Letting Leaders Go: Lessons Learned?

[Jackson 2]

I want to keep everyone, sign more free agent talent on the defensive side, trade some draft picks for big-name pass rushers, draft some blue-chip prospects, sign free agent Jimmy G. to a huge, long-term contract he can't refuse and finally give Brady the money he deserves. The cap is crap...

 

[anditsgood]

You know, after thinking about it for a couple of days I think BB simply didn't like what he saw from Butler all week playing wise.

as much as the move was a headscratcher to me albeit after the fact, i am not going to start playing Monday morning armchair qb with the coach that has created this dynasty , won 5 out 8 superbowls in 16 years He could have taken a huge turd on the field and i would not question him,

He must have weighed the match-up, size/speech and perhaps had more trust in the whole unit vs faith in 1 player

In Bill we trust, indeed

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Unlike the Seahawks and Falcons championship wins, yesterday represented a Super Bowl where we faced down two of our own -- Blount and Long -- who were integral pieces of the prior Super Bowl run(s). These weren't fringe players, but key veteran pieces who still had something left in the tank.

My question is whether Belichick learns anything as a GM from this loss. We can't continue to hemorrhage veteran leadership because it is what puts teams over the top. Guys like Amendola, for example, are key members of the locker room and get it done in the playoffs. We need to keep our locker room leaders.

Dealing Branch, and letting Vinatieri go also completely blew up in our faces in '06.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

Dealing Branch, and letting Vinatieri go also completely blew up in our faces in '06.

Yup. It took 8 years to recover from their absence despite all the flash and razzle dazzle of the '07 team.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

as much as the move was a headscratcher to me albeit after the fact, i am not going to start playing Monday morning armchair qb with the coach that has created this dynasty , won 5 out 8 superbowls in 16 years He could have taken a huge turd on the field and i would not question him,

He must have weighed the match-up, size/speech and perhaps had more trust in the whole unit vs faith in 1 player

In Bill we trust, indeed

I'd say yes, trust Bill 99% of the time. But this felt like an internal power struggle emerging publicly. Bill was promised he would buy the groceries and then Kraft pushed Jimmy out the door, undermining the Hoodie (TM) in the process. Butler being a Super Bowl hero who might have done a few dumb things gave Belichick the opportunity to slam the gauntlet back down. Literally everyone disagreed with the choice to bench Butler, but this was about sending a message to the owner, Brady, and anyone else paying attention that this was Belichick's team.

And what happens two days later after this act of pissing in the pool just because he could? Kraft and Brady convince Josh to return and likely take over for Belichick in the near future.

If this pissing match keeps up, Belichick might be out of here in the coming weeks.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

He could have taken a huge turd on the field

...preferably on an image of the commissioner...

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I'd say yes, trust Bill 99% of the time. But this felt like an internal power struggle emerging publicly. Bill was promised he would buy the groceries and then Kraft pushed Jimmy out the door, undermining the Hoodie (TM) in the process. Butler being a Super Bowl hero who might have done a few dumb things gave Belichick the opportunity to slam the gauntlet back down. Literally everyone disagreed with the choice to bench Butler, but this was about sending a message to the owner, Brady, and anyone else paying attention that this was Belichick's team.

And what happens two days later after this act of pissing in the pool just because he could? Kraft and Brady convince Josh to return and likely take over for Belichick in the near future.

If this pissing match keeps up, Belichick might be out of here in the coming weeks.

LOL stop paying attention to BSPN!!!

 

[Simpelton]

Lesson learned: Don't bench your starting CB for the Super Bowl for no reason.

Lesson not learned: Don't assume there was no reason simply because we weren't told the reason.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Could you pick two guys who WEREN'T perennial losers before they got to New England to try and illustrate your point? Might work a bit better...

 

[PatsFanInVa]

The equation makes no sense without a reason

Agree. It does not follow, unfortunately, that we know or will know what that reason is.

The offense was great and there isn't any trouble on that side of the ball unless we get a major retirement or Amendola leaves. We can't just assume Edelman will be himself again, making Amendola a priority in my mind.

