K.C. Joyner's Overrated/Underrated: 4 Patriots

[Remix 6]

8 most overrated players

Derek Anderson, QB, Cleveland: Too many INTs and poor performances

Dallas Clark, TE, Indianapolis: "second year in a row he posted a mediocre 6.4 yards per attempt"

Donald Driver, WR, Green Bay: average overall numbers and 4 GB recievers had more TDs.

Shaun Rogers, DT, Detroit: "his 4.4 YPA allowed on point-of-attack runs was quite disappointing"

Richard Seymour, DE, New England: "He allowed 4.2 YPA on POA runs and posted a mediocre 10.5 POA success percentage."

Jeremy Shockey, TE, N.Y. Giants: "Shockey's 6.8 YPA this past season was mediocre" plus he only had 1 big game.

Kyle Vanden Bosch, DE, Tennessee: Lots of coverage sacks and was a liability against the run.

Mike Vrabel, LB, New England: "Six of his sacks were of the coverage/scheme/run/garbage type, and he had only a single one-on-one sack in the last seven weeks of the regular season."

8 most underrated players

Bobby Engram, WR, Seattle: All his numbers were better than Drivers.

Anthony Gonzalez, WR, Indianapolis: "Gonzalez's 11.2 yards per attempt last season would be extremely impressive for a veteran wide receiver, but Gonzalez did it in his rookie campaign."

E.J. Henderson, LB, Minnesota: "Henderson's phenomenal 36.5 defeated block percentage shows he deserves a lot of credit for his abilities to stuff the run as well."

Anthony Henry, CB, Dallas: Metrics on par with Newmans.

Cory Redding, DT, Detroit: "Redding's 30 defeated run blocks and 32.3 defeated block percentage were both Pro Bowl-caliber numbers."

Ty Warren and Vince Wilfork, defensive linemen, New England: "[New Englands] 4.4 YPA [allowed] ranked tied for 26th in that department. However, Warren and Wilfork were certainly not part of the problem, their 3.5 and 3.7 YPAs on point-of-attack runs clearly states."

Roddy White, WR, Atlanta: Put up better numbers than Holt and Houshmandzadeh despite revolving door of QBs.

enjoy

agree for most part..Sey gets off hook a little since he came back from injury and hasnt played in a while but he certainly did better as season went on. Vrabel..some of us have admitted it, after Colvin went down, he was invisible.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

Colvin, come on back and take the discount.

We need ya here buddy.

 

[Pats726]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

Vrabel invisible?? Didn't see that one..I agree he wasn't as strong a player later in the season, but FAR from invisible..

 

[primetime]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

Sometimes I swear Joyner just pulls numbers out of his ass.

 

[bradmahn]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

Vrabel invisible?? Didn't see that one..I agree he wasn't as strong a player later in the season, but FAR from invisible..

If ever there was a game that showed how simply looking at sack totals can be misleading, Vrabes against the Steelers would be it.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

If ever there was a game that showed how simply looking at sack totals can be misleading, Vrabes against the Steelers would be it.

:agree:

Amen.

 

[Remix 6]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

Vrabel invisible?? Didn't see that one..I agree he wasn't as strong a player later in the season, but FAR from invisible..

he really didnt do anything in playoffs..invisible compared to what he did beginning of year. lets just say a disappointing second half basically.

 

[JoePats]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

BelichickFan had the stats. I think it was something like 9 sacks in the 11 games with Colvin, and 3 sacks in the 8 games without him.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

Sometimes I swear Joyner just pulls numbers out of his ass.

Check out football outsiders D-Line metrics, pretty much tell the same story I think as the ones he writes pertaining to stopping the run.

 

[captain stone]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

Not much argument from me regarding the list.

If Colvin is here next season, and Gholston is taken at #7, then our defensive needs may be better-served by having Vrabel and AT play side-by-side, and switch positions depending on different situations. If Gholston is not taken with #7, and our ILB cupboard is replenished by Bruschi and/or Seau, and by FAs and/or draft picks, then by all means return the less-explosive Vrabel to OLB. I'm sure that'll make him happy.

$eymour needs to show us next season that he is not a player in permanent decline.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

Didn't Vrabel almost single handily shutdown Ben Roethlisberger by making it impossible for him to roll right which is his trademark? He also had 3 sacks vs. Miami after Colvin went down.

