Is this team physical enough to win?

[JMC00]

Eric Allen spent an entire segment the other day on NFLN talking about this very point.

The same Eric Allen whose last game of his career was in Foxboro on Jan 19, 2002?

 

[everlong]

I have hopes that this defense can become more physical than it's been in recent years but I will say Adrian Wilson was part of those hopes and he's been more Artrell Hawkins than Rodney Harrison. I still think they can be physical at all three levels. My concern with the defense more than physicality coverage by the LBs and safeties.

Offense however they aren't physical and get beat by athletic physical defensive lines often. They still run more through scheme than power. Develin getting stuff the other night on short yardage was disconcerting. They need to be able to run on 3rd/4th and short so the defense has to honor it. In games when they've done poorly teams have shut them down in those situations especially in the red zone.

 

[Julius]

I doubt film of either player causes opposing Olineman to even sit up straight in the meeting room.

Kelly is a veteran retread worth nothing more than a YAWN!

And last year once the opposing offenses chipped Jones at the LOS, he was toast. I am hopeful Jones has a second year leap this season and becomes a force off the edge. However through TC thus far I am not seeing it.

PS: As for Spikes. Hello? Have you seen him move? He is slower than paint drying.

When Kelly and Wilfork have been together they have done a great job of pushing the pocket. Kelly in particular looked very good in those first two games.

Our center is finesse and we are down one legitimate guard right now, but the tackles are solid.

Compared to last year when we had Loyd, Branch, Woodhead, on offense, this years group "should" be more physical.

 

[jmt57]

Huh? The Packers?? wah??
Verses physical fronts, the Pats shrivel. Eric Allen spent an entire segment the other day on NFLN talking about this very point. Guess its obvious to everyone without a foam finger blocking their view.
And why is this called trolling? Because it isn't pro Pats? What are we 12!

Whooshhhhhhhhhhh.....

You completely missed the point.




It has nothing to do with being your favorite term of derision (foam finger fans unite!) for anybody that does not share your point of view, and everything to do with cherry picking games or stats to allegedly prove something.

If the only games you take into consideration are the ones that a team lost (any team, it doesn't matter which one), then lo and behold - surprise Captain Obvious: that team looks bad!


If you still think that I am wrong, then please look strictly at the losses of any team of your choosing, and then show us how that team looks good.

If you are unable to do so then your point is meaningless.

 

[DocHoliday]

I wouldn't say the team is finesse - but our offensive line, particular C and RG certainly are.

We've been playing around with these two positions for the better part of the decade. We all praise Dante for making something usable from the scrap heap, but at the end of the day perfect technique won't stand up to elite DTs.

The team doesn't get enough push up front in running plays.

 

[Observer]

I wouldn't say the team is finesse - but our offensive line, particular C and RG certainly are.

We've been playing around with these two positions for the better part of the decade. We all praise Dante for making something usable from the scrap heap, but at the end of the day perfect technique won't stand up to elite DTs.

The team doesn't get enough push up front in running plays.

I agree with this. The OL does not seem to be able to get that push when it is most necessary. We go from scoring 50 points to being unable to run or pass when faced with strong defensive lines, the difference is very prominent. When we lose, it is typically not because the other team had better scheme, better technique, better discipline or better talent - it is because they played stronger particularly on the defensive line compared to our OL.

 

[JMC00]

I agree with this. The OL does not seem to be able to get that push when it is most necessary.

Certainly got that push in the game against Miami when the Pats ran the ball down their throats on that clock killing drive.

Did it so well one of Miami's players complained about it.

 

[Rob0729]

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games. Each game is different. To say the Pats get out muscled by physical teams is just not true. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't.

The same Pats' offense that struggled against the Ravens in the AFCCG had no problem scoring agains them in week 2. The difference in the playoffs is that the Pats didn't have Gronk as a red zone target and the Pats struggled when they got inside the 20s.

Brady had no problem moving the ball on the Giants in the second half of the Super Bowl up until he injured his non-throwing shoulder.

People claim that is why the Pats lost to the Jets in the playoffs in the 2010 season and that couldn't be farther from the truth. The Pats lost mostly because Ryan and Co. changed things up in their coverages and switched from a pure man-to-man to a zone flooding the center of the field and the Pats weren't ready for it. Most of the time they got pressure on Brady was due to great coverage.

There is many reasons why teams lose. Few teams lose because of just one reason. The media likes to oversimplify these reasons to make entertaining segments, but rarely is it that simple.

If it was the case that the main reason the Pats haven't won a Super Bowl is because they are a finesse team, Belichick would have addressed it more. Belichick typically addresses the problems of this team aggressively even if people don't agree how he addresses it and whether he is 100% successful at it.

 

[borg]

Whooshhhhhhhhhhh.....

You completely missed the point.




It has nothing to do with being your favorite term of derision (foam finger fans unite!) for anybody that does not share your point of view, and everything to do with cherry picking games or stats to allegedly prove something.

If the only games you take into consideration are the ones that a team lost (any team, it doesn't matter which one), then lo and behold - surprise Captain Obvious: that team looks bad!