The defense, as we witnessed in the Super Bowl, is a fiasco when it faces a quarterback with half a brain. We got to the Super Bowl beating terrible quarterbacks. Can you imagine if we played a Rodgers, Brees, or even Matt Stafford surrounded by a solid roster we make it out of there with the win? We've just gotten too weak on defense and Hightower returning is a guarantee of success. Although Jones was a dummy and would vanish, he was making plays that season and had a huge upside. And we didn't get much out of dealing him. Those are the types of situations, much like with Jimmy G., where we didn't get the full value for players and keeping them would likely have netted us more success.

Belichick has done a great job historically bringing in new talent. And this year was no different. But the problems this Super Bowl expose more than jut an issue of a player being kept on the sideline.

We weren't good enough. I agree. I particularly agree with your final line. People want a scapegoat for this loss. The more important project of learning from it is underway where it matters... lol in BB's troubled sleep, until he gets his butt to the film room.

I mean if you wanna talk about leadership, I would say that the team’s biggest offensive leaders are Brady and Edelman, the defensive leaders are McCourty and Hightower, and they spent almost the entire season without half of those four... I don’t understand how having Blount and Chris Long would have made up for missing Edelman and Hightower. “Attitude” was not the difference between a win and a loss on Sunday. Talent on one side of the ball was the difference.

Agree that leadership and attitude were not issues.

I'll add a small, finesse-y point:

This team - with many returnees - showed on the biggest stage last year, and to a lesser extent the year before, that you can't count us out. We will fight every. damn. play. By the end of the Atlanta game the Pats were legendary for it.

Don't get me wrong, we did that in LII too. We knew we could do it. No doubt in our minds.

Is there a subtle difference between the determination to do it, and the knowledge that you can do it when needed? A creeping first-half complacency based on so many previous late-game heroics?

Would love to have watched that script unfold just one more time Sunday... but you wonder if at some point you slip over into counting on it.

I'm not a mind-reader anymore than any of us know the "super double top secret REAL reason that MB was benched."

It does cross my mind though, in retrospect.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Lesson not learned: Don't assume there was no reason simply because we weren't told the reason.

We were told a reason

We just have no data and can't get any. LOL it's enough to drive one mental.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Do we let leaders go or do some of them leave on their own volition?

 

[Jackson 2]

Unlike the Seahawks and Falcons championship wins, yesterday represented a Super Bowl where we faced down two of our own -- Blount and Long -- who were integral pieces of the prior Super Bowl run(s). These weren't fringe players, but key veteran pieces who still had something left in the tank.

My question is whether Belichick learns anything as a GM from this loss. We can't continue to hemorrhage veteran leadership because it is what puts teams over the top. Guys like Amendola, for example, are key members of the locker room and get it done in the playoffs. We need to keep our locker room leaders. We also need to consider keeping at least some of our talented young players like Jones and Collins so we can keep up with quick teams like the Eagles.

This season was a mess if you subtract Brady's phenomenal play. His leadership and skill set kept that defense off the field and fresh. Without Brady, that defense turns this team into a 5-11 or 6-10 clunker if we had an average NFL quarterback. Picture Joe Flacco leading this Patriots roster sans Edelman and Hightower. We need to find some new guys on defense and look for -- and keep -- veterans like Blount and James Harrison who help to anchor the locker room.

Because the killer of this dynasty isn't going to be time or external forces like Roger Goodell. It is going to be from within because Belichick didn't value key Patriots leaders. With Brady's career entering its final year or two, isn't it time to pay those veteran leaders rather than rolling the dice with unproven guys? And, maybe while we're at it, we can get some more young talent on the defense?

LOL, care to share some evidence that James Harrison helped "anchor the locker room?"

 

[ATippett56]

Unlike the Seahawks and Falcons championship wins, yesterday represented a Super Bowl where we faced down two of our own -- Blount and Long -- who were integral pieces of the prior Super Bowl run(s). These weren't fringe players, but key veteran pieces who still had something left in the tank.

My question is whether Belichick learns anything as a GM from this loss. We can't continue to hemorrhage veteran leadership because it is what puts teams over the top. Guys like Amendola, for example, are key members of the locker room and get it done in the playoffs. We need to keep our locker room leaders. We also need to consider keeping at least some of our talented young players like Jones and Collins so we can keep up with quick teams like the Eagles.

This season was a mess if you subtract Brady's phenomenal play. His leadership and skill set kept that defense off the field and fresh. Without Brady, that defense turns this team into a 5-11 or 6-10 clunker if we had an average NFL quarterback. Picture Joe Flacco leading this Patriots roster sans Edelman and Hightower. We need to find some new guys on defense and look for -- and keep -- veterans like Blount and James Harrison who help to anchor the locker room.