Vrabel wasn't as effective when Colvin went down, but that was in part because Colvin's loss hurt our entire LBing corp since both Bruschi and Thomas changed position and Seau and Bruschi went from rotating to fulltime starters. It made it easier for teams to double team Vrabel.

You can make an argument that Vrabel may be overrated since he was an All Pro this year, but let's not go overboard.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Part of the Pats defensive package is to disguise the double team in the secondary and disguise where the blitz is coming from.

Clearly once Colvin went down, disguising the blitz became a mute point since Thomas struggled picking up the defense this past season.

Thomas needs to go back inside next season and we desperately need a "sudden" OLB that can get a quick first step on the OT and create pressure on the opposing QB on 3rd and long.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

enjoy

agree for most part..Sey gets off hook a little since he came back from injury and hasnt played in a while but he certainly did better as season went on. Vrabel..some of us have admitted it, after Colvin went down, he was invisible.

How can Seymour be overrated if pretty much everyone acknowledges that he wasn't very good this season? The debate is why he wasn't very good, and the pro-Seymour crowd argues that it's because he was injured and wasn't in shape.

 

[PonyExpress]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

Part of the Pats defensive package is to disguise the double team in the secondary and disguise where the blitz is coming from.

Clearly once Colvin went down, disguising the blitz became a mute point since Thomas struggled picking up the defense this past season.

Thomas needs to go back inside next season and we desperately need a "sudden" OLB that can get a quick first step on the OT and create pressure on the opposing QB on 3rd and long.

IMO you undervalue Thomas' game. After Colvin's injury he was by far the most impactful LB on this team. Thomas is not the problem, and by years end I felt better with him at starting OLB than I have at any time with Colvin during his Patriot career. Colvin is a complementary player who provides depth, but has never been an elite talent during his Patriot career, except for the 1st 2 games. I would welcome depth at OLB, and Gholston, Long, Groves would all be great additions.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

IMO you undervalue Thomas' game. After Colvin's injury he was by far the most impactful LB on this team. Thomas is not the problem, and by years end I felt better with him at starting OLB than I have at any time with Colvin during his Patriot career. Colvin is a complementary player who provides depth, but has never been an elite talent during his Patriot career, except for the 1st 2 games. I would welcome depth at OLB, and Gholston, Long, Groves would all be great additions.

IMO you undervalue Colvin's game. A "complimentary" player who "provides depth"? I thought the lack of any pass rush after he went down last season would've put this nonsense to rest. And he's better than most people give him credit for against the run.

 

[PonyExpress]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

IMO you undervalue Colvin's game. A "complimentary" player who "provides depth"? I thought the lack of any pass rush after he went down last season would've put this nonsense to rest. And he's better than most people give him credit for against the run.

Nonsense. When Colvin was healthy it allowed Thopmas to effectively blitz from ILB. When Colvin was gone, no other Patriot could do that. Colvin himself is a mediocre pass rusher, usually a half a step late. I see Colvin for what he is, and was.

 

[BWareofDWare]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

Re: Vrabel slowing down at the end of the season

I didn't see every Patriots game, but didn't Adalius Thomas see a major increase in his sack numbers during this same time period? I would imagine you could attribute at least some of that to teams focusing more of their attention on Vrabel and giving Thomas better match-ups because of it.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

Fair assessment. The first couple years Seymour was in the league, he was pretty dominant. However, over the last couple years, I haven't seen him collapse the pocket like he used to.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Re: KC Joyner's Overrated/Underrated. 4 Patriots

Not much argument from me regarding the list.

If Colvin is here next season, and Gholston is taken at #7, then our defensive needs may be better-served by having Vrabel and AT play side-by-side, and switch positions depending on different situations. If Gholston is not taken with #7, and our ILB cupboard is replenished by Bruschi and/or Seau, and by FAs and/or draft picks, then by all means return the less-explosive Vrabel to OLB. I'm sure that'll make him happy.

$eymour needs to show us next season that he is not a player in permanent decline.

That needs to be a decision made by Pioli and Belichick right now. We can get some serious value for him now, but one year from now if he's still useless we won't get anything for him. Sedrick Ellis could do what Seymour does. Ellis is a DT, but he's a quick DT which means he can play end in our system. He (Seymour) has been hurt the last few seasons, and last year our line got more attention because we were lacking at LB. It's not an issue of his abilities as a play, but his health is certainly a big question mark. I hope Seymour's goose isn't cooked because he's one of my favortie players.