John Hannah and the 70's-80's Pats

[meatface]

I just finished his book Offensive Conduct. I thought it was okay, but I had questions about some of the Patriots stuff he talks about in the book as it was well before my time.

• The 1976 playoff game against Oakland. Hannah claims that officials cost them the game on Oakland's go ahead drive and on the subsequent drive by the Patriots. Can anyone tell me if that holds up or what the game felt like at the time?
• Hannah and Leon Gray held out for better contracts in 1977, missing three games. Was the fan backlash on them as bad as he says?
• Hannah makes it clear throughout that he did not like the Patriots Organization, that he felt that owner Billy Sullivan and his sons hurt his career by not informing him of injuries and screwed over him and other players in terms of salary. How was the fan view of the Sullivan's then and now?

Thanks for any info.

 

[Family]

Yes everyone thought the officials cost us the game. Ridiculous non hold on Francis and roughing the passer that changed the game.

There's always two sides, but most everyone thought the Sullivan's were cheap.

Which leads to the Sullivans. Bill got a pass because he brought football here, but the kids were hated. Also Bill didn't have the money to compete against people like the Hunts.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Billy Sullivan brought the Patriots to New England. He was going to buy a summer house on the Cape and instead took the money and founded the Patriots instead. It pissed off his wife royally.

With that said the organization did have success while he was owner.

How he lost money on a Michael Jackson concert in the 80s is beyond me.

 

[Doctor DDS]

As mentioned above the non call on Francis and the roughing the passer call were both hard to take at a Pats fan. If they do not make the roughing call the Pats probably had a 98% chance of winning the game as it came on a 3rd and 18 and time was running out. Since the Raiders ended up winning it all it is not a huge stretch to think the Pats would have done the same.

As far as the Sullivan's go they certainly had a reputation of being cheap and the quality of the stadium compared to the rest of the league was symbolic of it. I was only 10 YO at the time of the holdout so I cannot remember the fan backlash (news was very different back then) but players rarely win the public opinion battles.

 

[Hyped]

The backlash would have been more face-to-face in those days (e.g. the guy who pumped gas)...and more personal.

 

[RayClay]

Some owners are cheap, The sullivan's simply never had the money to run a professional football team, yet they did. Hannah could have hit the jackpot if rules allowed it back then. Pretty sure they could only afford one and that was part of the problem with two holding out.

The year they had their first super bowl they had the highest payroll in the league. Most of the time they were near broke.

Sullivan lobbied over a weekend to steal the last AFL franchise from Philadelphia, who had already planned a press conference that Monday.

They could never offer the money, facilities and other things a star like Hannah felt he was missing.

They had some good front office people like Holovak and Bucko Kilroy and Fairbanks, of course. It's always risky to depend on family.

 

[Triumph]

The Pats really sucked but the media would quote Hannah. I recall him saying during one season that when you look behind plowing a field you start going crooked.

The Pats were one of the few teams that plowed a field ****eyed looking forward.

It was a train wreck and more than likely the Pats were on one of their infamous losing streaks.The media was quizzing Hannah on how to get out of it.

 

[LaterGator]

As mentioned above the non call on Francis and the roughing the passer call were both hard to take at a Pats fan. If they do not make the roughing call the Pats probably had a 98% chance of winning the game as it came on a 3rd and 18 and time was running out. Since the Raiders ended up winning it all it is not a huge stretch to think the Pats would have done the same.

As far as the Sullivan's go they certainly had a reputation of being cheap and the quality of the stadium compared to the rest of the league was symbolic of it. I was only 10 YO at the time of the holdout so I cannot remember the fan backlash (news was very different back then) but players rarely win the public opinion battles.

Gil Santos famously called the Tuck call in the Snow Bowl as offsetting the Ben Dreith Roughing the Passer call.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Some owners are cheap, The sullivan's simply never had the money to run a professional football team, yet they did. Hannah could have hit the jackpot if rules allowed it back then. Pretty sure they could only afford one and that was part of the problem with two holding out.

