Lots of good players getting second round tenders

[Rob0729]

The Pats didn't sign Welker to an offer sheet they outright traded for him. The rumor was that they were considering doing so but backed out. I don't view it as good business for the NFL on the whole to have those type of contracts. I would be beyond shocked if we see them come back.

Ummm... Yes, the Pats did sign Welker to an offer sheet. What they did was sweeten the pot for the Dolphins to not wait the full week to try to match the offer by throwing in a seventh rounder. But yes, the Pats did officially offer Welker an offer sheet and all signs pointed to the Dolphins not matching it, but the Pats didn't want to risk it and threw in a bone to get the transaction done quickly.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Can't we slip in a lil' poison pill action?

Yeah, like 'player must be highest paid RB on team'. Hello, $8M per year RB Reggie Bush.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That is not exactly true, they can trade their pick or any equivalent round pick they hold that is higher. The rule on tendering RFA's states a team wishing to sign a player to an offer sheet must have the requisite trade compensation (or better) available. So if you want to go after a RFA you have to have your picks or better in the prescribed round(s)... Ergo a team without the requisite picks could trade for the requisite pick or picks but they would have be better than the picks they were looking to replace (their original pick/s in those rounds they no longer have).

That said, as deep as this draft is purported to be I don't think BB will be terribly active in the RFA market. I don't think anyone will. Because you have to sign that player to a contract he'd be willing to accept, perhaps with unpalatable poison pill provisions (which Kraft chose to avoid in 2007 and likely would not choose to employ at this juncture), and with the looming lockout in 2011 I just don't see very many teams who are going to be willing to trade for the opportunity to hand out bonus money to guys who have never played for them and who may not play at all in another year...unless they see this situation or that player as a once in a lifetime oportunity.

I think the situation is still pretty fluid. With the Pats payroll pretty low, talent needs abundent to both be competitive now and in the future, if things don't go as planned during FA period (signing Wilfork, Bodden etc.) or the players that the Pats have targeted in the draft either have unsavory agents or potential trading partners for where the player projects to be drafted, the Pats very well may tender 1 or 2 RFAs.

 

[mgteich]

The partiots will not make an offer the saints can't afford to match. I doubt that the pats will make an offer to any team for any player that a team can't AFFORD to match.

And no, poison pills aren't what they used to be.

I'm not saying we shouldn't try. After all, we may make an offer that a team will not CHOOSE to match.

The Saints might not have a choice. If the Pats (or any other team) make Thomas a contract offer that the Saints can't afford to match, they can't block the trade. It isn't like the Pats have to make an offer to trade for Thomas. They sign him to an offer sheet and the Saints have a week to match or lose the player for a second rounder. The Saints don't have a lot of money and a lot of free agents to resign.

 

[Sleeping King]

Ummm... Yes, the Pats did sign Welker to an offer sheet. What they did was sweeten the pot for the Dolphins to not wait the full week to try to match the offer by throwing in a seventh rounder. But yes, the Pats did officially offer Welker an offer sheet and all signs pointed to the Dolphins not matching it, but the Pats didn't want to risk it and threw in a bone to get the transaction done quickly.

They came to the agreement on the 2 and 7 before the offer was officially signed.
Patriots snag Welker from Dolphins via trade - NFL - ESPN

 

[livinginthe past]

Also I don't think it is a coincidence that the Poison pill contracts stopped after the Burleson-Hutchinson fiasco. I guess from the NFLPA it could be viewed as collusion but I have to think those days have died.

If I remember rightly the league was actually suspicious of teams that didn't use the 'poison pill' option.

Thats where the evidence of collusion is.

How could you accuse team A of 'colluding' with team B when it is essentially trying to get one over on it?

It is, however, possible that owners get together to arrange unspoken pacts where they promise not to 'poison pill' each others players - in the interests of stopping the trade window turning into a circus.

