How Belichick lost his place in posterity

[Clonamery]

593 replies in this stupid f*cking thread started by a hater known for his dogshit content. Oy Vey.

I don't know if he is a hater as he loves him some him some Tom Brady as much as the ladies but I know he's not a Pats Fan.

 

[Calhoun44]

It’s always a team sport… always.

You just think pointing out that it’s a team sport is somehow demeaning to Brady because you’re a fanboy who believes unicorns are real.

If this dumb theory that you and the other zealots here are pushing was accurate, if Tom was wholly responsible for the Patriots success and he was so much better than Manning, Brees, Rogers, Staffords, Ben Rapistburger and all of his peers… he would have closer to 23 rings than 7.

It’s silly fanboy nonsense.

Your patience is admirable.

 

[Wozzy]

The the 12-20 Bucs were not a “superteam.” Thank you for coming around finally.

I said they were the best team without a QB back then. I said this after 2019 ended and before Tom announced his intentions.

I also said after Tom signed with Tampa they were instantly the Super Bowl favorites… and I have receipts to prove all of this. So you’re just talking to hear yourself talk at this point.

Explain my question above, if Tom Brady’s magical powers were responsible for everything, if he was so much more amazing than all of his QB peers… what happened those 16 years he didn’t win a ring?

Was his QB magic on the fritz?

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Damn he looks old and a little depressed.

...hasn't he always?

 

[Biffins]

He was a free agent, it’s the “free” in free agent that’s confusing you.

Tom Brady chose to take less money from 2014 on, contracts are a two way street. He wasn’t a slave, and he was clearly working in tandem with the Patriots to game the salary cap. They went to 4 Super Bowls and won 3 of them.

You’re emotional, you let it cloud your reason and rationale thinking. Tom left, he was smart to leave. Sticking around for a rebuild at 43 would have been dumb, especially with the wife hassling him to move them to Florida.

Au contraire, It's the "free" in free agent that's confusing you.

Tom should never have been allowed to be a free agent. Negotiations between the teams in the last 2 years broke down. He wanted a two year extension and Belichick refused to give it, arguing that Tom's age doesn't warrant it. Belichick was clearly in the wrong as the level of Tom's play certainly did merit it and he played at an extremely high level for 4 more years in the NFL.

You're emotional about, and you let it cloud your reason and rational thinking. Belichick let Tom leave and he was an idiot for doing so and eventually lost his job for it. Keeping Tom around for a rebuild would have been smart, and would likely have led to 3 more winning seasons, more wins, more trips to the playoffs, and likely more playoff wins, all of which ANY team would want. Instead Belichick's moron plan for a reboot, and to burnish his legacy independent of Tom , spectacularly failed.

 

[Biffins]

Please stop this nonsense once and for all. The bottom line was that Brady was given choices he didn't like but they WERE choices, including stay or go. When he left both parties concluded they were serving their respective interests. The Patriots made a mistake that became obvious in hindsight. This has been hashed over enough.

Great. So we agree.

All I am pointing out that Belichick (the GM and HC) made a glaring and spectacularly stupid mistake, same as you just agreed with. And BTW this spectacular folly was quite obvious to a lot of us and there are reams and reams of threads here talking about this when Tom was not extended going into his last season. But I am glad that to the rest of the Patriots community Belichick's imbecility is now obvious in hindsight.

 

[Biffins]

Don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining. This has been going on since Tom won #7 in Tampa.
Because we lost internet for 4 days,I rewatched all 6 SB season during that time. Every single game I saw BB make crucial coaching decisions that contributed to winning those 6 SB wins. I also saw Tom make bonehead throws that made the games closer than they had to be. I also saw Tom lead the team to those victories.
They are both the Greatest of All Time. So let's stop the silly comparisons based of stupid stats.

Sorry

Noone said BB didn't contribute to those wins. Or other regular wins. In fact Tom's win % without BB is lower, drops from 77% to 65%, so clearly BB was not useless and did have some positive impact. I included that in the original post and said as much.

 

[Biffins]

No revisionist history, Tom insisted on the no franchise tag prior to agreeing to play out his last season. That was his choice. Clearly he thought the team might still use that and he didn't want it, so that would make it his choice.

