How Belichick lost his place in posterity

[Biffins]

I don't know where you get these figures from but it's all hearsay. What we know is Tom wanted to play until 45. Bill had him through 42. Those are facts and where the roads truly crossed. And as I said we should of given whatever Brady wanted doesn't mean I'm blind to Bill's position.

Those free agent moves were needed with it without TB12 and had we drafted a good QB I don't think we'd be discussing them the same way. Unfortunately we let Brady walk and messed up replacing him 0-2, 0-3 if you count Cam too. It was a rough couple years.

The figures are not hearsay. Here you go. See below. NBC source says Brady wanted 2 years at $50m and never got it. So that's your source. And last deal Pats signed was effectively a 1 year at $23m in 2019 (with 2020 and 2021 voidable). So instead of giving him 2 years at $50m they gave him 1 year at $23m and he signed that and played that and left. Pior to that Brady had never played the final year of any contract so Pats basically let him go.

Tom Brady clears the air why he didn't re-sign with Patriots after making surprising exit in 2020 offseason

Brady moved on from New England in the 2020 offseason

www.cbssports.com

According to NBC Sports Boston, Brady wanted a two-year, $50 million commitment from the Patriots in 2019 and when that never came, that was likely when he made the decision to leave. In the end, Brady did get the contract he wanted, but he got it from the Buccaneers instead of the Patriots.

Brady got a two-year extension from the Patriots, but that deal was misleading. It slightly upped his salary for the 2019 season, but the final two years (2020, 2021) were voidable so that the Patriots could spread out his cap hit.

Tom Brady agrees to contract extension with Patriots

For his 42nd birthday, Tom Brady received a special gift from the New England Patriots: a long-awaited contract extension.The future Hall of Fame quarterback agreed to terms on a two-year extension with New England on Sunday.

www.nfl.com

The future Hall of Fame quarterback agreed to terms on a two-year, $70 million contract extension with New England on Sunday, a source told NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport. The deal raises Brady's 2019 salary from $15 million to $23 million. Brady is then scheduled to make $30 million in 2020 and $32 million in 2021

 

[Biffins]

I have a very low tolerance for ********. Stop insulting my intelligence by saying water is not wet.

This discussion is mostly about BB's record WITHOUT Brady. I would say your post which basically points to Belichick's success WITH Brady is superfluous, and was a digression. So pardon my jibe when you were being sly yourself.

 

[signbabybrady]

The figures are not hearsay. Here you go. See below. NBC source says Brady wanted 2 years at $50m and never got it. So that's your source. And last deal Pats signed was effectively a 1 year at $23m in 2019 (with 2020 and 2021 voidable). So instead of giving him 2 years at $50m they gave him 1 year at $23m and he signed that and played that and left. Pior to that Brady had never played the final year of any contract so Pats basically let him go.

Tom Brady clears the air why he didn't re-sign with Patriots after making surprising exit in 2020 offseason

Brady moved on from New England in the 2020 offseason

www.cbssports.com

According to NBC Sports Boston, Brady wanted a two-year, $50 million commitment from the Patriots in 2019 and when that never came, that was likely when he made the decision to leave. In the end, Brady did get the contract he wanted, but he got it from the Buccaneers instead of the Patriots.

Brady got a two-year extension from the Patriots, but that deal was misleading. It slightly upped his salary for the 2019 season, but the final two years (2020, 2021) were voidable so that the Patriots could spread out his cap hit.

Tom Brady agrees to contract extension with Patriots

For his 42nd birthday, Tom Brady received a special gift from the New England Patriots: a long-awaited contract extension.The future Hall of Fame quarterback agreed to terms on a two-year extension with New England on Sunday.

www.nfl.com

The future Hall of Fame quarterback agreed to terms on a two-year, $70 million contract extension with New England on Sunday, a source told NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport. The deal raises Brady's 2019 salary from $15 million to $23 million. Brady is then scheduled to make $30 million in 2020 and $32 million in 2021

First it says according to NBC Sports Boston so like I said hearsay but also funny how you ignore the part where it says "that was likely when he made the decision" lol you're making my point.