Because the killer of this dynasty isn't going to be time or external forces like Roger Goodell. It is going to be from within because Belichick didn't value key Patriots leaders. With Brady's career entering its final year or two, isn't it time to pay those veteran leaders rather than rolling the dice with unproven guys? And, maybe while we're at it, we can get some more young talent on the defense?

Seriously?

Advanced Stats Report: Tom Brady’s mastery marred by defensive implosion

Oh those coverage statistics.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

Do we let leaders go or do some of them leave on their own volition?

Some leave on their own volition. Others, arguably more, are shown the door because we assume they are entering decrepitude. Sometimes that backfires as with Blount, other times it works out as with Revis. My original point was that we could do a better job keeping the leaders who don't cost much.

 

[DarrylS]

The defense, as we witnessed in the Super Bowl, is a fiasco when it faces a quarterback with half a brain. We got to the Super Bowl beating terrible quarterbacks. Can you imagine if we played a Rodgers, Brees, or even Matt Stafford surrounded by a solid roster we make it out of there with the win? We've just gotten too weak on defense and Hightower returning is a guarantee of success. Although Jones was a dummy and would vanish, he was making plays that season and had a huge upside. And we didn't get much out of dealing him. Those are the types of situations, much like with Jimmy G., where we didn't get the full value for players and keeping them would likely have netted us more success..

The quarterback with "half a brain" played as well as any quarterback that I have seen recently in the NFL, Foles played out of his mind.. the defense is suspect, but some of the passes by Foles were thrown into very tight coverage.. do not discount what Foles did in that game.

What is full value for Jimmy G?? The market usually determines the value... there were unsubstantiated rumors out of Cleveland by local scribes about his value, but nothing from their front office.

Jones had worn out his welcome in NE, and what he has done in Az. is not done in NE.. BB has in this incarnation never been all that enamored with sack numbers, he prefers edge players doing their job and accepting what is expected of them.

BTW "full value" does not equate with success... there is quite a bit that goes on in the middle of that process.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Leadership wasn’t the issue. Though NE played with a lot of heart on Sunday, Philly wanted it more (if we are talking only intangibles).

 

[luuked]

I was honestly confused we didn't jailbreak blitz and not worry about roughing the passer calls with late hits. We weren't stopping an untouched Foles, so why not get after him with different overloaded blitzes and risk the penalties for late hits or offsides from trying to time the blitzes just right?

We were blitzing over 45% of the time in the game:



The thing that the angry mob here somehow keeps ignoring is that we kept putting the Eagles into multiple third and longs so the defense was doing positive things at times. But their design and execution on most third downs was flawless. The few times they gave us a chance to stop them our defenders ****ed up the execution in a major way.

It didnt matter if you brought 5 or not. The called plays accounted for blitzes and those dump offs to hot reads turned out to be even more damaging in terms of yardage given up because the LB level was too slow.

 

[Nikolai]

We were blitzing over 45% of the time in the game:



The thing that the angry mob here somehow keeps ignoring is that we kept putting the Eagles into multiple third and longs so the defense was doing positive things at times. But their design and execution on most third downs was flawless. The few times they gave us a chance to stop them our defenders ****ed up the execution in a major way.

It didnt matter if you brought 5 or not. The called plays accounted for blitzes and those dump offs to hot reads turned out to be even more damaging in terms of yardage given up because the LB level was too slow.

Actually, that was one of my biggest peeves with the defensive playcalling. It was obvious that Foles was spotting the blitz and throwing outlet passes, and we still kept blitzing and not getting there. It is what it is.

 

[luuked]

Actually, that was one of my biggest peeves with the defensive playcalling. It was obvious that Foles was spotting the blitz and throwing outlet passes, and we still kept blitzing and not getting there. It is what it is.

The problem really was that the alternative was not more successful either because Foles had all day to find receptions due to sublime route designs on most third downs. With blitzing at least you have maybe a shot at a random strip sack if someone wins one of their 1v1s like the Eagles did when they for once got to Brady.

The moment Foles continued to deliver pinpoint passes even deep to receivers that were actually tightly covered was when the entire game became very difficult to coach on defense.