Yeah since he wanted a 2 year extension at $25m per year and the team offered 1 year only at $23m. So he then rejected that extension. That was clearly the team's choice to not give a 2 year extension. It was clearly the team's choice to stupidly determine he was a risk with a 2 year contract. It was clearly the team's choice to offer way below market and low-ball. And by team I mean BB, the GM. And he was left to rue his stupidity.

 

[signbabybrady]

Yeah since he wanted a 2 year extension at $25m per year and the team offered 1 year only at $21m. So he then rejected that extension. That was clearly the team's choice to not give a 2 year extension. It was clearly the team's choice to stupidly determine he was a risk with a 2 year contract. It was clearly the team's choice to offer way below market and low-ball. And by team I mean BB, the GM. And he was left to rue his stupidity.

Whatever he wanted we should have given it to him.

But I don't think any of your numbers or years are right. And he only gave us a chance to do it up until a year early by the time the season ended he never negotiated again.

But without getting into dollars he wanted a 3 year extension and when and how he negotiated is not really clear. What we know as fact is he wanted to play until he was 45 and we had him signed until he was 42.

Had we just locked him up until 45 I think the money would have been worked out. The problem is he tried to get this when he was 40 and BB didn't cave and then when he was 41 I think it still could of been worked out but when it didn't and he was about to turn 42 he insisted on the no franchise clause and it was over he played out his last year and hado already chose to leave. We all hoped and thought they would negotiate again but it never happened and he instead went to Krafts house and told him what his choice was and they called and informed Bill.

Anything else imo falls under woulda/coulda/shoulda. It really is dumb after ATL he should have been given whatever he asked for. Really after Sea. But everyone also likes to ignore that we had him locked up through age 42 and why give some one who would be 43 anything earlier than you have to it's kind of unprecedented and a fairly reasonable way to play it especially before the no franchise clause was added.

We really shouldn't have given that away and if it had to play out differently in August at least we'd have some leverage but coming off the Rams win no one was ready to get ugly and I think the no franchise clause and playing it out was the only thing that worked for all 3 BB, RKK, and TB12. Bill wasn't giving what TB wanted but TB wasn't ready to blow it up and Kraft couldn't take sides and played the middle like he typically does.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Yeah since he wanted a 2 year extension at $25m per year and the team offered 1 year only at $21m. So he then rejected that extension. That was clearly the team's choice to not give a 2 year extension. It was clearly the team's choice to stupidly determine he was a risk with a 2 year contract. It was clearly the team's choice to offer way below market and low-ball. And by team I mean BB, the GM. And he was left to rue his stupidity.

If you haven't been paying attention RKK had and continues to have a lot to say about spending money. The reality is that BB, RKK AND TB12 all had roles in Brady's decision to leave the Patriots. Based on the state of the Patriots roster, the salary cap and TB12's age, leaving was the right decision for all. Brady did well, so far the BB and RKK not so much. How long is this crap going to waste everyone's time and the sites bandwidth?

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I said they were the best team without a QB back then. I said this after 2019 ended and before Tom announced his intentions.

I also said after Tom signed with Tampa they were instantly the Super Bowl favorites… and I have receipts to prove all of this. So you’re just talking to hear yourself talk at this point.

Explain my question above, if Tom Brady’s magical powers were responsible for everything, if he was so much more amazing than all of his QB peers… what happened those 16 years he didn’t win a ring?

Was his QB magic on the fritz?

The team that ended the year before TB arrived was not the same as when TB played his first game for Tampa. There were a few very good players on the team once Tom got there.

 

[Tunescribe]

Great. So we agree.

All I am pointing out that Belichick (the GM and HC) made a glaring and spectacularly stupid mistake, same as you just agreed with. And BTW this spectacular folly was quite obvious to a lot of us and there are reams and reams of threads here talking about this when Tom was not extended going into his last season. But I am glad that to the rest of the Patriots community Belichick's imbecility is now obvious in hindsight.

Is the righteous pleasure you get out of pummeling this dead horse really worth it? No, there's a big difference between a mistake becoming obvious in hindsight and "spectacularly stupid imbecility." At the time it happened, Belichick, Kraft and a lot of other people felt it was a proper move under the circumstances and certain factors supported that. I've always felt Brady should have ended his career a Patriot. They didn't do right by him, but the fact remains he WAS complicit, albeit to a minor degree, in what happened. It worked out well for Tom, so perhaps you can feel good about that that vs. bashing the coach he credits with making him the player he was.

