frankiesfly
Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.I agree with this assessment completely. I remember Rice whining to the press about how his endorsement opportunities were not equal to Joe Montana's. Alot of Rice's prima donna nature was covered up by the adoring press. He reminds me a bit of Marvin Harrison. Let's just say Rice was no saint. People who blame TO for being selfish have to realize where and with whom he cut his teeth. Say what you want about Moss, and there's alot of baggage there, but he's not a phony. Ever.
How does he remind you of Marvin Harrison? I hate everything about the Colts-but I'm not sure I've even ever heard that man speak.
In terms of production, this year he's had has been better than any year Rice ever had. And there are things that career stats don't reveal. It's no surprise whatsoever that Moss has been the only common denominator between the two highest scoring offenses in NFL history.
I agree with you on the issue of work ethic, but I think you have to look at where Moss came into the league versus where Rice came into the league.
Rice came into the league under Bill Walsh and the 49ers, being thrown to by Joe Montana.
Moss came into the league branded as a problem child. He came into college branded as a problem child. Rather than look at his talent and try to mentor him, most teams looked past him. And I don't believe the Vikings under Dennis Green was the kind of environment he needed to mature in.
Oakland was even worse. If you watch "The Moss Method" you'll see he did put in the hard work and attended the roughest training camps in the off-season. But Oakland didn't know what to do with him and had no way of really tapping his potential. It's like the kids who are too smart for the classes they're in, so they get into trouble out of boredom.
Now, 10 years in, he's been given a shot to work with today's Bill Walsh and Joe Montana. And you can see that now that he's been given that chance, he's exceeded all expectations, been a true team player, found a coach who respects him and can mentor him, and a QB who is good enough to utilize him to his full potential.
It's wrong to characterize Moss as being less than Rice because of career stats or his work ethic when he wasn't in the right environments to excel at either.
If anything, it's the same story as Brady or Belichick. Brady never had the career stats and no one thought Belichick could be a great head coach. He was run out of Cleveland and then bailed on the Jets. Maybe that's the real story of the 2001-2007 Patriots. A team of misfits who were never given the chance to show their greatness coming together to surpass all metrics of greatness.
In short, don't be too fast to judge Moss for his past lest you be willing to hold Belichick's or Brady's against them as well. In time, he will put all doubt to rest about who the greatest WR ever is.
Let's put this in a different light. If we sent Moss back in time and fresh out of college he was drafted into Bill Walsh's 49ers, getting thrown to by Joe Montana, do you think Moss would have set better records than Rice? I sure as hell do.
Send Rice into the future straight out of college and sign him with the Patriots. Do you think he would have set the same numbers as Moss? Or even as high as the ones he had in San Francisco? Personally, I don't think Belichick and Brady would have put up with his whining or ego enough to let him break records.
Marvin has a long history of selfish play. There has been alot of friction in the Colts O over the years about where Manning throws the ball, usually because Harrison resents being anything but the #1 option. This reared its ugly head a great deal as Reggie Wayne emerged as a star. In the Colts playoff loss to the Steelers Harrison acted like a child, sitting on a corner of the bench by himself away from his team. He was sued in Honolulu for assaulting two minors who were seeking his autograph at the probowl. He has famously relied on a diet of junk food throughout his career.
Many of the great receivers have been strange birds. For whatever reason, the selfishness of Harrison and Rice has been glossed over. The selfishness of Moss and TO has been more demonstrative, and become public knowledge. The reason IMO is that Rice one championships, and title rings are great deoderizers. Same for Harrison, plus he plays for in a small market with limited media scrutiny. If he had pulled the same act in Philly, Boston, NY or Chicago, we would all think of him as a prissy prima donna who whines when his stats decline.
I don't buy into any excuses about enviroment. Moss was a problem child.
Rice is selfish, but in a different way.
I also don't buy comparing anything about Brady, Belichick or Moss.
Moss is the most talented WR of all time, and he will likely not touch Rice's records. Rice's records don't end with regular season games. He is off the charts in the playoffs.
I hope that Moss stays with the Pats, and breaks all of Rice's records. But until then, the comparison between him and Rice goes to Rice by a knock-out. One spectacular season is not enough. Rice did it in 12 games, in case you haven't heard.
The saddest thing is that King warned that Moss' comments would alienate future Hall of Fame voters. Claimed he knew voters personally who would not ever vote for Moss because Moss wasn't a nice guy and that Moss' "slap" to Jerrry Rice was further proof.
How is Moss a problem child? He beat up a racist jerk. Thats the only time he broke the law. Everything else are tiny things. Fake mooning, squiring a ref with water, etc. Does that really make someone a "problem child"...
Moss is just targeted by the media. You rarely hear good things about his personality becuase he doesn't talk to the media.
You need to rethink this attitude. You can't judge someone without knowing and acknowledging where they came from.
You mean more like TO? Throwing Joe Montana and Steve Young under the bus isn't very respectable.
If you want your opinion to carry any weight, you should explain why. Waving your hands around and saying "I disagree" doesn't a valid argument make.
You completely contradict yourself with those two statements. You can't say Moss is the most talented WR of all time and then give the nod to Rice. If you want to qualify it and say Rice was the hardest working WR of all time, fine. Or the most statistically successful WR to this point, then fine.
But you cannot extrapolate that to him being the greatest of all time. Not while simultaneously admitting Moss is the most talented ever and has had the single best season of any WR ever now that he's finally in a good environment with a HOF QB like Rice had.
I don't need to re-think anything, thanks very much.
If you say something that just makes no sense, it isn't my duty to pick up the pieces for you no matter what you think. Belichick and Brady's situations are not related to Moss's situation. Moss was high draft pick who was expected to play right away, Brady was a nobody. Belichick was a coach, not a player.
I don't buy into this idea that you can say anything that you like and I need to go into a long expose' on the subject just to disagree with something that is wrong. I disagree. End of story. You have not sufficiently proven any of your imaginary scenarios or far-fetched analogies for me to be convinced. I don't need to argue obscure points to know that you are wrong.
And once again, you grasp at more straws by trying to tell me it is a contradiction to say that Moss is the most talented WR, which is true, and that Jerry Rice is the most productive, or best overall, or most accompolished, or hardest working, or GOAT, or most consistently great, or most likely to go to the HOF, or most famous, or anything else I want to say about Rice. The only thing Moss has on Rice is talent, and talent alone is not enough.
I will skip the imaginary scenarios, the far flung analogies, and will simply state that the GOAT WR will be the one with the stats to back it up. Right now Rice has the stats by a country mile. Maybe one day Moss will catch up, but not after one great season.
Moss never quit on a team.