 

[Tunescribe]

It worked out well for Tom. But it didn't work out well for us Pats fans. And that's the bitterness. And Belichick's judgment is to blame. That's it.

I'd have thought the statute of limitations on your personal pity party expired some time ago. Your are in a very tiny minority of Patriots fans harboring "bitterness" toward Bill Belichick.

 

[Biffins]

I'd have thought the statute of limitations on your personal pity party expired some time ago. Your are in a very tiny minority of Patriots fans harboring "bitterness" toward Bill Belichick.

Yeah right. Why don't you watch Episode 9 of The Dynasty again. Watch us get creamed in Super Bowl LII again. Watch Tom throw 500+ yards while our defense gets destroyed. Watch Kraft confirm it was a personal issue that BB had with Butler and nothing to do with his play. Watch Amendola say he's STILL upset about why Butler was not put in the game. I'm not the only one.

Amendola: "the kid down at Foxboro high could have told ya you don’t get rid of Tom Brady"

 

[signbabybrady]

Yeah right. Why don't you watch Episode 9 of The Dynasty again. Watch us get creamed in Super Bowl LII again. Watch Tom throw 500+ yards while our defense gets destroyed. Watch Kraft confirm it was a personal issue that BB had with Butler and nothing to do with his play. Watch Amendola say he's STILL upset about why Butler was not put in the game. I'm not the only one.

Amendola: "the kid down at Foxboro high could have told ya you don’t get rid of Tom Brady"

Unless you have sadomasochists tendencies I don't suggest watching that or the 07 episode more than once if even that.

 

[Tunescribe]

Yeah right. Why don't you watch Episode 9 of The Dynasty again. Watch us get creamed in Super Bowl LII again. Watch Tom throw 500+ yards while our defense gets destroyed. Watch Kraft confirm it was a personal issue that BB had with Butler and nothing to do with his play. Watch Amendola say he's STILL upset about why Butler was not put in the game. I'm not the only one.

Amendola has an axe to grind against BB and no inside info on the Butler benching. Kraft confirmed nothing. We don't know his definition of "personal issue" and we have nothing definitive from either Belichick or Butler. I've said this at least a half-dozen times: there is no guarantee Butler would have made a difference in the soft zone Patricia was running. Maybe he would have enabled victory. Maybe BB messed up, but until we get his side of the story his GOAT status earns the benefit of a doubt.

You know, I occasionally see strident sentiments like yours from guys who never played football or who lack personal experience in athletics/team sports. They lack practical understanding of how things work, of the relationship dynamics between teammates and between players and coaches. Your black-and-white judgments from afar suggest as much.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I don't know where you get these figures from but it's all hearsay. What we know is Tom wanted to play until 45. Bill had him through 42. Those are facts and where the roads truly crossed. And as I said we should of given whatever Brady wanted doesn't mean I'm blind to Bill's position.

Those free agent moves were needed with it without TB12 and had we drafted a good QB I don't think we'd be discussing them the same way. Unfortunately we let Brady walk and messed up replacing him 0-2, 0-3 if you count Cam too. It was a rough couple years.

I'm not sure where they're coming from either, Curran's on record saying he offered Tom 15 mill.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Amendola has an axe to grind against BB and no inside info on the Butler benching. Kraft confirmed nothing. We don't know his definition of "personal issue" and we have nothing definitive from either Belichick or Butler. I've said this at least a half-dozen times: there is no guarantee Butler would have made a difference in the soft zone Patricia was running. Maybe he would have enabled victory. Maybe BB messed up, but until we get his side of the story his GOAT status earns the benefit of a doubt.

You know, I occasionally see strident sentiments like yours from guys who never played football or who lack personal experience in athletics/team sports. They lack practical understanding of how things work, of the relationship dynamics between teammates and between players and coaches. Your condemnatory judgments from afar suggest as much.