 

[Biffins]

Whatever he wanted we should have given it to him.

But I don't think any of your numbers or years are right. And he only gave us a chance to do it up until a year early by the time the season ended he never negotiated again.

But without getting into dollars he wanted a 3 year extension and when and how he negotiated is not really clear. What we know as fact is he wanted to play until he was 45 and we had him signed until he was 42.

Had we just locked him up until 45 I think the money would have been worked out. The problem is he tried to get this when he was 40 and BB didn't cave and then when he was 41 I think it still could of been worked out but when it didn't and he was about to turn 42 he insisted on the no franchise clause and it was over he played out his last year and hado already chose to leave. We all hoped and thought they would negotiate again but it never happened and he instead went to Krafts house and told him what his choice was and they called and informed Bill.

Anything else imo falls under woulda/coulda/shoulda. It really is dumb after ATL he should have been given whatever he asked for. Really after Sea. But everyone also likes to ignore that we had him locked up through age 42 and why give some one who would be 43 anything earlier than you have to it's kind of unprecedented and a fairly reasonable way to play it especially before the no franchise clause was added.

We really shouldn't have given that away and if it had to play out differently in August at least we'd have some leverage but coming off the Rams win no one was ready to get ugly and I think the no franchise clause and playing it out was the only thing that worked for all 3 BB, RKK, and TB12. Bill wasn't giving what TB wanted but TB wasn't ready to blow it up and Kraft couldn't take sides and played the middle like he typically does.

Tom never had a bad season. Never. All the way till he stopped playing.

Yes it was stupid not to extend him and lock him up. Yes he asked for a 2 year extension going into his last year (so would be 3 years including the last year) and the team offered 1 year. And yes the numbers about $23m for 1 year extension, were leaked. So you can say he wanted $25m per year for 2 years and we offered $23m for 1 year. We were nickle and diming. It's ridiculous. He never had a bad season. Saving $2m? seriously.

And what amazing stuff did BB do with the $4m he nickle and dimed and saved. Frickin $50m deal for Jonnu Smith?!?!?! This is the genius deal BB kicked Old Man Brady out for and didn't want to risk another year with him? $24m for Jalen MIlls? what a steal. 2 years for $26m Agholor?!?! 2 year for $23m for old man McCourty?

BB nickled and dimed the greatest player ever, tried to offer him $2m less per year and 1 year instead of 2 years which was ridiculous. And he compounded his stupidity with wasting those savings on monumentally horrible FA signings which doomed our next 4 seasons.

 

[Biffins]

If you haven't been paying attention RKK had and continues to have a lot to say about spending money. The reality is that BB, RKK AND TB12 all had roles in Brady's decision to leave the Patriots. Based on the state of the Patriots roster, the salary cap and TB12's age, leaving was the right decision for all. Brady did well, so far the BB and RKK not so much. How long is this crap going to waste everyone's time and the sites bandwidth?

Noone's forcing you to read or respond to this thread.

And I believe that discussions such as these, and thousands others in similar forums, online and in-person, will collectively determine BB and Brady's legacy, now that their careers just ended. Hence I believe it's a contribution to that effect.

 

[signbabybrady]

Tom never had a bad season. Never. All the way till he stopped playing.

Yes it was stupid not to extend him and lock him up. Yes he asked for a 2 year extension going into his last year (so would be 3 years including the last year) and the team offered 1 year. And yes the numbers about $21m for 1 year extension, were leaked. So you can say he wanted $25m per year for 2 years and we offered $21m for 1 year. We were nickle and diming. It's ridiculous. He never had a bad season. Saving $4m? seriously.

And what amazing stuff did BB do with the $4m he nickle and dimed and saved. Frickin $50m deal for Jonnu Smith?!?!?! This is the genius deal BB kicked Old Man Brady out for and didn't want to risk another year with him? $24m for Jalen MIlls? what a steal. 2 years for $26m Agholor?!?! 2 year for $23m for old man McCourty?

BB nickled and dimed the greatest player ever, tried to offer him $4m less per year and 1 year instead of 2 years which was ridiculous. And he compounded his stupidity with wasting those savings on monumentally horrible FA signings which doomed our next 4 seasons.

