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How Can the Pats Stop the Ravens?


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When you have a guy like Gilmore who can take away the other teams top receiver, it really makes defense a whole lot easier.

this will be an extremely underrated facet of playing the ravens again that no one will talk about since they don’t have a “star” and the offense is predicated on running. Gilmore will allow bill to do different things
 
The .more the ravens put on tape, the better off we will be. Just have to keep them from getting to the second level on the runs, and trust in the man coverage to stymie the passing game.

A guy like vita vea would be nice to have right about now...
 
The Ravens don’t worry me, but darn that is one hot team right now. If we lose to them, so be it. I suspect Jackson will be slower towards the end of the season since he runs with reckless abandon, which is why this offense won’t work for long in the NFL. Teams will figure him out, and it’s obvious he has tendencies and, despite amazing talents, giant weaknesses that can be exploited. I feel like they’re peaking too soon and will come crashing down at the wrong time. When things seem this easy, that doesn’t last long, and I’m doubling down on Jackson’s talents washing out at the professional level before long. This dual threat QB with questionable accuracy is absolutely nothing revolutionary; it’s just a matter of time before the toll of injuries slows down his quickness and domino effects everything in that offense.

The 49ers worry me. I’m just rooting for any team to take them down, since that matchup is so brutal. They don’t rely on their receivers to open up their offense, so the Patriots entire defensive strength would be neutralized; they have a game changing tight end (Gilmore would probably try to cover him, though that might not work), a great fullback, and run the ball extremely well. Kyle Shanahan is a really, really good coach. Belichick defenses tend to struggle against the Shanahan-Kubiak zone blocking scheme because it often breaks down into a battle of fundamental skills between players rather than a scheming match between coaches, kind of like RPOs. And that defense would just frustrate the Patriots offense by winning at all three levels, beginning with a great interior pass rush that’s very disruptive. Barring injuries, I really have trouble envisioning how these Patriots could beat these 49ers. They matchup so much better with a team like the Saints, Seahawks, Vikings or Packers.
 
What Eric Mangini said makes sense to me. He said you just drill Jackson every time they run the option. Don't even try to read it, just drill Jackson every time. Then see if he still wants to run the option in the 4th Quarter.
 
In the light of recent Baltimore performances, the Pats showing in Baltimore doesn't look quite so bad now.
 
How on earth did the Ravens lose to the Browns! Any tips from that game we can use ?
 
Scour game tape of college football that has success defending this type of offense. Get interns working on it now.
 
If I'm a Ravens fan, i'm hoping my team hasnt peaked. I'd rather save my creative juices and gameplans for January. NE is flat on offense right now, but 4-5 more weeks to figure it out to get hot when it really matters.

Also, crunch Jackson. A lot.
 
Niners may face them twice which is kinda crazy. Who beats San Fran in the NFC? Can you see Cousins winning on the road? I can't. The Saints look beatable now. So if the Pats can't beat the Ravens the Niners will get 2 cracks at them.
 
Remember the old double eagle front that shut down those running offenses? I don’t either. But they were the thing in the 60s. Basically it’s a five man defensive line. Arizona or AzState ran something similar in the 90s. It has flaws against the pass. It leaves single coverage on the outside with a single FS playing the entire backend.
 
The Ravens look great, but there are many good teams this year who can knock each other out, especially in the NFC.

I’m most impressed with their ability to use 3 TE sets and basically have 8 OL with an option attack. That’s crazy.
 
LJ is truly a breath of fresh air and so exciting to watch. The most dynamic offensive player to come into the league in a long time. The fact that we passed over him for Sony makes it very painful to think what could have been. Many were 100% hoping the pats would pick LJ at that spot.
Its not just LJ, although he makes every one on that team better.

They have solid lines on both sides of the ball. Kudos to Harbaugh for having the vision and imagination to transform his team so quickly. Right now the Ravens are the best team in the NFL and its not even close. That could change with just 1 or 2 injuries, but very impressed with Raven's perfectly executed plan to make their team a championship contender
When are the people with the full 20-20 hindsight going to realize that HAD Jackson been chosen in the 2018 draft, he STILL would be sitting behind Tom Brady and no one would have heard of him except to laud him for the great job he'd been doing running the scout team.