If you still think that I am wrong, then please look strictly at the losses of any team of your choosing, and then show us how that team looks good.

If you are unable to do so then your point is meaningless.[/QUO

I could care less how other teams matchup up against the physical teams that whoop the Pats O line. I care about how the Pats stack up vs teams on their schedule. Last year, the teams that beat up on the Pats O line beat the Pats. And Pats have gotten in a bad habit of losing the last game every year...to the physical D lines. Baltimore had a 3 man D line that dominated the Pats 5OL + TEs. Brady managed 1 TD. NE scored 3 points in the 1st half vs SF...then Harbaugh pulled a BB and went prevent...allowing Brady to breathe and thrive. As soon as SF attacked again, game over.
My point.....its the same O line without the TEs. I don't see how this group all of sudden can morph into something they haven't been for years...especially with the newbie pass catchers. The biggest blessing is that they won't play the NFC West this year and instead get to play the hot messes of the NFC East. Cincy and Balt will be tests, maybe Cleve....but not in the class of SF or Seat.

 

[Rob0729]

And the Pats are far less of a finesse team than they once were. Ridley is a bowling ball of a RB and Gronk is a monster. Solder is far more physical than Light was. Blount and Bolden if they make the team are also big physical RBs. So far Thompkins looks very physical shedding blocks at the line and breaking free of coverage.

 

[fnordcircle]

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

People always want to oversimplify why the Pats lose games.

Amen. There's on the nose and then there's this post.

Other than a few players - Deion Sanders comes to mind - the 'finesse' title is really just a glib attempt to sum up why a bunch of tough guys lost to another bunch of tough guys.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I think this D can and will be very physical come this season

 

[50-yard-line]

The biggest blessing is that they won't play the NFC West this year and instead get to play the hot messes of the NFC East. Cincy and Balt will be tests, maybe Cleve....but not in the class of SF or Seat.

I believe they play the NFC South this year, not the east.

 

[Rob0729]

Amen. There's on the nose and then there's this post.

Other than a few players - Deion Sanders comes to mind - the 'finesse' title is really just a glib attempt to sum up why a bunch of tough guys lost to another bunch of tough guys.

Call me crazy, but I think you may have liked that quote from my post. I tend to be perceptive about these things and I think there was a subtile hint that you thought it was a good line.

 

[manxman2601]

Call me crazy, but I think you may have liked that quote from my post. I tend to be perceptive about these things and I think there was a subtile hint that you thought it was a good line.

No, apparently he just has the shakes (it's the alcohol I hear).

 

[manxman2601]

It's not the lack of physicality of the defense that concerns me, it's the stiffness. It's a very good defense at containing plays within the box, much weaker once plays breakdown.

 

[ATippett56]

However when we line up against brutes, the Ravens, the Bengals,the 49ers, the Lions etc. we are going to get destroyed. BB has collected a lot of pretty panties for the locker room and that is not good.

BB where is the physicality? Where is the attitude? Where is the nastiness?

This team is fast becoming a punching bag for the physical NFL teams to be beat us like dogs.

Our defense sucks toilet water. They spend more time thinking about assignments than flowing to the ball. Our pass rushers are pathetic and I think I heard Chandler Jones apologize to a Lions O-Lineman for knocking him over.

Our offense is a toothless precision offense, with only Mankins and Gronkowski put a whipping on their opponents. And Gronkowski is out! Ouch!

Why do we have 80 guys on the injury list every week, because we take more hits than we give! This is a weak group BB.

Nothing like bringing a baseball bat to the hornet's nest.

 

[borg]

I believe they play the NFC South this year, not the east.

What was I thinking.

 

[51Hits]

I think he has a point (minus all the other extreme remarks)

To me, this OL is soft. Every time be it the Giants, Ravens, or any team with a tough defensive front and this team can't seem to move nearly
the same. This concerns me because every year in the playoffs there's at least one team with a tough defensive front. It's not Brady, or the RBs/WRs job to be physical all day. That's the oline's.

I'm gonna be very curious to see what happens with this unit. By the way, I honestly haven't been paying to TC nearly as much this year. What's the story with Marcus Cannon?

 

[VrabelJr]

I think he has a point (minus all the other extreme remarks)

To me, this OL is soft. Every time be it the Giants, Ravens, or any team with a tough defensive front and this team can't seem to move nearly
the same. This concerns me because every year in the playoffs there's at least one team with a tough defensive front. It's not Brady, or the RBs/WRs job to be physical all day. That's the oline's.

I'm gonna be very curious to see what happens with this unit. By the way, I honestly haven't been paying to TC nearly as much this year. What's the story with Marcus Cannon?

It's mostly delusion. Two of the other 31 NFL teams happened to have good success against our OL in pretty important games. Lost in all of this is how our OL dominated Houston twice last year and the Rams. Two very good defensive fronts.

Our losses in the big games weren't because we got out played in the trenches. We lost because the refs weren't going to call offensive holding or defensive holding/pass interference and our coaches didn't adjust to that while the Ravens and Giants coaches did.