Jasyon Tatum is still overrated

[1960Pats]

I'm trying to put together a comparison of the HOF players in each era and right now I'm looking for future HOFers that are playing now. I'm willing to give Tatum the benefit of the doubt and add him to the list. Currently I'm also looking at Steph Curry, Embiid and LeBrick. Anyone have any suggestions?

I could also add players to the other eras and I'm open to any suggestions there also;
60ish-75ish I have Wilt, Bill, Wes Unseld and Dave DeBusschere
75ish-85ish I have Kareem, Rick Barry, Dr J and Dave Cowens
85ish-2005ish is Jordan, Bird, Barkley and Ewing.

I've been poking around with some ideas for a couple of weeks and I already have quite a bit of info. Some of it has surprised me.

 

[They_Hate_We]

I'm trying to put together a comparison of the HOF players in each era and right now I'm looking for future HOFers that are playing now. I'm willing to give Tatum the benefit of the doubt and add him to the list. Currently I'm also looking at Steph Curry, Embiid and LeBrick. Anyone have any suggestions?

I could also add players to the other eras and I'm open to any suggestions there also;
60ish-75ish I have Wilt, Bill, Wes Unseld and Dave DeBusschere
75ish-85ish I have Kareem, Rick Barry, Dr J and Dave Cowens
85ish-2005ish is Jordan, Bird, Barkley and Ewing.

I've been poking around with some ideas for a couple of weeks and I already have quite a bit of info. Some of it has surprised me.

If you're including Embiid in the list, then Giannis and Durant should probably be on it. Also, I don't know if he'll win a championship, but I think Doncic will have HoF type numbers throughout his career. Joker as well

 

[cupofjoe1962]

Tatum & Brown - AKA Gag & Choke both have a ton of talent, but both players are not the same players in the clutch during the last couple of minutes of a tight important game.

There game is not the same in the clutch.
Both players decision making is a major obstacle late in a tight game.

They will either toss up a terrible 3, make a bad pass, travel, or do something else idiotic to crush our hopes.

I have been saying this for a couple years to friends & some pushed back after Tatum’s awesome game 7 performance against Philly.

I told them I was not shocked by Tatums performance because he is an elite player and the game was a 2nd half blow out with no “must score” possessions.

I told them, talk to me when he steps up the last 2 minutes of a tight important game late.

As an old fart who idolized Larry Bird, I always remember Bird was at his best with the game on the line.

The Bird steal against the Pistons in the playoffs late & the pass to DJ is the type of play I have never seen from either Tatum or Brown “when it matters most”.

 

[1960Pats]

Tatum & Brown - AKA Gag & Choke both have a ton of talent, but both players are not the same players in the clutch during the last couple of minutes of a tight important game.

There game is not the same in the clutch.
Both players decision making is a major obstacle late in a tight game.

They will either toss up a terrible 3, make a bad pass, travel, or do something else idiotic to crush our hopes.

I have been saying this for a couple years to friends & some pushed back after Tatum’s awesome game 7 performance against Philly.

I told them I was not shocked by Tatums performance because he is an elite player and the game was a 2nd half blow out with no “must score” possessions.

I told them, talk to me when he steps up the last 2 minutes of a tight important game late.

As an old fart who idolized Larry Bird, I always remember Bird was at his best with the game on the line.

The Bird steal against the Pistons in the playoffs late & the pass to DJ is the type of play I have never seen from either Tatum or Brown “when it matters most”.

Great post and a great reminder of one of the most clutch plays in NBA history. I couldn't believe that the Pistons didn't call a timeout but I was sure glad that they didn't.

I've taken some sh!t here for posting my opinion that Tatum is overrated but it's becoming more and more obvious.

Did I hear correctly that Tatum hasn't scored a 4th quarter point yet in this series? If true that pretty much says it all.

At the beginning of the season I started hearing talk about this being the best Celtics team ever. It was a funny joke then but it's more of a sad joke now.

My guess is that the Tatumites will use Mazzula as the excuse for Jason's putrid play.

Charles Barkley said it best. This version of the Celtics is an embarrassment.