The holdout was because Fairbanks had negotiated contracts with Hannah and Grey. But when it came time to execute the contracts, the Sullivans stabbed Fairbanks in the back and reneged. So Hannah and Grey quite understandably held out. And Fairbanks quite understandably decided to go look for a new job (which led to the debacle at the end of the 1978 season).

I was at a dinner & talk with Hannah at the stadium 5 or 6 years ago (a Visa points thing) and he was still very bitter about what the Sullivans did.

 

[RayClay]

The holdout was because Fairbanks had negotiated contracts with Hannah and Grey. But when it came time to execute the contracts, the Sullivans stabbed Fairbanks in the back and reneged. So Hannah and Grey quite understandably held out. And Fairbanks quite understandably decided to go look for a new job (which led to the debacle at the end of the 1978 season).

I was at a dinner & talk with Hannah at the stadium 5 or 6 years ago (a Visa points thing) and he was still very bitter about what the Sullivans did.

That's technically true.

Problem was, Fairbanks didn't have the money to pay the contracts and neither did the team. No matter how much they botched the PR aspect of their decision that team likely couldn't afford to tie up that much dough on two offensive linemen. You'll find Belichick hesitant to sign two big paychecks at a similar position unless he could offset it with cheap talent elsewhere.

Kraft overpaid a lot of the pre-belichick team but it was his own money.

Hannah would have never been happy with the Patriots then since they weren't a first rate organization. He might have got close to the money he wanted if he didn't tie himself to another player at a similar position.

Of course, having an organization that wasn't accountable with it's own negotiations is unforgivable.

 

[Family]

I agree that Hannah should have taken care of himself. Grey was an okay offensive lineman, but nothing close to Hog.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I just finished his book Offensive Conduct. I thought it was okay, but I had questions about some of the Patriots stuff he talks about in the book as it was well before my time.

• The 1976 playoff game against Oakland. Hannah claims that officials cost them the game on Oakland's go ahead drive and on the subsequent drive by the Patriots. Can anyone tell me if that holds up or what the game felt like at the time?
• Hannah and Leon Gray held out for better contracts in 1977, missing three games. Was the fan backlash on them as bad as he says?
• Hannah makes it clear throughout that he did not like the Patriots Organization, that he felt that owner Billy Sullivan and his sons hurt his career by not informing him of injuries and screwed over him and other players in terms of salary. How was the fan view of the Sullivan's then and now?

Thanks for any info.

Oakland Raiders Vault: Raiders vs. Patriots, 1976 Divisional Playoffs

Already annoyed by three holding penalties against Bill Lenkaitis – who had not been flagged for holding the entire regular season – the Patriots began to distrust this crew after they failed to flag George Atkinson for breaking Russ Francis' nose earlier in the game. Steve Zabel popped it back in place on the sidelines. Late in the fourth, their mistrust would turn to outrage.
After exchanging punts, the Patriots got the ball back at the Raiders 48 yard line and began to move into scoring position as the clock reached the five minute mark. Sam Cunningham headed out of bounds on a 2nd down run near the first down marker, but in the ensuing scrum, was spotted short of the first down marker. Future Hall of Famer John Hannah would protest that the sideline official had moved the marker, forcing the Pats into a 3rd and 1. On the subsequent 3rd and 1 play, Steve Grogan attempted to draw the Raiders offsides with a long count, but the Raider defense responded by yelling fake snap counts of their own, and drew three Patriots into a false start. Now with six yards to go, Grogan attempted a pass to Russ Francis, who was assaulted by Phil Villapiano right in front of an official. With his two arms held behind his back, Francis was unable to make the catch, the ball bouncing off between the "8" and the "1" on his jersey, prompting him to protest for a holding flag on Villapiano, to no avail. On 4th and 6 from the 38, the Patriots attempted a 50-yard field goal that sailed low, giving the Raiders the ball back at the 38 with 4:12 to go, down by four points.

