Is Edelman being underestimated?

[Kontradiction]

When Edelman started, he had 7 rec/game. That isn't a #4 guy. He appeared to be a #4, because his skill set puts him in a similar role to Welker. When Wes wath healthy, Edelman rarely played. He's a slot guy, and is VERY productive when he plays.

That was because of the huge game he had against the Jets when Welker was out. When Welker came back, he was a #4 WR. I love Edelman and I'm not knocking the guy, but he was what he was. To be a WR4 in this system in your rookie season ON TOP of transitioning from college QB to WR is very impressive. But he was a WR4. There is no way around that.

 

[Patjew]

No, I think he will be a good receiver but I don't think he's consistent enough. Sure, he had a good game against the Ravens but he wasn't the focus and the game was already out of hand. Also, there were times during the year where he would dance around after a catch instead of trying to go though defenders out of position for the 1st down. Two examples of this which killed critical drives were week 2 against the Jets and on Monday night against the Colts. He will obviously have a better year in 2010, but I think 2011 will be his year.

Sounds reasonable. Now get Doogie out of your sig and I'll get on board with you.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

That was because of the huge game he had against the Jets when Welker was out. When Welker came back, he was a #4 WR. I love Edelman and I'm not knocking the guy, but he was what he was. To be a WR4 in this system in your rookie season ON TOP of transitioning from college QB to WR is very impressive. But he was a WR4. There is no way around that.

Why then, would a #4 be a #2, when the #3 is still there? From your logic, shouldn't the #3 move to #2 if your #2 is injured?

Thinking in terms of numbered recivers is fundamentally flawed. In most systems, players fit specific roles, and the system defines those roles. In most sets, the Pats have only 1 pure slot receiver on the field. Since Welker is clearly the best slot receiver in the game, Edelman would rarely see the field. If Welker goes out, Edelman will then get most of the snaps (which he did). With the influx of talent this year, if Welker is healthy, Edelman will rarely be in during 4 WR sets (Hernandez, Price and Holt would be a more likely 4th). However, before Welker comes back, he'll likely be in most 2 WR sets and all of the 3WR sets.

Basically, I'm not comfortable with the label of a #4 receiver on one such as Edelman. He would be the starting slot receiver on most teams... since Welker has redined the postion anyway.

 

[TBradyOwnsYou]

In the 4 games that Welker didn't play Atl, NYJ, Hou (injured ealry 1st quarter) and Balt Edelman had 27 catches 265 yds 2 TDs. If you project that over 16 games it's 108 catches 1060 yds 8 Tds. Considering he was a rookie, who never played WR he had an unbelievable year. I'm not saying we won't miss Welker, who has better hands, but it's realistic to think Edelman will be even better.

The national media don't watch all the Pats games they are looking at the 37 catches for the year. The problem was because Welker/Edelman are pure slot guys it was hard to effectively use them at the same time. I hope that when (if) Welker comes back the coaches can come up with some creative ways to use them effectively when there are on the field at the same time.

This one time Brady threw for 5TDs in one quarter. If you project that over 16 games it's 320 TDs!! just because a player had a good few games doesn't mean the player would have a good season. Until Edelman produces for a few consistant years, one really can't make assumptions about his career.

I don't agree with this. Edelman might be a little taller, but he appears to have a much higer center of gravity than Welker does. Welker's core and legs are very powerful. If you see Welker in person in "street cloths", you'll notice he's a lot thicker than he appears in pads on TV.

So, in less politically correct terms, Welker has junk in the trunk?? I would agree though, except after an injury like he recieved he might never be as good as he used to be.

 

[Kontradiction]

No offense, but this is one of the most pointless arguments anybody has tried to get into with me about this team. It almost just sounds like you're trying to argue out of boredom or arguing just to hear yourself argue.

Why then, would a #4 be a #2, when the #3 is still there? From your logic, shouldn't the #3 move to #2 if your #2 is injured?

Because Edelman is more suited to play the slot than Aiken.

Thinking in terms of numbered recivers is fundamentally flawed. In most systems, players fit specific roles, and the system defines those roles. In most sets, the Pats have only 1 pure slot receiver on the field. Since Welker is clearly the best slot receiver in the game, Edelman would rarely see the field. If Welker goes out, Edelman will then get most of the snaps (which he did). With the influx of talent this year, if Welker is healthy, Edelman will rarely be in during 4 WR sets (Hernandez, Price and Holt would be a more likely 4th). However, before Welker comes back, he'll likely be in most 2 WR sets and all of the 3WR sets.

