Lelie wants to be traded

[dryheat44]

Did you forget the guy actually held onto the ball when he was knocked out during a Buffalo Bill game - had he not held on we very well go on and lose that game.

No he didn't. He fumbled it. The Bills recovered. Fortunately, the ball was touching his body while his head was touching the sideline, so it was ruled New England retained possession.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Good points all Joe.

I think if you put Bethel on Denver last year he would have caught 35 balls by default.

If you follow FootballOutsiders.com, they do quite a bit of statistical analysis on players correcting for differences in score, field position, quality of defense, and other variables.

My read on Lelie (has he really played every game? That doesn't sound right at all....I thought he had a chronic knee condition) is purely from watching him, probably 5-6 games a year (married a Broncos fan). So I went over to check the stats.

I'm desparately hoping we can address our WR with a trade - preferably before the draft so we can get that monkey off our back.

Everyone seems to think the WR issue will take care of itself one way or another but I'd love to give Brady some real ammunition given his talent.

As such I'm VERY open to a trade for a proven WR who averages at least 40 receptions for about 20yds per catch (especially one who has done so with an average QB in the past)

So Lelie, Stallworth and anyone else like that would be high on my priority list... and again, I say if we're going to make a trade do it before the draft so we know how high up we need to target a WR in the draft.

 

[Flying Fungi]

Why take a cheap shot at Patten - he made a hell of a lot of crucial catches, in traffic and took a lot of hard hits. the only reason he left was because Washington (surprise) overpaid for him. Did you forget some key grabs on the end zone during playoffs and superbowl? Did you forget the guy actually held onto the ball when he was knocked out during a Buffalo Bill game - had he not held on we very well go on and lose that game.

Lelie basically sux - what that has to do with David Patten is beyond me.

tongue-in-cheek

Patten made some awesome catches and served his purpose...his last year with us I will contend that he had alligator arms...WA overpaid for him, but I'm not convinced that we offered him much if anything...this thread is about Lelie, and whether it is alligator arms, fumbilitis, dropsies, vertigo, UFOs or whatever, Lelie simply isn't a quality option for a #2 at reasonable money for NE. You remember the 'no way david patten makes this team' discussion, right? I'm making light of that as well...just in case anyone missed that...

God Bless David Patten, slayer of giants, etc etc etc

 

[AzPatsFan]

Seems like he could be had on the cheap - and at 40-50 catches would be a good addition here, at least for a season.

But Lelie might not look at the Patriots as the ideal place for him. He says he wants to have a chance to be the #1 WR. I'm sure he and his agent made note of Givens' comments upon departure that he felt he was being held back in the Patriots system (which spreads the ball around).

So in the short term, Lelie wouldn't feel that his skills would be showcased any more than Givens were - keeping at that 40-50 catch level if we're lucky.

And if he's hoping for a longer term extension with performance incentives that reward him for #1 production, again, he's going to question whether the Patriots system would empower him to achieve those incentives.

The only thing we have in our "favor" is the fact that we have a hole to fill with our #2 WR and that Branch is in the last year of his contract... and hopefully that's a temporary issue as well.

Lelie was the long ball WR a la` Bethel Johnson, He is not a Givens, "make the catch and move the chains" possesion WR replacement, more like a BJ competitor.

 

[fgssand]

tongue-in-cheek

Patten made some awesome catches and served his purpose...his last year with us I will contend that he had alligator arms...WA overpaid for him, but I'm not convinced that we offered him much if anything...this thread is about Lelie, and whether it is alligator arms, fumbilitis, dropsies, vertigo, UFOs or whatever, Lelie simply isn't a quality option for a #2 at reasonable money for NE. You remember the 'no way david patten makes this team' discussion, right? I'm making light of that as well...just in case anyone missed that...

God Bless David Patten, slayer of giants, etc etc etc

All good - all cool

I agree - DP was not the same slayer of giants during his last year with us.....I would not mind seeing him back for another year though.

I also agree - ANYBODY but Ashel Lelie

 

[Digger44]

Yeah...I'm all set with Lelie...as much as I like Rod Smith, if Lelie is half of what he was expected to be he would have sent Smith to retirement by now...

Ditto. This guy had a golden road paved to the #1 WR slot in Denver. Rod Smith is a great reciever, but there is no way that he should be able to hold Lelie off. Lelie couldn't go out and take the spot from Smith. What makes him think he has #1 capability? He wants to compete for #1? What the heck has he been doing since the 2002 draft? Denver is weak @ WR, do not tell me you need another team to compete. That is ridiculous. I wouldn't touch him unless it were a 6th or 7th round pick.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I must be missing the boat on Bethel - when was the last time he had 50 catches in a season? (or 40... or 30.... or 20)

I'm not opposed to "fragile" guys who have played in 16 games every season of their career and never caught less than 35 passes. I wish we had more "fragile" guys like that.