Get over it. This sh!t is worse that the JG garbage I've had to endure on these pages. Timing is everything so I guess we'll have to learn to live with the QB we got. :rolleyes:

Now children just listen while Grandpa Ken schools you on some football history tonight.

What you are seeing from the Ravens isn't anything new at all. In fact it is very VERY old. The Ravens offense is just a rehashed version of the old single wing offense that was all the rage in the 20's, 30's, and 4o's, and didn't become dated until the early 50's when the wing-T formation began to come into prominence. This marks the tine when the QB starts the play from under C. Back when I coached, there was still ONE team in the area that ran the T and wing T into the late 70's. North Quincy HS still ran it, and it was a tough thing to stop since you only saw it once a year. And as the DC it was my job to stop it.

I wish it was 20 years ago when I still had boxes of my old game plans. I remember I had a great one for that week that worked beautifully, but that just about all I got. Here's what I DO remember about the single wing.

a. In its base form you'd have 3 backs in the backfield, 2 TE's. With a direct snap to a QB who was both the primary runner and passer. With all kinds of backfield movement and counter off it, you generally could create numbers advantages to one side or another. You could also run options off of it, and almost EVERY pass comes off a play action pass. The Ravens do the same thing only using a TE and RB, and sometimes 2 TE to go along with Jackson in the backfield.

b. I recall that we determined that looking into the backfield was a fools errand, though reading the line proved to be a solid key. So that would be my first thing. Break down what they are doing and come up with some line keys that give the LB's their first direction.

c. Some of this is coming back. IIRC when they were in a run situation, which was most of the time, we lined up in a 6-2. For the Pats it would come out as a 4 DL and 2 ILB's with 2 OLB's on the LOS with 3 DB's. With the secondary guys we have vs the receivers they have we can play something like this effectively, especially if they use the 2 TE's in the backfield like they did when they played us. I don't see us playing a 3-4 front.

d. WIN the LOS. It's actually coming back now. I had my 6 down linemen play head on the G, T, and TE's. I had my the guys on the OT's play off the LOS a yard, like the Cowboys of the 70's did with their DL. Then based on the keys, formations and motions the LB's would call out prearranged gap numbers and the DLmen would twist or hit gaps and really screwed up their blocking schemes. Hard to explain in words.

At any rate it worked far better than I had a right to expect. It was a one week fix. We ran a pretty standard 5-2 Oakie which is what they called the 3-4 back then every other game. In those days the 5-2 and the Penn State 4-4 were what most H.S's ran. AND now I'm rambling. Sorry

Here's the thing. Bill knows what this is. I know Jackson threw for 5 TD, but he STILL threw for only about 160 yds in total. So this is ALL about stopping the run, and stopping it from a SINGLE WING offense.

Give Baltimore credit for creating the perfect offense for the talent they have on hand. But this is working BECAUSE it is new, just like Bears' 4-6 terrorized NFL teams for 2 years, and Walsh his West Coast offense for a while. Remember the run and shoot. Well you probably don't but it killed for a nanosecond as well. There was even a moment in time when the triple option was used and was effective.

I bet Bill has guys researching old archives for the kind of single wing offenses that MOST resemble what the Ravens are doing and WHAT defensive concepts were most effective in stopping them.

We saw what this defense did to the top offense in the NFL last Sunday. I don't care if the Ravens beat the rest of their schedule 50-0, I trust that Bill will have them ready to play a special game against them.

I won't mind if the Ravens have their hour in the sun. Let the media crown their asses in December, JUST like they did KC last season. I LIKE being the underdog for a change, and I'm sure Bill will let his team know how much everyone wants them out of contention every week from now on.
 
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When are the people with the full 20-20 hindsight going to realize that HAD Jackson been chosen in the 2018 draft, he STILL would be sitting behind Tom Brady and no one would have heard of him except to laud him for the great job he'd been doing running the scout team.

Get over it. This sh!t is worse that the JG garbage I've had to endure on these pages. Timing is everything so I guess we'll have to learn to live with the QB we got. :rolleyes:

Now children just listen while Grandpa Ken schools you on some football history tonight.