It's not fundamentally flawed. If we didn't think that way, Welker would be the WR1 and Moss would be the WR2. The receiver Brady targeted third most would be the WR3. Are you going to try to tell me that you would call Kevin Faulk or whomever else Brady targeted the WR3? I'm not buying that. Moss is the WR1, Aiken was the WR2, Welker was the WR3, and Edelman was the WR4. When Welker was not there, Edelman was the WR3. This year, I expect it to be Moss (WR1), Holt (WR2, split wide), Edelman (WR3 if Welker can't go by Week 1, otherwise Welker is WR3), and a battle royale between Tate, Price, Edelman, and Hernandez for WR4 and WR5 should we decide to spread them out. In 2011, with Moss and Holt likely gone, things should open up for guys like Edelman, Price, and Hernandez.

Basically, I'm not comfortable with the label of a #4 receiver on one such as Edelman. He would be the starting slot receiver on most teams... since Welker has redined the postion anyway.

But this isn't most teams. We have the best slot receiver in the league. That makes/made Edelman a WR4 since the team was more comfortable with him playing in the slot as opposed to split wide instead of Aiken.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Thinking in terms of numbered recivers is fundamentally flawed.

Agreed.

In most systems, players fit specific roles, and the system defines those roles. In most sets, the Pats have only 1 pure slot receiver on the field. Since Welker is clearly the best slot receiver in the game, Edelman would rarely see the field. If Welker goes out, Edelman will then get most of the snaps (which he did). With the influx of talent this year, if Welker is healthy, Edelman will rarely be in during 4 WR sets (Hernandez, Price and Holt would be a more likely 4th). However, before Welker comes back, he'll likely be in most 2 WR sets and all of the 3WR sets.

One thing I think we're going to see a lot of this season is diversity of formations, especially once Welker gets back.

In the TEN game, the Patriots actually had three different 2WR sets: one with your standard Moss/Welker, one with Moss/Aiken, and one with Welker/Edelman.

 

[mgteich]

Many folks think of him as almost as good as Welker and as a solid starting slot receiver. If that is the position taken, then he is being OVERestimated. He may reach this point, but he isn't there yet.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

In the TEN game, the Patriots actually had three different 2WR sets: one with your standard Moss/Welker, one with Moss/Aiken, and one with Welker/Edelman.

I remember that, it looked really strange. Moss' health may have had something to do with that.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Many folks think of him as almost as good as Welker and as a solid starting slot receiver. If that is the position taken, then he is being OVERestimated. He may reach this point, but he isn't there yet.

I don't think anyone thinks that Edelman is a good as Welker. At least i hope not.

 

[Patriot 37]

This one time Brady threw for 5TDs in one quarter. If you project that over 16 games it's 320 TDs!! just because a player had a good few games doesn't mean the player would have a good season. Until Edelman produces for a few consistant years, one really can't make assumptions about his career.

You and couple others on this thread don't seem to understand that a slot WR is completely different than the outside WR positions. Read NEGoldenage's post above yours he does excellent job of explaining it. I didn't cherry pick a few good games, In the 4 games were Edelman played in the slot he played well and put up good #s. When Welker was healthly he was either on the bench or on the outside.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Saying Edelman is maybe better than Wes because he's stronger, faster etc is nonsense

Welker has smarts, has an explosive turn of direction and acceleration (the sort where he can change direction on a middle linebacker and immediately get open) and gets a lot of YAC because he's a tough little bugger

Edelman did great last year but he wasnt asked to run nearly as many routes as Welker did and we dont know if he ever ran his own option routes which Wes obviously did

Saying all that its awesome to have the both of them

Yeah, Edleman isn't a bionic version Welker, and the kid still has plenty of learning to do.

I think one point in his favor (potential) for this offense is being able to look at the field with a QB mindset. This may give him an edge because that's the type of skill you need to click with Brady (and he doesn't have years of any preconcieved pro-offense to try and relate to).

all that beinf said, I'm optimistic about his future and taking reps in the punting game away from Welker would be a big plus as well (keep Welker fresher, though the guy rarely shows any signs of slowing down..the 1 hit from Pittsburgh being the lone exception and they would have had to call the morgue if I had taken that hit).

 

[Deus Irae]

Why then, would a #4 be a #2, when the #3 is still there? From your logic, shouldn't the #3 move to #2 if your #2 is injured?

Thinking in terms of numbered recivers is fundamentally flawed. In most systems, players fit specific roles, and the system defines those roles. In most sets, the Pats have only 1 pure slot receiver on the field. Since Welker is clearly the best slot receiver in the game, Edelman would rarely see the field. If Welker goes out, Edelman will then get most of the snaps (which he did). With the influx of talent this year, if Welker is healthy, Edelman will rarely be in during 4 WR sets (Hernandez, Price and Holt would be a more likely 4th). However, before Welker comes back, he'll likely be in most 2 WR sets and all of the 3WR sets.

Basically, I'm not comfortable with the label of a #4 receiver on one such as Edelman. He would be the starting slot receiver on most teams... since Welker has redined the postion anyway.

I know that it's the offseason, but come on.