 

[1960Pats]

If you're including Embiid in the list, then Giannis and Durant should probably be on it. Also, I don't know if he'll win a championship, but I think Doncic will have HoF type numbers throughout his career. Joker as well

Thanks. What I'm trying to do is make a comparison of how HOF players did against teams with other HOF players. I'm still putting it together. I'm also struggling with who else to put on the list from each era. Like in the early days how would I rate big guys like Nate Thurmond, Walt Bellamy and Zelmo Beaty

There's been a few surprises so far. I was surprised that Larry Bird only has a .470 playoff record vs those teams.

And one of the players who doesn't get enough credit is Kareem. He was no Bill Russell but he has stood out in the comparisons by grading almost identically to Wilt and much better than both Jordan and LeBrick.

I was also going to put Tatum on the current list just to see how it shakes out. He may think he's a potential HOFer but I don't unless he really steps up his game in the future.

 

[The Pylon Pleaser]

well this post certainly aged well

 

[crawhammer]

I don't see the point in picking on Tatum. He's clearly their best, most talented, and most important player. Now someone needs to tell Marcus Smart that. And how much money has Horford stolen at this point with his overrated brand of basketball.

 

[Boston Boxer]

I don't see the point in picking on Tatum. He's clearly their best, most talented, and most important player. Now someone needs to tell Marcus Smart that. And how much money has Horford stolen at this point with his overrated brand of basketball.

every time Smart shoots i cringe. I think we could be better with a traditional PG if there is such a thing anymore. I still say Rondo was the perfect PG

 

[1960Pats]

And now I'm hearing that Mazzula is coming back. Yeow!

 

[Boston Boxer]

And now I'm hearing that Mazzula is coming back. Yeow!

strange because he looked very outmatched. I dont like that he shrunk his bench in the playoffs. He would have been fine if there was any kind of veteran leadership on this team but there is not. Sounds like they are going to sign JB to that ridiculous max deal. Im not sure that is a good idea and spending max dollars for two identical players who dont complement each other is a bad decision imo...but what do i know

 

[1960Pats]

strange because he looked very outmatched. I dont like that he shrunk his bench in the playoffs. He would have been fine if there was any kind of veteran leadership on this team but there is not. Sounds like they are going to sign JB to that ridiculous max deal. Im not sure that is a good idea and spending max dollars for two identical players who dont complement each other is a bad decision imo...but what do i know

And now it's official.

After hearing Brad Stephens kiss their asses and talk about how they came through when their backs were against the wall was nauseating. Was he watching the same playoffs? If ever there was a time and a place to get rid of a HC now is that time. Keeping him will waste more time and set them back further. I guess their excuse will be to avoid changing coaches yet again but this guy is in way over his head.

 

[Real fan 02]

Tatum's turnover there is soooo lazy

JT is a great player, however he's a 7 year veteran and these are the years he needs to become a champion.. I could see if we played championship caliber ball and lost on a buzzer beater in a game 7 to Miami. However to look the way we did and loose in that fashion is worrisome.

I truly hope Steven's explores a true PG to take the ball handling duties away from JT & JB. They are turnover machines.

I believe Steven's calm demeanor is the calming before the storm. Wyc is a fabulous owner and has given the green light to do whatever to make the team a championship contender.

Defense needs to be the hallmark next season. Lamelo ball in Charlotte is my choice at PG.

 

[1960Pats]

Upon further review I admit to being wrong about Tatum.

I've been working on a comparison between HOF players in different eras and potential HOF players playing now. What I found is that it's a good way to compare players in their own era but it still needs some tweaking to get an overall picture.

In the current NBA the top three are 1-Steph Curry, 2-LeBrick James and 3-Jayson Tatum.

 

[Brewskies]

The position: Jason Tatum is over rated.

Not in his mind he is not. He thinks he is the MVP of the league.He believed the poll results during the All-Star game when he was voted as MVP, he thought that vote was for the season to date.not just the All-Star game. After the All-Star game and that Award he played poorly, if you didn't notice.

But I must say: if Jason Tatum is over rated then what should we say about Jaylen Brown? Of the two IMO Jaylen is over rated. In his head he thinks he is better than anyone on the team.