Will you stop with your intelligent, well thought out rational responses. they don't belong here.

 

[signbabybrady]

I'm not sure where they're coming from either, Curran's on record saying he offered Tom 15 mill.

I mean I've seen all the rumors and I don't mean to just ignore them but at the end of the day it was about age not money. Brady rightfully so was playing until 45. BB had him locked up through age 42. It is what it is.

 

[PATSNUTme]

This discussion is mostly about BB's record WITHOUT Brady. I would say your post which basically points to Belichick's success WITH Brady is superfluous, and was a digression. So pardon my jibe when you were being sly yourself.

No slyness on my part, I'm very direct. Your thread title and the use of meaningless (yes, they are meaningless) stats shows your agenda.
We used to have separate forum where threads like this could be sent.

Unfortunately, I spent minutes on this thread that I could have used in a more productive endeavor, like staring at the ceiling. That is on me for engaging in nonsense.
This is where it ends.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Noone's forcing you to read or respond to this thread.

And I believe that discussions such as these, and thousands others in similar forums, online and in-person, will collectively determine BB and Brady's legacy, now that their careers just ended. Hence I believe it's a contribution to that effect.

I didn't realize that you are helping to define Brady's legacy. Like some sort of modern day peoples poet, sacrificing all to set the truth free? Now I understand.

 

[1960Pats]

I haven't. other than the initial post and a cheeky reply to Ian, see any discussion in the thread by me? **** no.

People want to keep kicking themselves in the nuts over and over about the same topic? Be my guest.

And when we see another ******** thread about the same ****ing thing, I will echo the same sentiments. Don't like my post, i offer the same response: don't read it.

There's an old song that describes what's going on here...

 

[1960Pats]

Tom never had a bad season. Never. All the way till he stopped playing.

Yes it was stupid not to extend him and lock him up. Yes he asked for a 2 year extension going into his last year (so would be 3 years including the last year) and the team offered 1 year. And yes the numbers about $23m for 1 year extension, were leaked. So you can say he wanted $25m per year for 2 years and we offered $23m for 1 year. We were nickle and diming. It's ridiculous. He never had a bad season. Saving $2m? seriously.

And what amazing stuff did BB do with the $4m he nickle and dimed and saved. Frickin $50m deal for Jonnu Smith?!?!?! This is the genius deal BB kicked Old Man Brady out for and didn't want to risk another year with him? $24m for Jalen MIlls? what a steal. 2 years for $26m Agholor?!?! 2 year for $23m for old man McCourty?

BB nickled and dimed the greatest player ever, tried to offer him $2m less per year and 1 year instead of 2 years which was ridiculous. And he compounded his stupidity with wasting those savings on monumentally horrible FA signings which doomed our next 4 seasons.

According to Kraft, he told Bill that he wasn't going to trade Brady. So Bill worked it so that Tom would leave instead. And it worked to perfection... for Brady and Tampa Bay.

 

[signbabybrady]

According to Kraft, he told Bill that he wasn't going to trade Brady. So Bill worked it so that Tom would leave instead. And it worked to perfection... for Brady and Tampa Bay.

You have it backwards. Kraft told Tom that if he wanted it he would trade him. Tom Stayed and won another SB.

 

[Wozzy]

Au contraire, It's the "free" in free agent that's confusing you.

Tom should never have been allowed to be a free agent. Negotiations between the teams in the last 2 years broke down. He wanted a two year extension and Belichick refused to give it, arguing that Tom's age doesn't warrant it. Belichick was clearly in the wrong as the level of Tom's play certainly did merit it and he played at an extremely high level for 4 more years in the NFL.

You're emotional about, and you let it cloud your reason and rational thinking. Belichick let Tom leave and he was an idiot for doing so and eventually lost his job for it. Keeping Tom around for a rebuild would have been smart, and would likely have led to 3 more winning seasons, more wins, more trips to the playoffs, and likely more playoff wins, all of which ANY team would want. Instead Belichick's moron plan for a reboot, and to burnish his legacy independent of Tom , spectacularly failed.