I'd also love to have a guy who has "terrible hands, runs terrible routes and can't get opened" catching 50+ passes averaging 20 yards each like he did in 2004.

That'd be embarrassing for sure but I could handle it.

The Donks didn't have three good TEs and 5 WRs and a couple of pass catching RBs to share the ball either... its not surprising that a Lelie got more chances, there was no one else beside Smith...

 

[Remix 6]

hes very fast and is a deep threat. he averaged 19 ypc 2 seasons ago and had a great year. sure id like to have him but not for a big price

 

[DB15]

another note

when I guy who is wanting to be traded sites wanting to be a number 1 reciver usually means he is looking for a pay day as well

 

[Remix 6]

i meant at a cheap price to denver..3rd round pick or something. not a 2nd or 1st.

 

[flutie2phelan]

Why take a cheap shot at Patten - he made a hell of a lot of crucial catches, in traffic and took a lot of hard hits. the only reason he left was because Washington (surprise) overpaid for him. Did you forget some key grabs on the end zone during playoffs and superbowl? Did you forget the guy actually held onto the ball when he was knocked out during a Buffalo Bill game - had he not held on we very well go on and lose that game.

Lelie basically sux - what that has to do with David Patten is beyond me.

I think FlyFun's indictment of Patten for gator arms is WAY off base ... but this part:

but there was no way he would make the team

so the question is moot

... refers impishly back to our one-time record-holding thread
(before the Carolina cheerleaders journeyed to Tampa).

 

[Digger44]

i meant at a cheap price to denver..3rd round pick or something. not a 2nd or 1st.

no way a 3rd. eric moulds got a 5th. are you crazy?

 

[spacecrime]

You can't conclude from his percentage caught that he has bad hands, alligator arms, or whatever. The quarterback who is throwing to him has a big effect on completion percentage because of his accuracy and placement of the ball.

Umm, the list had Lelie 48% and Rod Smith 67%.

But in general, I think that if Bethel had the ball thrown to him as often as Lelie did (and by the same QB), he would have put up better numbers than Lelie.

 

[Flying Fungi]

Umm, the list had Lelie 48% and Rod Smith 67%.

But in general, I think that if Bethel had the ball thrown to him as often as Lelie did (and by the same QB), he would have put up better numbers than Lelie.

Maybe Plummer was throwing righty to Smith and lefty to Lelie?

 

[JoeSixPat]

Lelie was the long ball WR a la` Bethel Johnson, He is not a Givens, "make the catch and move the chains" possesion WR replacement, more like a BJ competitor.

Clearly I'm just missing something when everyone writes off Lelie with 40+ catches comparing him to Bethel with 4 catches as equal players.

Bethel hasn't done in his CAREER what Lelie has done in one season and no one seems to think he'd be an upgrade?

 

[Digger44]

Clearly I'm just missing something when everyone writes off Lelie with 40+ catches comparing him to Bethel with 4 catches as equal players.

Bethel hasn't done in his CAREER what Lelie has done in one season and no one seems to think he'd be an upgrade?

There is no doubt that he would be an upgrade over Bethel, but that is at the #4 or #5 slot. Lelie seems to want the #1 spot. He isn't a #1 WR. #3? Yes. #2? Maybe.

 

[Remix 6]

what do you mean a #2 maybe? look at his stats. over 1000 a year ago and over 700 last year. thats good #2 numbers.

 

[PromisedLand]

Umm, the list had Lelie 48% and Rod Smith 67%.

But in general, I think that if Bethel had the ball thrown to him as often as Lelie did (and by the same QB), he would have put up better numbers than Lelie.

OK then. That is a valid stat because you have a control (Smith). My point was simply that you couldn't draw the conclusion that was drawn about Lelie from that stat alone.

 

[JoeSixPat]

There is no doubt that he would be an upgrade over Bethel, but that is at the #4 or #5 slot. Lelie seems to want the #1 spot. He isn't a #1 WR. #3? Yes. #2? Maybe.

As I said I question whether he'd come here - but no one seems to want this guy because he catches a measely 40 - 50 passes?

With the exception of Branch, his production last year puts him ahead of every other WR on the roster.

Brown - 39
Caldwell - 28 (career high)
Johnson - 4
Smtih - 3
Childress - 3
Stone - 3

 

[dhamz]

If Lelie really was a quality WR, why does replacing him seem to be one of the Broncos major offseason priorities? They aren't looking for a WR to be their #3 (which they don't use anyway) and then eventually replace Rod Smith. They are by all accounts looking for a guy to move in opposite Smith in Lelie's spot. That should be an enormous concern to anyone who thinks he is an answer to the Pats WR opening.

The reason is he just can't get open and when he does he has trouble catching the ball. He's often invisible. Counting the postseason he was held with 2 or less catches 10 times in 18 games.