What you are seeing from the Ravens isn't anything new at all. In fact it is very VERY old. The Ravens offense is just a rehashed version of the old single wing offense that was all the rage in the 20's, 30's, and 4o's, and didn't become dated until the early 50's when the wing-T formation. Back when I coached, there was still ONE team in the area that ran the wing T into the late 70's. North Quincy HS still ran it, and it was a tough thing to stop since you only saw it once a year. And as the DC it was my job to stop it.

I wish it was 20 years ago when I still had boxes of my old game plans. I remember I had a great one for that week that worked beautifully, but that just about all I got. Here's what I DO remember about the single wing.

a. In its base form you'd have 3 backs in the backfield, 2 TE's. With a direct snap to a QB who was both the primary runner and passer. With all kinds of backfield movement and counter off it, you generally could create numbers advantages to one side or another. You could also run options off of it, and almost EVERY pass comes off a play action pass. The Ravens do the same thing only using a TE and RB, and sometimes 2 TE to go along with Jackson in the backfield.

b. I recall that we determined that looking into the backfield was a fools errand, though reading the line proved to be a solid key. So that would be my first thing. Break down what they are doing and come up with some line keys that give the LB's their first direction.

c. Some of this is coming back. IIRC when they were in a run situation, which was most of the time, we lined up in a 6-2. For the Pats it would come out as a 4 DL and 2 ILB's with 2 OLB's on the LOS with 3 DB's. With the secondary guys we have vs the receivers they have we can play something like this effectively, especially if they use the 2 TE's in the backfield like they did when they played us. I don't see us playing a 3-4 front.

d. WIN the LOS. It's actually coming back now. I had my 6 down linemen play head on the G, T, and TE's. I had my the guys on the OT's play off the LOS a yard, like the Cowboys of the 70's did with their DL. Then based on the keys, formations and motions the LB's would call out prearranged gap numbers and the DLmen would twist or hit gaps and really screwed up their blocking schemes. Hard to explain in words.

At any rate it worked far better than I had a right to expect. It was a one week fix. We ran a pretty standard 5-2 Oakie which is what they called the 3-4 back then every other game. In those days the 5-2 and the Penn State 4-4 were what most H.S's ran. AND now I'm rambling. Sorry

Here's the thing. Bill knows what this is. I know Jackson threw for 5 TD, but he STILL threw for only about 160 yds in total. So this is ALL about stopping the run, and stopping it from a SINGLE WING offense.

Give Baltimore credit for creating the perfect offense for the talent they have on hand. But this is working BECAUSE it is new, just like Bears' 4-6 terrorized NFL teams for 2 years, and Walsh his West Coast offense for a while. Remember the run and shoot. Well you probably don't but it killed for a nanosecond as well. There was even a moment in time when the triple option was used and was effective.

I bet Bill has guys researching old archives for the kind of single wing offenses that MOST resemble what the Ravens are doing and WHAT defensive concepts were most effective in stopping them.

We saw what this defense did to the top offense in the NFL last Sunday. I don't care if the Ravens beat the rest of their schedule 50-0, I trust that Bill will have them ready to play a special game against them.

I won't mind if the Ravens have their hour in the sun. Let the media crown their asses in December, JUST like they did KC last season. I LIKE being the underdog for a change, and I'm sure Bill will let his team know how much everyone wants them out of contention every week from now on.

/THREAD
 
Step 1: Get HFA.
 
When are the people with the full 20-20 hindsight going to realize that HAD Jackson been chosen in the 2018 draft, he STILL would be sitting behind Tom Brady and no one would have heard of him except to laud him for the great job he'd been doing running the scout team.

Get over it. This sh!t is worse that the JG garbage I've had to endure on these pages. Timing is everything so I guess we'll have to learn to live with the QB we got. :rolleyes:

Now children just listen while Grandpa Ken schools you on some football history tonight.

What you are seeing from the Ravens isn't anything new at all. In fact it is very VERY old. The Ravens offense is just a rehashed version of the old single wing offense that was all the rage in the 20's, 30's, and 4o's, and didn't become dated until the early 50's when the wing-T formation. Back when I coached, there was still ONE team in the area that ran the wing T into the late 70's. North Quincy HS still ran it, and it was a tough thing to stop since you only saw it once a year. And as the DC it was my job to stop it.