Tom specifically negotiated free agency into his last extension. His wife wanted to live in Miami, which is why he tried to manipulate the Dolphins into acquiring him a year prior. Brian Flores wouldn’t get on the owners yacht so it fell apart.

You pretending to know how BB felt about Tom’s age and contract is fairy dust… total imagination. According to both Kraft and BB the Pats offered Tom a deal in 2020 and he decided to move on.

I said Tom leaving and the team deciding to rebuild was the right thing to do before Tom even announced his plans to leave NE. Emotion played no part in it, the Patriots had maxed out their salary cap and resources. The run was over, I recognized it before it even happened.

Meanwhile the mods here had to build you Brady zealots your own little TB12 shrine next door because you were so emotional you couldn’t handle it. Hell… you’re still here whining about a player who retired over a year ago.

Stop being so emotional and bumping your own thread. In a decade nobody is going to say BB lost his place in history, he’ll still be the most successful coach until someone beats his records and even then will be considered among the greatest of all time.

It’s a team game, it took all of them to win those rings… players and coaches.

 

[Wozzy]

The team that ended the year before TB arrived was not the same as when TB played his first game for Tampa. There were a few very good players on the team once Tom got there.

I already discussed this above, and you saying there were no good players on the #1 passing team in the NFL two years running before Tom got there and #1 run stopping defense is outright foolish.

 

[sb1]

I suppose compared to the "talent" on the Patriots the Bucs were a super team.

But compared to decent teams no they were not. Super teams aren't 7-9.

Yeah Brady elevated them to championship level pretty much by himself. And don't forget he also brought AB Gronk and Fournette along with him. All 3 of them played big roles in that championship run. Doubtful they all sign there if Brady wasn't there.

 

[Wozzy]

I suppose compared to the "talent" on the Patriots the Bucs were a super team.

But compared to decent teams no they were not. Super teams aren't 7-9.

Yeah Brady elevated them to championship level pretty much by himself. And don't forget he also brought AB Gronk and Fournette along with him. All 3 of them played big roles in that championship run. Doubtful they all sign there if Brady wasn't there.

Any bad QB can take an otherwise good roster and make it look worse. You can’t win with bad QB play.

The 49ers were 1-10 with Hoyer/Beathard until they traded for JimmyG… he went 5-0 and doubled their offensive points per game with the same exact roster.

Brissett is no world beater, but he’s way better than Mac because he doesn’t turn the ball over.

Jameis Winston posted a historic number of turnovers in 2019. He also led the NFL in passing yards and TD’s…. the turnovers mattered more to the overall team record.

Matt Stafford couldn’t win a single playoff game for 12 years in Detroit, he goes to the Rams and instantly wins a Super Bowl.

Team is more important than any one player and QB’s are a part of team… not apart from team.

Tom was the best on the best teams, that’s why they were successful at an unprecedented level in pro football history.

 

[sb1]

Any bad QB can take an otherwise good roster and make it look worse. You can’t win with bad QB play.

The 49ers were 1-10 with Hoyer/Beathard until they traded for JimmyG… he went 5-0 and doubled their offensive points per game with the same exact roster.

Brissett is no world beater, but he’s way better than Mac because he doesn’t turn the ball over.

Jameis Winston posted a historic number of turnovers in 2019. He also led the NFL in passing yards and TD’s…. the turnovers mattered more to the overall team record.

Matt Stafford couldn’t win a single playoff game for 12 years in Detroit, he goes to the Rams and instantly wins a Super Bowl.

Team is more important than any one player and QB’s are a part of team… not apart from team.

Tom was the best on the best teams, that’s why they were successful at an unprecedented level in pro football history.

People talk like Brady went to a "stacked" team. The Bucs were absolutely not "stacked" or a "superteam" that made Tom win a SB. They were what their record said they were... a 7 win team. Adding Tom was why they won it all.