Late free agent glut?

[RayClay]

With the new CBA, it didn't seem many players were cut for cap reasons.

No June cuts at all that I remember. Not a lot of free agent signings at all, seems to me.

Since teams aren't forced to cut to get under the cap this year, there must be more decent vets still competing for jobs come training camp.

Since the Pats are bargain hunters, (Phifer and Antowain acquired real cheap in June for example), are they waiting for certain players when the numbers game puts good vets on the market?

I'm thinking real late cuts or economical draft pick trades for WR or LB.

Thoughts?

Edit: I wish I could change the title. I'm talking about decent talent availabe via cuts. My theory anyway.

 

[RayClay]

No thoughts on my amazingly well thought out theory , eh?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If they do pick up anyone that route it will be a bad sign - based on need (injury and none of the depth guys being sufficient to cover or bad camp). It's hard to work guys in midway or more through the pre season which is when those last cuts would be made. A guy like Patten sure, because he knows the system and the QB intimately. LB? Guys we picked up in March last season couldn't grasp this system in 10 months. Most of the guys cut will be end of the roster guys not eligible for a PS or vets who got beat out by end of the roster guys. So I'm not sure there will be many "good vets" to be had anyway.

 

[RayClay]

If they do pick up anyone that route it will be a bad sign - based on need (injury and none of the depth guys being sufficient to cover or bad camp). It's hard to work guys in midway or more through the pre season which is when those last cuts would be made. A guy like Patten sure, because he knows the system and the QB intimately. LB? Guys we picked up in March last season couldn't grasp this system in 10 months. Most of the guys cut will be end of the roster guys not eligible for a PS or vets who got beat out by end of the roster guys. So I'm not sure there will be many "good vets" to be had anyway.

You make good points. I do see spots for a vet WR or LB, though.

Are you saying a vet who's played in many systems wouldn't be able to adjust as well as the street freee agents we have at these positions?

It's not the ideal, but I think the Pats work in a vet that becomes available rather than overspend on a free agent in a horrible year for free agent value so far.

Remember a few years back when we were going to go with what we had at nose tackle emphazing "technique"? We certainly changed that tune late in camp when Ted Washington became available.

Those type of trades don't have to wait til the end of camp if it's obvious a toungster can play. Better a low pick, than no pick.

 

[CrazyDave]

I would say it's an 'it is what it is" thing. If they like a player, the'll grab him.
But I'd guess they are'nt counting on it. Do you think there will be a lot out there?

 

[RayClay]

I would say it's an 'it is what it is" thing. If they like a player, the'll grab him.
But I'd guess they are'nt counting on it. Do you think there will be a lot out there?

That's my thought.

There wasn't a lot of quality early and there were no June cuts that I'm aware of.

Means to me that teams are able to delay judgement on some players because there is no salary cap pressure.

Teams still need to cut down to a certain number and they still need room for promising young players.

I think there will be quality players cut. I shouldn't have said free agents, that was a misnomer.

 

[JoeSixPat]

While the Pats would never say "no" to a bargain signing, taking a chance on a cut from another team, such signings are just that - a chance.

This season, thanks to the new CBA, there was much more early action in free agency, and by design or accident, the Patriots were not big players.

Those free agents who remain unsigned, I believe are unsigned for a reason. Players who are cut will be cut for a reason. There is not, and will not be, a "glut"

There might be some players that provide depth, and even a gem in the rough, but its nothing you really want to count on as you design a team, unless you're in salary cap hell and have no choice (like the Pats were in 2000)

 

[RayClay]

While the Pats would never say "no" to a bargain signing, taking a chance on a cut from another team, such signings are just that - a chance.

This season, thanks to the new CBA, there was much more early action in free agency, and by design or accident, the Patriots were not big players.

Those free agents who remain unsigned, I believe are unsigned for a reason. Players who are cut will be cut for a reason. There is not, and will not be, a "glut"

There might be some players that provide depth, and even a gem in the rough, but its nothing you really want to count on as you design a team.

I don't have stats, but I thought it was a very weak free agent period. We had the biggest FA losses because we don't wait til we're under pressure to make cuts.

Who were the big FA signings? Randall El?

Remember there used to be the big June cut down and that was nil.

I guess I'm talking cuts more than FA, but I think teams have been allowed to hold on to players longer because their is no salary cap consequence.

 

[RayClay]

Also, I think they're leaving room for additions, if available.

At WR we had both starters last year, yet we had more veteran competition in camp than we do this year.

Our competition at 5th wr is mostly practice squad material. There's no way an affordable vet wouldn't make the cut at WR. Ditto LB.

I'm not saying they're desperate, just saying if my theory is correct, they've left themselves roster space and cap space.

 

[spacecrime]

I do see spots for a vet WR or LB, though.

Are you saying a vet who's played in many systems wouldn't be able to adjust as well as the street freee agents we have at these positions?

LB: Chad Brown, Monty Beisel
WR: A long list of quality WR vets who couldn't adjust, including Donald Hayes, Andre Davis, David Terrell, those two Eagles starters we picked up in 2001 who couldn't outplay UDFA Coleman and Arena League Patton

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Kevin Johnson

I have heard rumors that the Pats may be interested in KJ.

I have liked his work since he was in Cleveland and would love to see the Pats pick him up. He is a little small, but he's fast and runs great routes. A nice #2.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I don't have stats, but I thought it was a very weak free agent period. We had the biggest FA losses because we don't wait til we're under pressure to make cuts.

Who were the big FA signings? Randall El?

Remember there used to be the big June cut down and that was nil.

I guess I'm talking cuts more than FA, but I think teams have been allowed to hold on to players longer because their is no salary cap consequence.