And yes, that could actually be described as collusion.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Ummm... Yes, the Pats did sign Welker to an offer sheet. What they did was sweeten the pot for the Dolphins to not wait the full week to try to match the offer by throwing in a seventh rounder. But yes, the Pats did officially offer Welker an offer sheet and all signs pointed to the Dolphins not matching it, but the Pats didn't want to risk it and threw in a bone to get the transaction done quickly.

Source?

According to this Globe article, they didn't.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

If I remember rightly the league was actually suspicious of teams that didn't use the 'poison pill' option.

Not the league, the NFLPA.

The NFL allegedly told teams to knock it off with the poison pills.

 

[Rob0729]

They came to the agreement on the 2 and 7 before the offer was officially signed.
Patriots snag Welker from Dolphins via trade - NFL - ESPN

So I am wrong about the specifics, the Pats officially gave Welker an offer that would have had a poison pill that was accepted but they never signed and submitted it to the league. It doesn't change the overall point. The Pats made Welker an offer that the Dolphins couldn't or wouldn't match and they worked out a trade to get the deal done. Or do you really think the Dolphins were going to match the offer if the Pats made it official, but that extra seventh round pick made it far too attractive of a trade for the Dolphins to pass up. I mean it is crazy to give up Welker for only a second round pick, but a second and a seventh was a steal and a half for the Dolphins. It wasn't like the Pats threw in a third rounder to get it done.

 

[DW Toys]

I would strongly consider trading a 2nd for Pierre Thomas.

Thomas + Maroney = win.

LoMo "Canton here we come" Maroney should be first. Maybe we can trade Sanders for him?
DW Toys

 

[Rob0729]

Source?

According to this Globe article, they didn't.

Kinda of semantics. From the article:

From Welker's perspective, the interest from the Patriots was flattering. While some teams' views of him reflected the label with which he entered the league - a rookie free agent - he felt different on his visit to New England.

By that point, the only question was how to finalize the process. The Patriots were prepared to sign Welker to an offer sheet that included a "poison pill" that would make it difficult for the Dolphins to match. Yet in hopes of avoiding the bad blood that sometimes can accompany offer sheets - the Seahawks and Vikings recently engaged in a nasty back and forth with offensive lineman Steve Hutchinson and receiver Nate Burleson exchanging teams via offer sheets - the Patriots instead called the Dolphins and proposed a trade.

So in other words, if the Dolphins didn't accept the trade, the Pats would have submitted the offer sheet to the league with a poinson pill and gotten Welker for a second round pick. They saved the hassel of scrutiny from the league by tossing in a seventh round pick to avoid going through the process.

Again, the Pats would have used a poison pill if they had to. They just avoided it by making the trade. The Dolphins accepted the trade because they knew that a poison pill was coming and they were going to lose Welker anyway.

Bringing this back to Thomas. The only difference is that if the Pats want Thomas and plan to use a poison pill that the Saints might not match, the Saints might not be willing to trade and force the Pats to go through the motions of making an offer with a poison pill before they get Thomas for a second.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that poison pills are frowned upon and have all but disappeared.

HOWEVER, I think that have a player be guaranteed that he is the highest paid player at his position on this team for each of the years of the contract might be acceptable. In essence, a player would receive a bonus in a given year to bring him up to salary of the highest paid player at his position.

As was pointed out, this would help with Thomas. And for the league and union this contract makes sense. It is indeed giving real compensation and protection to a player, making him the #1 at his position.

Not the league, the NFLPA.

The NFL allegedly told teams to knock it off with the poison pills.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I agree that poison pills are frowned upon and have all but disappeared.

HOWEVER, I think that have a player be guaranteed that he is the highest paid player at his position on this team for each of the years of the contract might be acceptable. In essence, a player would receive a bonus in a given year to bring him up to salary of the highest paid player at his position.

As was pointed out, this would help with Thomas. And for the league and union this contract makes sense. It is indeed giving real compensation and protection to a player, making him the #1 at his position.