I wish it was 20 years ago when I still had boxes of my old game plans. I remember I had a great one for that week that worked beautifully, but that just about all I got. Here's what I DO remember about the single wing.

a. In its base form you'd have 3 backs in the backfield, 2 TE's. With a direct snap to a QB who was both the primary runner and passer. With all kinds of backfield movement and counter off it, you generally could create numbers advantages to one side or another. You could also run options off of it, and almost EVERY pass comes off a play action pass. The Ravens do the same thing only using a TE and RB, and sometimes 2 TE to go along with Jackson in the backfield.

b. I recall that we determined that looking into the backfield was a fools errand, though reading the line proved to be a solid key. So that would be my first thing. Break down what they are doing and come up with some line keys that give the LB's their first direction.

c. Some of this is coming back. IIRC when they were in a run situation, which was most of the time, we lined up in a 6-2. For the Pats it would come out as a 4 DL and 2 ILB's with 2 OLB's on the LOS with 3 DB's. With the secondary guys we have vs the receivers they have we can play something like this effectively, especially if they use the 2 TE's in the backfield like they did when they played us. I don't see us playing a 3-4 front.

d. WIN the LOS. It's actually coming back now. I had my 6 down linemen play head on the G, T, and TE's. I had my the guys on the OT's play off the LOS a yard, like the Cowboys of the 70's did with their DL. Then based on the keys, formations and motions the LB's would call out prearranged gap numbers and the DLmen would twist or hit gaps and really screwed up their blocking schemes. Hard to explain in words.

At any rate it worked far better than I had a right to expect. It was a one week fix. We ran a pretty standard 5-2 Oakie which is what they called the 3-4 back then every other game. In those days the 5-2 and the Penn State 4-4 were what most H.S's ran. AND now I'm rambling. Sorry

Here's the thing. Bill knows what this is. I know Jackson threw for 5 TD, but he STILL threw for only about 160 yds in total. So this is ALL about stopping the run, and stopping it from a SINGLE WING offense.

Give Baltimore credit for creating the perfect offense for the talent they have on hand. But this is working BECAUSE it is new, just like Bears' 4-6 terrorized NFL teams for 2 years, and Walsh his West Coast offense for a while. Remember the run and shoot. Well you probably don't but it killed for a nanosecond as well. There was even a moment in time when the triple option was used and was effective.

I bet Bill has guys researching old archives for the kind of single wing offenses that MOST resemble what the Ravens are doing and WHAT defensive concepts were most effective in stopping them.

We saw what this defense did to the top offense in the NFL last Sunday. I don't care if the Ravens beat the rest of their schedule 50-0, I trust that Bill will have them ready to play a special game against them.

I won't mind if the Ravens have their hour in the sun. Let the media crown their asses in December, JUST like they did KC last season. I LIKE being the underdog for a change, and I'm sure Bill will let his team know how much everyone wants them out of contention every week from now on.

Epic post. Thanks.
 
What does that mean?

It means ‘end thread’. As in no further discussion required. The origin is computer code where similar syntax is used to end modules.
 
When are the people with the full 20-20 hindsight going to realize that HAD Jackson been chosen in the 2018 draft, he STILL would be sitting behind Tom Brady and no one would have heard of him except to laud him for the great job he'd been doing running the scout team.

Get over it. This sh!t is worse that the JG garbage I've had to endure on these pages. Timing is everything so I guess we'll have to learn to live with the QB we got. :rolleyes:

Now children just listen while Grandpa Ken schools you on some football history tonight.

What you are seeing from the Ravens isn't anything new at all. In fact it is very VERY old. The Ravens offense is just a rehashed version of the old single wing offense that was all the rage in the 20's, 30's, and 4o's, and didn't become dated until the early 50's when the wing-T formation. Back when I coached, there was still ONE team in the area that ran the wing T into the late 70's. North Quincy HS still ran it, and it was a tough thing to stop since you only saw it once a year. And as the DC it was my job to stop it.