This was a year unlike any other because of the new CBA money - pre-draft there were only 100 or so free agents left available, and the vast majority of them remain unsigned to this day.

There was probably twice as much free agency activity this year compared to others, making it that much more difficult for the Pats to find bargain basement deals later in free agency... the numbers just aren't there.

(here's an article from early in free angecy to corroborate the many reasons: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2006-03-16-free-agent-market_x.htm)

Add to that the fact that the new CBA money ensured that most teams were not tight up against the cap, and its a no brainer why there were so few June 1st cuts - and add to that the fact that the new CBA encourages June 1st trades rather than cuts, and you can see that the nature of the NFL offseason is changing

So its not a debate - there is no glut of free agents available. The few that remain are players that GMs don't feel are worth signing until injuries or camp cuts create a need, and the players cut early in camp are usually cut for a reason. I'm sure some of the final cuts will be worthy of looking at, as they always are, but those players won't have the benefit of learning our system and might not be up to speed until mid-way through the season.

It may be worth keeping an eye on teams like Tampa Bay that have a glut of WRs (or other teams with a glut of position players) to see what cuts they will have to make, possibly offering a trade for conditional draft picks, but aside from that, one can't look at this offseason as comparable to past Patriots off seasons.

It's just apples to oranges.

 

[TeamPats]

I think an interesting fact that needs to be pointed out is that the period to sign UFA agents aended this past weekend. Therefore if the Pats were worried about hindering their compensatory picks, they might have delayed in signing someone. This may seem trite, but signing a few so-so UFA's the past weeks could have taken away a 4th-6th round pick. This is obviousky just a theory, but I would not be surpised if the Pats are now more willing to sign some extra players.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

My take on player possibilities is a little different.
Most teams have 80 plus players signed for 53 jobs. After the first week of camp most teams will know who has the best chance of making the team and who the surprise guys are that they want to see more of. The rest are basically camp bodies.
At this point BB has the opportunity to make a trade. Teams like Tampa Bay, for example, that are hoarding 10 plus WRs, are ideal partners. After a week of camp, Gruden will know more or less who he'd like to keep and who he doesn't.
But I think all teams want a week of camp to see what they have before they commit to trading players.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Kevin Johnson

I have heard rumors that the Pats may be interested in KJ.

I have liked his work since he was in Cleveland and would love to see the Pats pick him up. He is a little small, but he's fast and runs great routes. A nice #2.

Apparently he isn't ready to compete for a spot since his rehab is progressing slowly. Still has pain the day after a workout. Says he doesn't want to sign with a team and go through all the effort and then be cut because he couldn't earn a spot in camp due to his nagging injury. He is even debating retirement.

 

[arrellbee]

J6P has it pretty well spelled out. Players cut for cap reasons are going to be few and far between.

That leaves the small possibility of a player that another team doesn't value properly or that doesn't fit into their system. Perhaps a Vrabel ? Those, again, are rare. Only time will tell if there is such a player this year.

I think Ochmed has an interesting point. Another slim possibility would be a team who is just deep in a particular position and would be willing to part with a player for a future draft pick. I can see the Pats being willing to give up a draft pick for next year if they felt the player was as good or better than what would be available at that draft position next year. After all, how many years will you continue to be able to keep 9 or 10 draft picks on the roster ?

 

[RayClay]

LB: Chad Brown, Monty Beisel
WR: A long list of quality WR vets who couldn't adjust, including Donald Hayes, Andre Davis, David Terrell, those two Eagles starters we picked up in 2001 who couldn't outplay UDFA Coleman and Arena League Patton

Donald Hayes? Think you're in a time warp there.

 

[flutie2phelan]

.... Another slim possibility would be a team who is just deep in a particular position and would be willing to part with a player for a future draft pick.

Doesn't this describe the Pats' O-line perfectly?
I wouldn't be surprised to see us deal a pretty fair OL who isn't going to make our 53 ... for a conditional second-day pick. (Yates, Gorin, Mruc, Britt, Tucker?)

 

[Ring 6]

LB: Chad Brown, Monty Beisel
WR: A long list of quality WR vets who couldn't adjust, including Donald Hayes, Andre Davis, David Terrell, those two Eagles starters we picked up in 2001 who couldn't outplay UDFA Coleman and Arena League Patton

I dont thinkn Brown couldnt adjust, I think he was old.
I think the jury is out still on Beisel.
I would never call Donald Hayes or David Terrell a quality WR. Torrance Small actually was playing but got injured. Charles Johnson saw pt but had little left, although he was the #3 ahead of Coleman (who was the #4) Andre Davis did what he did here, which is pretty much what he is capable of.

I dont see guys on that list being unable to adjust to the system, I see them being what they are(were).

 

[rookBoston]

Doesn't this describe the Pats' O-line perfectly?
I wouldn't be surprised to see us deal a pretty fair OL who isn't going to make our 53 ... for a conditional second-day pick. (Yates, Gorin, Mruc, Britt, Tucker?)

Of that bunch, only Gorin would attract trade considerations, and a late Day Two pick, at that. But if someone offered a 6th, and O'Callahan and/or Britt looked good, I think BB would make that deal.

As for the original question, will there be a lot of vet FAs later this offseason... I'm not so sure. With the extra cap space, teams can afford to keep players that they would otherwise have cut, not only into TC, but also into the season. We may find that a lot of promising young players, who are cheaper but aren't quite established, may be the victims. We might be able to land a few 2005 Day One picks, who weren't able to turn the corner with the team, and couldn't dislodge a veteran who would otherwise have been a cap casualty.