thing to say.

Saying Jones is not worth $10m because of performance-related concerns or comparing him to his positional peers at that pay scale is also a reasonable thing to say.

Saying Jones is not worth $10m because he had a clean up sack and he isn't as valuable as High, Jamie and Malcolm is silly.

losing him would be the easier pill go swallow considering : Flowers, Sheard, Easley,Hightower, Collins , Nink can all get after the QB too.

Those are absolutely true statements. Not sure about Flowers though but he did have a few decent plays here and there before he got hurt.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ive said hes a very good player, but hes not dominate.

Also in 2014 he missed almost 2 months of games due to injuries against QBs like Rodgers, Rivers, Manning (pre sucking) and the defense never missed a beat.

Compare that to how our defense looked last year when Collins and Hightower were out. Hes nowhere on that level.

Its easy to see his stat line on NFL.com and fall in love with the 12.5 sacks, but hes not that guy.

Look at my post below. My issue with what you are saying might be a little clearer.

 

[AzorianPats]

Look at my post below. My issue with what you are saying might be a little clearer.

And my thing with what your saying is in this instance, you have to compare whos more valuable between the 4, because all their contracts are up at the same time, and you cant keep them all.

 

[Love The Drake]

chandler jones for Gordon or Calvin sounds good to me.

 

[RobertWeathers]

And my thing with what your saying is in this instance, you have to compare whos more valuable between the 4, because all their contracts are up at the same time, and you cant keep them all.

Of course.

We understand each other.

 

[RobertWeathers]

chandler jones for Gordon or Calvin sounds good to me.

I'm assuming you don't mean "straight up"

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

Saying Jones is not worth $10m because of performance-related concerns or comparing him to his positional peers at that pay scale is also a reasonable thing to say

Enlightenment .. That is exactly what I am saying.
Also, Hightower, Collins, Butler and Jones have expiring contracts in the same or close to the same time frame. That also has to be factored into the equation wether we like it or not.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Enlightenment .. That is exactly what I am saying.
Also, Hightower, Collins, Butler and Jones have expiring contracts in the same or close to the same time frame. That also has to be factored into the equation wether we like it or not.

Of course.

 

[Love The Drake]

I'm assuming you don't mean "straight up"

As bad as we have been drafting wrs Straight up isnt ideal but I would do it at this point.
vs watching him walk away in free agency getting a late third comp pick to draft another Tavon Richards or Josh Dobson no thank you.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I never said dismantle it, just think he can be more productive in a lesser role, keep him more fresh.

You are talking about replacing both starting ends and that's dismantling it Imo.

 

[RobertWeathers]

As bad as we have been drafting wrs Straight up isnt ideal but I would do it at this point.
vs watching him walk away in free agency getting a late third comp pick to draft another Tavon Richards or Josh Dobson no thank you.

Gordon is a Miller Lite away from a lifetime ban and Johnson is over 30 and not what he was 3 years ago.

Jones is 26, in his prime and just had a season in which he performed as one of the top 10 pass rushers in the NFL.

I hear what you are saying but a 1:1 is not a good deal for the Patriots.

 

[Marqui]

Couldn't disagree any more he has been their most consistent DL and always shows up in big games. Their DL is the best unit on the team And I really don't get the desire by some here to start dismantling it.

He "always" shows up in big games? What plays did he make against Denver when the team needed it?

 

[Huckleberry1]

He "always" shows up in big games? What plays did he make against Denver when the team needed it?

Anyone who doesn't think Ninkovich has been a big game player for the Patriots hasn't watched their playoff games. You guys act like the Denver game is the only game this team had ever played.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Andre Johnson is completely done.