BTW, not one word from Jaylen Brown about the Marcus Smart Trade. I know they had words during the season, bad words, and during the playoffs.

 

[1960Pats]

The position: Jason Tatum is over rated.

Not in his mind he is not. He thinks he is the MVP of the league.He believed the poll results during the All-Star game when he was voted as MVP, he thought that vote was for the season to date.not just the All-Star game. After the All-Star game and that Award he played poorly, if you didn't notice.

But I must say: if Jason Tatum is over rated then what should we say about Jaylen Brown? Of the two IMO Jaylen is over rated. In his head he thinks he is better than anyone on the team.

BTW, not one word from Jaylen Brown about the Marcus Smart Trade. I know they had words during the season, bad words, and during the playoffs.

If one of Brown or Smart had to go then Smart would be my choice.

 

[Brewskies]

https://www.si.com/nba/celtics/top-stories/jayson-tatum-and-jaylen-brown-snubbed-on-top-five-nba-duos-list

I don't think they were snubbed, I think they are where they belong. Tatum is a good player and Brown is less but good but they are not close to Doncic and Irving IMO. They can be, but Brown must improve and Tatum needs to clear his head and just play ball and stop whining.

Tatum thinks he is the MVP right now. He hasn't been. He could be but he was 4th and IMO he screwed himself after the all star game where he thought he was so great. His play fell off with the Celtics. New season coming up.

 

[Brewskies]

We have a new Tatum this season; less whining to the refs and he is taking control of the games. Does he have a bad night once in a while, sure, but the is the beauty of this '23-24 team, he can step out and there is a strong replacement ready to go.

As for Jaylen Turnover Brown, he hasn't shown leadership to me. He has had one game he turned up his point totals but the rest of the games it is the same Jaylen Turnover Brown.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

We have a new Tatum this season; less whining to the refs and he is taking control of the games. Does he have a bad night once in a while, sure, but the is the beauty of this '23-24 team, he can step out and there is a strong replacement ready to go.

As for Jaylen Turnover Brown, he hasn't shown leadership to me. He has had one game he turned up his point totals but the rest of the games it is the same Jaylen Turnover Brown.

Old guy yelling at the wind. Sad.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

We have a new Tatum this season; less whining to the refs and he is taking control of the games. Does he have a bad night once in a while, sure, but the is the beauty of this '23-24 team, he can step out and there is a strong replacement ready to go.

As for Jaylen Turnover Brown, he hasn't shown leadership to me. He has had one game he turned up his point totals but the rest of the games it is the same Jaylen Turnover Brown.

Tatum is smooth. Wow he is great so far this season. 56% field goal shooting so far. It is very obvious he works like crazy to improve his game each offseason. He has become a great finisher at the rim and his rebounding is also noticeably better. When he gets the ball against a single defender and the paint is cleared it’s almost an automatic basket with his speed and length. Serious MVP contender.

Brown clearly did not improve once again and remains the same frustrating player who thrives in blowouts against soft defenses (almost like an all star game exhibition) but is garbage against high pressure defenses. Still sucks as dribbling, still can’t go left, has no court vision, defense at best average. Overall inconsistent and one dimensional. IMO he’s their fifth best player. In roughly half the games he’s an actual minus and they’d be better playing a rotational guy and giving more shot attempts to everyone else.

 

[1960Pats]

We have a new Tatum this season; less whining to the refs and he is taking control of the games. Does he have a bad night once in a while, sure, but the is the beauty of this '23-24 team, he can step out and there is a strong replacement ready to go.

As for Jaylen Turnover Brown, he hasn't shown leadership to me. He has had one game he turned up his point totals but the rest of the games it is the same Jaylen Turnover Brown.

I'm glad this thread got bumped because I was wrong about Tatum. He may not be super clutch (hopefully he will be) but he's clearly talented and could be the top player in the league when Curry and LeBrick are done, if they aren't done already.

I always liked Brown's game and maybe he'll find a comfortable role now that Smart's gone.

As for turnovers, I have two things to say on that.
1 - Tatum and Brown are pretty close in TOs.
2 - I like raspberry most of all.