I wish it was 20 years ago when I still had boxes of my old game plans. I remember I had a great one for that week that worked beautifully, but that just about all I got. Here's what I DO remember about the single wing.

a. In its base form you'd have 3 backs in the backfield, 2 TE's. With a direct snap to a QB who was both the primary runner and passer. With all kinds of backfield movement and counter off it, you generally could create numbers advantages to one side or another. You could also run options off of it, and almost EVERY pass comes off a play action pass. The Ravens do the same thing only using a TE and RB, and sometimes 2 TE to go along with Jackson in the backfield.

b. I recall that we determined that looking into the backfield was a fools errand, though reading the line proved to be a solid key. So that would be my first thing. Break down what they are doing and come up with some line keys that give the LB's their first direction.

c. Some of this is coming back. IIRC when they were in a run situation, which was most of the time, we lined up in a 6-2. For the Pats it would come out as a 4 DL and 2 ILB's with 2 OLB's on the LOS with 3 DB's. With the secondary guys we have vs the receivers they have we can play something like this effectively, especially if they use the 2 TE's in the backfield like they did when they played us. I don't see us playing a 3-4 front.

d. WIN the LOS. It's actually coming back now. I had my 6 down linemen play head on the G, T, and TE's. I had my the guys on the OT's play off the LOS a yard, like the Cowboys of the 70's did with their DL. Then based on the keys, formations and motions the LB's would call out prearranged gap numbers and the DLmen would twist or hit gaps and really screwed up their blocking schemes. Hard to explain in words.

At any rate it worked far better than I had a right to expect. It was a one week fix. We ran a pretty standard 5-2 Oakie which is what they called the 3-4 back then every other game. In those days the 5-2 and the Penn State 4-4 were what most H.S's ran. AND now I'm rambling. Sorry

Here's the thing. Bill knows what this is. I know Jackson threw for 5 TD, but he STILL threw for only about 160 yds in total. So this is ALL about stopping the run, and stopping it from a SINGLE WING offense.

Give Baltimore credit for creating the perfect offense for the talent they have on hand. But this is working BECAUSE it is new, just like Bears' 4-6 terrorized NFL teams for 2 years, and Walsh his West Coast offense for a while. Remember the run and shoot. Well you probably don't but it killed for a nanosecond as well. There was even a moment in time when the triple option was used and was effective.

I bet Bill has guys researching old archives for the kind of single wing offenses that MOST resemble what the Ravens are doing and WHAT defensive concepts were most effective in stopping them.

We saw what this defense did to the top offense in the NFL last Sunday. I don't care if the Ravens beat the rest of their schedule 50-0, I trust that Bill will have them ready to play a special game against them.

I won't mind if the Ravens have their hour in the sun. Let the media crown their asses in December, JUST like they did KC last season. I LIKE being the underdog for a change, and I'm sure Bill will let his team know how much everyone wants them out of contention every week from now on.
Great post. you are bringing back memories THE WIDE TACKLE 6!!! If your DTs don’t get hooked it’s a dominant run d.
Played in when I was in high school.
I think the most fun i ever had playing football was pop Warner at 12 years old. My dad was the coach. We played a 4-4 with dL head up on OG and OT and a lb stacked behind them. Before the snap the lb would walk up and tap his dL on the butt telling him which gap to shoot at the lb blitzed the other. We didn’t get scored in all year. Next year they banned that d.
 
The 49ers worry me. I’m just rooting for any team to take them down, since that matchup is so brutal. They don’t rely on their receivers to open up their offense, so the Patriots entire defensive strength would be neutralized; they have a game changing tight end (Gilmore would probably try to cover him, though that might not work), a great fullback, and run the ball extremely well. Kyle Shanahan is a really, really good coach. Belichick defenses tend to struggle against the Shanahan-Kubiak zone blocking scheme because it often breaks down into a battle of fundamental skills between players rather than a scheming match between coaches, kind of like RPOs. And that defense would just frustrate the Patriots offense by winning at all three levels, beginning with a great interior pass rush that’s very disruptive. Barring injuries, I really have trouble envisioning how these Patriots could beat these 49ers. They matchup so much better with a team like the Saints, Seahawks, Vikings or Packers.
This. A team like the Saints or Packers would be so easy for the Patriots defense to shut down, and they have no where near the front 4 that the 49ers have so Brady would have way more time. Hell, the Saints are literally Thomas and Kamara + a little Cook

Have the offense healthy in the playoffs and I don’t see anyone beating the Patriots, but damn would it be easier playing one of the 4 NFC teams you mentioned in the Super Bowl
 
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