I don't know where you get these figures from but it's all hearsay. What we know is Tom wanted to play until 45. Bill had him through 42. Those are facts and where the roads truly crossed. And as I said we should of given whatever Brady wanted doesn't mean I'm blind to Bill's position.

Those free agent moves were needed with it without TB12 and had we drafted a good QB I don't think we'd be discussing them the same way. Unfortunately we let Brady walk and messed up replacing him 0-2, 0-3 if you count Cam too. It was a rough couple years.

 

[Biffins]

Whatever he wanted we should have given it to him.

But I don't think any of your numbers or years are right. And he only gave us a chance to do it up until a year early by the time the season ended he never negotiated again.

But without getting into dollars he wanted a 3 year extension and when and how he negotiated is not really clear. What we know as fact is he wanted to play until he was 45 and we had him signed until he was 42.

Had we just locked him up until 45 I think the money would have been worked out. The problem is he tried to get this when he was 40 and BB didn't cave and then when he was 41 I think it still could of been worked out but when it didn't and he was about to turn 42 he insisted on the no franchise clause and it was over he played out his last year and hado already chose to leave. We all hoped and thought they would negotiate again but it never happened and he instead went to Krafts house and told him what his choice was and they called and informed Bill.

Anything else imo falls under woulda/coulda/shoulda. It really is dumb after ATL he should have been given whatever he asked for. Really after Sea. But everyone also likes to ignore that we had him locked up through age 42 and why give some one who would be 43 anything earlier than you have to it's kind of unprecedented and a fairly reasonable way to play it especially before the no franchise clause was added.

We really shouldn't have given that away and if it had to play out differently in August at least we'd have some leverage but coming off the Rams win no one was ready to get ugly and I think the no franchise clause and playing it out was the only thing that worked for all 3 BB, RKK, and TB12. Bill wasn't giving what TB wanted but TB wasn't ready to blow it up and Kraft couldn't take sides and played the middle like he typically does.

“We worked for Bill, but we played for Tom.” Danny Amendola

And Belichick chose not to extend him for $2m less per year and an added year. Come on!

 

[Biffins]

Is the righteous pleasure you get out of pummeling this dead horse really worth it? No, there's a big difference between a mistake becoming obvious in hindsight and "spectacularly stupid imbecility." At the time it happened, Belichick, Kraft and a lot of other people felt it was a proper move under the circumstances and certain factors supported that. I've always felt Brady should have ended his career a Patriot. They didn't do right by him, but the fact remains he WAS complicit, albeit to a minor degree, in what happened. It worked out well for Tom, so perhaps you can feel good about that that vs. bashing the coach he credits with making him the player he was.

It worked out well for Tom. But it didn't work out well for us Pats fans. And that's the bitterness. And Belichick's judgment is to blame. That's it.

 

[signbabybrady]

Noone's forcing you to read or respond to this thread.

And I believe that discussions such as these, and thousands others in similar forums, online and in-person, will collectively determine BB and Brady's legacy, now that their careers just ended. Hence I believe it's a contribution to that effect.

I agree with the first parts no one has to read anything and this will be discussed over and over on here, podcasts, radio, and wherever else. However that last part is laughable no matter how many times these things are rehashed their legacies are long stamped and they are both the best to do it at their positions.

They both lapped the field and they both are pretty much untouchable at least until Mahomes and Reid get a few more. Impressive on them that they so quickly got in the conversation and we'll see if they can catch up but if they don't it likely will be very long time before we see someone else get close. If they 3peat things could get interesting but if we're being honest they still have a ways to go. Reid is a little closer to Bill but he's also closer to his end than Mahomes is either way it will be fun to see if they can do it.

 

[signbabybrady]

“We worked for Bill, but we played for Tom.” Danny Amendola

And Belichick chose not to extend him for $4m less per year. Come on!

"He left us at the alter" - Slater and Jules

Brady chose to leave it's a fact deal with it. Just as I can admit Bill should have given Brady whatever he could to avoid it.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Noone said BB didn't contribute to those wins. Or other regular wins. In fact Tom's win % without BB is lower, drops from 77% to 65%, so clearly BB was not useless and did have some positive impact. I included that in the original post and said as much.

I have a very low tolerance for ********. Stop insulting my intelligence by saying water is not wet.