On the Patriots:

Moss - WR1
Welker - WR2
Aiken - WR3
Edelman - WR4, as Welker's backup


This isn't difficult stuff or, rather, it shouldn't be. And what Edelman would be on another team is absolutely irrelevant. On the Patriots, he's Wes Welker's backup. That makes him no higher than WR4. If two of the other receivers show well enough to gain big time rather than just the Aiken replacement doing so, he might fall as far as WR5, should Welker return and play to form.

 

[Ring 6]

Call me when a #4 receiver starts a game because he obviously wasn't #4 that game if he was starting, depth charts do change game to game because of injuries n such.

How would you describe this guy:

Is best suited to play the same position as your most productive WR.
Is among a group of players who share snaps behind the 1 and 2/
If the slot recevier is out, he gets the most reps.

I'd have to say that sounds mostly like a #4. Thats not an insult its a description (somewhat flawed) of his role last season. To say he was very good as a #4 is also accurate.

 

[Triumph]

Yeah, but Welker's the better kicker.

Variteks a better kicker than the both of them.

 

[Triumph]

I read that Edelman has an extra gear that Welker doesnt have. I dont see why Edelman wouldnt go back in the slot since he played there when Welker was out. I like his chances

Hopefully, the Pats spread that ball around like old times instead of just passing to Moss or the slot guy.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Teams will be more prepared for Edelman this season,last year he caught everyone by surprise when he was healthy,actually no one really knew who the hell he was or what he could do - they have more film on him now,we shall see if he progresses or regresses.

 

[patsinthesnow]

IMO, Welker-Edelman is the same as Brady-Cassel. Brady is one of the best in the game and can't be replaced, but luckily backup Cassel proved to be a solid/above average starter. (In NE, KC is a mess).

The difference is Edelman has the potential to become almost as good as Welker.

 

[Ring 6]

No offense, but this is one of the most pointless arguments anybody has tried to get into with me about this team. It almost just sounds like you're trying to argue out of boredom or arguing just to hear yourself argue.



Because Edelman is more suited to play the slot than Aiken.



It's not fundamentally flawed. If we didn't think that way, Welker would be the WR1 and Moss would be the WR2. The receiver Brady targeted third most would be the WR3. Are you going to try to tell me that you would call Kevin Faulk or whomever else Brady targeted the WR3? I'm not buying that. Moss is the WR1, Aiken was the WR2, Welker was the WR3, and Edelman was the WR4. When Welker was not there, Edelman was the WR3. This year, I expect it to be Moss (WR1), Holt (WR2, split wide), Edelman (WR3 if Welker can't go by Week 1, otherwise Welker is WR3), and a battle royale between Tate, Price, Edelman, and Hernandez for WR4 and WR5 should we decide to spread them out. In 2011, with Moss and Holt likely gone, things should open up for guys like Edelman, Price, and Hernandez.



But this isn't most teams. We have the best slot receiver in the league. That makes/made Edelman a WR4 since the team was more comfortable with him playing in the slot as opposed to split wide instead of Aiken.

A couple of points.
Welker was the 2 not Aiken. When we had 2 WRs on the field it was Moss and Welker. Welker played the slot on 3rd down, but that doesnt make him the #3.
Its hard to distinguish who was the #3 actually. It was Galloway for a while. Edelman also missed a lot of game. I'd say in the games Edelman and Aiken were both healthy they played about equally.

Profotballfocus shows its unclear.
Aiken did not play in 4 games (i do not think he was injured) and Edleman played in those, yet only didnt play when he was injured (missed 5 games)

There were 8 games when both played.
in 3 Edleman played more, in 3 Aiken played more and in 2 they played the same amount of snaps.
In those particular games they totalled
Aiken 243 snaps
Edelman 201 snaps

So it appears that they shared the "#3" spot with Aiken getting a few more snaps than Edleman. It should be noted also that for the entire season (skewed due to Edlemans injury) Aiken participated in 10 more pass plays and 62 more rushing plays (and had the highest % of rushing plays of any of our WRs) so it would seem his blocking factors in as well.

 

[PatsChamp88]

How would you describe this guy:

Is best suited to play the same position as your most productive WR.
Is among a group of players who share snaps behind the 1 and 2/
If the slot recevier is out, he gets the most reps.

I'd have to say that sounds mostly like a #4. Thats not an insult its a description (somewhat flawed) of his role last season. To say he was very good as a #4 is also accurate.

I was referring to when he wasn't #4 on the depth chart because of injuries last year

 

[Ring 6]

I was referring to when he wasn't #4 on the depth chart because of injuries last year

Right.
Put it this way.
There are 2 WRs.
He backed up one of them.
Sometimes there are 3 WRs. The other backup played more often than he did when we used 3.
Other than a long description like that, #4 is not a poor way to refer to his role.