I believe poison pills are a good deterrent that keeps teams from under-tendering players.......a good example is atogwe who, after being franchised for a year, might be getting the lowest level tender (no comp)....if I were the pats, I would not hesitate to inquire with the agent.......get a guy for nothing......teach the original team for underestimating the situation

 

[VOODOOZF]

Richard Marshall
Kirk Morrison
Leon Washington
Tony Scheffler
Pierre Thomas
Matt Roth (ok, he was in the Dolphins' dog house, but played strong for the Browns when cut)
LenDale White

I think may have missed several. I also think the Pats may pull the trigger and trade their 2nd round pick (they can only trade their second round pick) to get a RFA.

I don't think any of these guys with the possible exception of Richard Marshall (and that is kind of a stretch) are worth a second round pick.

Who in their right mind would give up a second round pick for Lendale White?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I believe poison pills are a good deterrent that keeps teams from under-tendering players.......a good example is atogwe who, after being franchised for a year, might be getting the lowest level tender (no comp)....if I were the pats, I would not hesitate to inquire with the agent.......get a guy for nothing......teach the original team for underestimating the situation

That would make absolutely no sense, since the RFA tenders mandate a 10% increase in salary from the previous year. Also, the lowest tender requires the original round pick (in Atogwe's case, a 3).

 

[Rob0729]

I don't think any of these guys with the possible exception of Richard Marshall (and that is kind of a stretch) are worth a second round pick.

Who in their right mind would give up a second round pick for Lendale White?

Actually, Kirk Morrison might be a steal with a second round tender. The guy was tied for sixth in the league in tackles this year, he was fifth in the league last year, and 12th the year before. If he can play in the 3-4, he might be the best second round tender guy out there. Him playing inside next to Mayo could be a powerful duo.

 

[Sleeping King]

Kinda of semantics. From the article:



So in other words, if the Dolphins didn't accept the trade, the Pats would have submitted the offer sheet to the league with a poinson pill and gotten Welker for a second round pick. They saved the hassel of scrutiny from the league by tossing in a seventh round pick to avoid going through the process.

Again, the Pats would have used a poison pill if they had to. They just avoided it by making the trade. The Dolphins accepted the trade because they knew that a poison pill was coming and they were going to lose Welker anyway.

Bringing this back to Thomas. The only difference is that if the Pats want Thomas and plan to use a poison pill that the Saints might not match, the Saints might not be willing to trade and force the Pats to go through the motions of making an offer with a poison pill before they get Thomas for a second.

There is a big difference between the two situations. By all accounts the Dolphins were "happy" to lose Welker for a 2nd. They perceived that as good value which at the time a lot of Patriots posters here were saying was way too much to give.

I don't suspect the Saints have any interest in losing Thomas.

 

[SteveKiner]

Actually, Kirk Morrison might be a steal with a second round tender. The guy was tied for sixth in the league in tackles this year, he was fifth in the league last year, and 12th the year before. If he can play in the 3-4, he might be the best second round tender guy out there. Him playing inside next to Mayo could be a powerful duo.

I watched every game the Raiders played this year(don't ask!) and I just don't see it. IMO Morrison not very good. I think the Raiders are hoping someone signs him and they get a third. I understand that Morrison looks good when you look at the stats but I don't remember him making any tackles for loss or even making any tackles at or near the LOS. The weakest part of his game is shedding blockers so I don't see him fitting at ILB in the Pats 3-4. The Raiders run defense, especially up the middle, was absolutely putrid. I never watched him until this past year so maybe I'm missing something but IMO he was the worst starting LB on the Raiders and they probably had the worst LB's in the league. I think Ricky Brown was doing better than Morrison until Brown got hurt. I hope I'm wrong about him if the Pats sign him, but IMO the Pats had a Kirk Morrison on the team last year. They called him Paris Lenon. Hopefully they pass, even at a third.