Stabler moved the ball quickly into Patriot territory, getting the Raiders offense down to the Patriot 21 yard line in seven plays with about 90 seconds left to play before he was sacked by the Patriots’ Mel Lunsford. Attempting to convert a 3rd and 18 play, Stabler was smacked by Patriots defensive tackle Ray “Sugar Bear” Hamilton while attempting a deep pass that was incomplete. Ben Dreith threw a flag on Hamilton for roughing the passer, giving the Raiders a first down and moving the ball to the New England 13 yard line. Hamilton and the Patriots sideline protested wildly as play continued, causing Hamilton to pick up an unsportsmanlike conduct call that would give the Raiders another 1st down down near the goal line. After a run by Pete Banaszak was stuffed at the goalline with 14 seconds to go, Prentice McCray got hit with another unsportsmanlike penalty, for protesting the home-job spot. Stabler then lined the offense up with the clock winding down and called his own number, rolling left and plunging into the end zone for a 1-yard run with less than ten seconds remaining, putting the Raiders ahead 24-21. The win would be sealed by a Monte Johnson interception of a Steve Grogan pass with seven seconds remaining.

In those days, often the only way for players to be paid fairly was to hold out. Fans are not the smartest or most aware people in the world.

Everybody knew and most really resented the shortcomings of the Sullivans, including local media which unfairly bashes the team to this day, despite it not being their fault. John Hannah is every bit the professional and competitor that Tom Brady is. Just imagine Tom playing his whole career for the Browns.

There's no hiding the blunders of the Sullivans. And, there is no substantive denial in the reality that over thirty-two years, the Patriots on the field were a lovable, often successful if not ultimately championship, good-looking team filled with heroic players and some outstanding coaches, including Dante Scarnecchia who coached John and is still a major contributor on the team. It should be noted that in John's career, after losing seasons in two of his first three, the Patriots had exactly one more losing season in his career. The myth of the Patriots being losers is as much propaganda as calling the Giants a model franchise. The New York Giants are irrefutably the real "laughingstock of football" in the 1970's, with by far the worst record.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

............. The myth of the Patriots being losers is as much propaganda as calling the Giants a model franchise. The New York Giants are irrefutably the real "laughingstock of football" in the 1970's, with by far the worst record.

From 1965-75 the Patriots record was 49-88-5..that's an average of a 4-8 season, no myth there.
You are right about the Giants' having their own dry spell. From 1983-93 the Giants were 49-108, an average of 4-12...

The Patriots WERE losers but since then, not.
From 1976 to present day, 42 seasons, the Patriots have only had 8 losing seasons, a winning season 81% of the time. Of the 8 losing seasons in that time frame, 5 were consecutive ( 1989-1993)

 

[XLIX]

I just finished his book Offensive Conduct. I thought it was okay, but I had questions about some of the Patriots stuff he talks about in the book as it was well before my time.

• The 1976 playoff game against Oakland. Hannah claims that officials cost them the game on Oakland's go ahead drive and on the subsequent drive by the Patriots. Can anyone tell me if that holds up or what the game felt like at the time?

Yes it holds up. I can't say I was around to experience it at the time, but this is part of Patriots lore and he is spot on.

 

[maust]

To this day for 2 entire generations of Pats fans the name Ben F Dreith is synonymous with bag jobs but probably half his crew was in on it. That game could not have been called more one sided. Today's fans might look at the video of that play and think it's a borderline call but in an era when QB's didn't wear tutus that call didn't exist. QB's were routinely subjected to far worse hits on their follow through after two steps by the defender never mind a play like that where Hamilton had left his feet before the ball was released. Dreith compounded it by saying Stabler was hit in the head, if you can look at the video and find the head shot you'll be the first one in 40 years to do it. As ridiculous as that was on Hamilton it wasn't even the worst incident in the game, the non call on Francis being held (mugged) right in front of the official could be the poster child for an officiating Hall of Shame. I am not a conspiracy or 'fix' guy but that game was a total bag job, the sentiment at the time was the crew had to have money on the game and all these years later it hasn't changed. There just isn't any other plausible explanation for the calls or lack thereof as they happened throughout that game, no crew (not even one led by Corrente) is that incompetent.

Hannah did take heat for his hold out but only because we did not know at the time the Sullivans had acted in bad faith. Once the truth came out we felt like idiots

The Sullivans get far too free a ride in this town. Billy may have brought Pro ball back here but he was little better than a con man. I could go on about the Sullivans ad nauseum but a few simple facts should tell you all you need to know: After Stingley was crippled by Tatum they tried to cancel his medical insurance. They reneged on Hannah & Gray's deals and Russ Francis' Pro Bowl bonus which eventually sent two of the three packing. That trio on the left side led their team to an NFL rushing record that still stands to this day. In spite of Billy starting out in '59 with an initial investment of only $8,300 of his own money and ending up with a team and stadium worth north of $110M by the mid '80's the Sullivans ended up bankrupt, were sued by virtually everyone they did business with and the stadium that held the team's ironclad lease was actually bought out of bankruptcy court by Kraft which is the only reason the team wasn't moved.

 

[Off The Grid]

Already annoyed by three holding penalties against Bill Lenkaitis – who had not been flagged for holding the entire regular season – the Patriots began to distrust this crew after they failed to flag George Atkinson for breaking Russ Francis' nose earlier in the game. Steve Zabel popped it back in place on the sidelines. Late in the fourth, their mistrust would turn to outrage.
After exchanging punts, the Patriots got the ball back at the Raiders 48 yard line and began to move into scoring position as the clock reached the five minute mark. Sam Cunningham headed out of bounds on a 2nd down run near the first down marker, but in the ensuing scrum, was spotted short of the first down marker. Future Hall of Famer John Hannah would protest that the sideline official had moved the marker, forcing the Pats into a 3rd and 1. On the subsequent 3rd and 1 play, Steve Grogan attempted to draw the Raiders offsides with a long count, but the Raider defense responded by yelling fake snap counts of their own, and drew three Patriots into a false start. Now with six yards to go, Grogan attempted a pass to Russ Francis, who was assaulted by Phil Villapiano right in front of an official. With his two arms held behind his back, Francis was unable to make the catch, the ball bouncing off between the "8" and the "1" on his jersey, prompting him to protest for a holding flag on Villapiano, to no avail. On 4th and 6 from the 38, the Patriots attempted a 50-yard field goal that sailed low, giving the Raiders the ball back at the 38 with 4:12 to go, down by four points.

Stabler moved the ball quickly into Patriot territory, getting the Raiders offense down to the Patriot 21 yard line in seven plays with about 90 seconds left to play before he was sacked by the Patriots’ Mel Lunsford. Attempting to convert a 3rd and 18 play, Stabler was smacked by Patriots defensive tackle Ray “Sugar Bear” Hamilton while attempting a deep pass that was incomplete. Ben Dreith threw a flag on Hamilton for roughing the passer, giving the Raiders a first down and moving the ball to the New England 13 yard line. Hamilton and the Patriots sideline protested wildly as play continued, causing Hamilton to pick up an unsportsmanlike conduct call that would give the Raiders another 1st down down near the goal line. After a run by Pete Banaszak was stuffed at the goalline with 14 seconds to go, Prentice McCray got hit with another unsportsmanlike penalty, for protesting the home-job spot. Stabler then lined the offense up with the clock winding down and called his own number, rolling left and plunging into the end zone for a 1-yard run with less than ten seconds remaining, putting the Raiders ahead 24-21. The win would be sealed by a Monte Johnson interception of a Steve Grogan pass with seven seconds remaining.

Ron Borges? Is that you?

You should provide quote marks and a Link ~ here you go ~ when you plagiarize.

 

[Off The Grid]

To this day for 2 entire generations of Pats fans the name Ben F Dreith is synonymous with bag jobs but probably half his crew was in on it. That game could not have been called more one sided. Today's fans might look at the video of that play and think it's a borderline call but in an era when QB's didn't wear tutus that call didn't exist. QB's were routinely subjected to far worse hits on their follow through after two steps by the defender never mind a play like that where Hamilton had left his feet before the ball was released. Dreith compounded it by saying Stabler was hit in the head, if you can look at the video and find the head shot you'll be the first one in 40 years to do it.

As ridiculous as that was on Hamilton it wasn't even the worst incident in the game, the non call on Francis being held (mugged) right in front of the official could be the poster child for an officiating Hall of Shame.

I am not a conspiracy or 'fix' guy but that game was a total bag job, the sentiment at the time was the crew had to have money on the game and all these years later it hasn't changed. There just isn't any other plausible explanation for the calls or lack thereof as they happened throughout that game, no crew (not even one led by Corrente) is that incompetent.

Yep!! 1000% true!!

Phil phucking VillaPiano. Lump of sewage.

That Play was at the bottom of the screen.

I remember it like it was one second ago.

Years later, I'm watching some NFL Films thing, and The Immaculate Reception comes up, and VillaPiano is actually getting pissy about it!! All I could think was "Dude. You're Phil phucking VillaPiano, you cheating piece of shytte. Shut the phuck up."

Oh so many years later, when The Tuck gloriously happened ~ a Play that was actually called correctly, lease we forget ~ I am certain that every last Patriot Fan who was there, back in 1976, thought the same thing: Poetic Justice on a cosmic level!!

 

[Off The Grid]

To this day for 2 entire generations of Pats fans the name Ben F Dreith is synonymous with bag jobs but probably half his crew was in on it.

Nicely put.

I don't mean this in any way unkindly, Brother MeatFace, as there was obviously nothing at all wrong with the question, but it's kind of startling and amusing for me, who remembers that atrocity crystal clearly, 42 years later ~ as do others, I'm certain ~ to read such a reasonable and innocent inquiry in the opening statement: "Hannah claims that officials cost them the game on Oakland's go ahead drive and on the subsequent drive by the Patriots. Can anyone tell me if that holds up or what the game felt like at the time?"

Again: You know that I'm a fan of your work, Bro, and indeed I actually applaud your approach, here, as you're making a point of seeking authentic and thoughtful perspectives. It's just the stark contrast with the boiling rage and in some cases hatred that doth rest in the breast of every Pats Fan who goes back that far...that gave me a startled chuckle.

Kind'f like "Hey, Germany and Japan are our buds, now, of course, but somebody recently suggested to me that we may've had a rather intense disagreement with them, at some point. Does anyone have any information on that, or a perspective that supports it?"

 

[DarrylS]

I thought the Billy Sullivan and his kids were absolute morons who displayed incompetence in the NFL world over and over again.

I wish I could recall the aforementioned games, but that is a weakness, what I do remember is John Hannah in the trenches next to Leon Gray... when they used to practice at Bryant they used to have to walk between ropes to get to the practice field, and we would all stand there waiting for their entrance. John Hannah had the "hugest" thighs of any conditioned man that I have ever seen.. he was a "road grader".. never known for his personality, but a beast on the football field.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I remember the Ben Dreith game as if it were yesterday. Russ Francis has a 1st down pass bounce off his chest because the LB behind him has pulled both his arms out. Then sugar Bear's RTP. Gotta remember rules were different then. RTP only rarely called and only when blatant.
A friend at work terrified his Sicilian immigrant grandfather who spoke no English when he jumped up and smashed the coffee table to smithereens on Dreith's bag job call. Grandfather confused, screaming in Italian wanting to know what happened with his big grandson.
Screw the Raidiz. Snow Bowl was payback, but not even enough as the correct calls were made that January.