For everyone that knows more than JMD

[Pats2000]

We decided not to accept Mac on the grounds that his arm is weak and he is of slow foot.

So you're openly admitting you don't watch any game film then, got you.

 

[203Pat]

Maybe because crazy things happen in football games when turnovers happen and momentum swings. I was thinking the same thing during the game, let the kid try some reps like it's practice, but weve seen teams come back from deficits like that in a quarter, especially with a guy who can sling the ball 50 yards off his back foot.

BB took his win and chose to do that stuff in practice. I'm ok with that after the game.

I agree crazy things happen but we kicked the field goal with what? Just over 2 minutes left? Even if Mac threw a pick 6 we still would have the game in hand and be able to burn down most if not all of the clock when we got the ball back. I'm not saying that this was some major coaching blunder but I don't know how many chances Mac will have to get a few live red zone reps in like that with the game in hand.

 

[Simpelton]

So you're openly admitting you don't watch any game film then, got you.

99% sure Triumph was joking

 

[Simpelton]

I agree crazy things happen but we kicked the field goal with what? Just over 2 minutes left? Even if Mac threw a pick 6 we still would have the game in hand and be able to burn down most if not all of the clock when we got the ball back. I'm not saying that this was some major coaching blunder but I don't know how many chances Mac will have to get a few live red zone reps in like that with the game in hand.

I hear what you're saying but right now 2 games in we come away with very positive impressions of Mac because of his impressive mastery of the fine art of not giving the ball away. The guy was a bit TO prone in college so for hi to come up in his first 2 games and deliver 0 picks in his first 2 games ever at the NFL level is impressive. They're basically rebuilding the guy to an extent to focus on high percentage plays and ball conttrol, and using him as a field leader in the meantime.

Which I will say, Mac looks like 3 year veteran as a field leader. Combine that with showing some skill at making possession plays and even a couple successful scrambles and I really like the direction they seem to be taking him. The arm is still there once the fundametnals are delivered.

Frankly I think Jones is seriously impressing as a master of fundamental QB play, he's playing like a QB who thinks the game at a very high level just like 2001 Brady did, and they'll open him up sooner than they originally planned, but not before he's ready.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

and how'd that work for them?

you don't challenge someone faster than you to a race


TOP.....limit TB's touches and hope the defense can force some FG's

efficiency - have to convert 3rds and keep drives going, have to score TD's in the end zone

that's how this team will win these games

Worked out really well. Dallas totally outplayed TB. TB's pass D stinks.

 

[venecol]

Yeah, here's the thing though, you can't engage in magical thinking when it comes to a rookie quarterback. Look at what the Jets did with darnold, Sanchez and now Wilson. You can't just pretend rookies can magically run the full offense right away.

I very much doubt that Jones is going to grade out with Alex Smith as his ceiling. But what they're doing is adding a few new wrinkles each practice, making sure they're built on solid fundamentals, and not putting the kid through more than they've worked him on yet.

If you really think this is the best Jones is going to be able to be we shouldn't have taken him in the first round. What he is, is the best he's going to be able to be literally 2 games into his professional career. This is about as limited as we'll ever seem them play Jones, because they're going to bring him along in accordance with a well devised plan. This is the cases regardless of what fans or Jones himself thinks about it. They're not going to ask more of Jones than they know he can deliver.

He'll get chances to prove his growth as the year goes on and the reins will slowly loosen, but they're not going to pretend their rookie is a 5 year veteran the way the Jets do. And I think history will quickly prove that Belichick's way of doing things is much better.

This sounds nice and all but again, that's not what Josh said. They don't have him on training wheels. It's perfectly fine for Jones to check down if that's what he feels he has to do to protect the ball but let's not assume he's being throttled and that's the reason for his >7 ypa (#24).

 

[NFLmac]

There's a whole lot of folks in this forum that would be happy with this. Too many.

I’m confused by this…Why wouldn’t the majority of Patriots fans prefer a win to a loss? Am I miss reading this somehow?

 

[zydecochris]

Yeah, here's the thing though, you can't engage in magical thinking when it comes to a rookie quarterback. Look at what the Jets did with darnold, Sanchez and now Wilson. You can't just pretend rookies can magically run the full offense right away.

I very much doubt that Jones is going to grade out with Alex Smith as his ceiling. But what they're doing is adding a few new wrinkles each practice, making sure they're built on solid fundamentals, and not putting the kid through more than they've worked him on yet.

If you really think this is the best Jones is going to be able to be we shouldn't have taken him in the first round. What he is, is the best he's going to be able to be literally 2 games into his professional career. This is about as limited as we'll ever seem them play Jones, because they're going to bring him along in accordance with a well devised plan. This is the cases regardless of what fans or Jones himself thinks about it. They're not going to ask more of Jones than they know he can deliver.

He'll get chances to prove his growth as the year goes on and the reins will slowly loosen, but they're not going to pretend their rookie is a 5 year veteran the way the Jets do. And I think history will quickly prove that Belichick's way of doing things is much better.

This. Moreover, I think the original plan was for Cam to start at least the first five games, until Mac learned at least a little bit about NFL defenses, but Mac simply beat Cam out. Mac has learned the playbook and NFL defenses faster than most rookie QBs, but that just means that his understanding is a “D+” instead of the “F” of most rookie QBs in their first games. I’m pleased with the way the Patriots have managed Mac so far, as you say we don’t want to goof him up the way the Jet’s have their QBs.

We had the QB with the “A++”, understanding of NFL defenses for so long I understand the impatience, but IMHO we have to give Mac time.

 

[venecol]

Let's get you hit 11 times by 250 plus lb guys that can probably run a 4.6 at full speed and see you don't feel rushed your first 2 games into the season.

Absolutely. I agree with you. However, in this one particular play, unless he's seeing ghosts, there is nobody even remotely close to him. Watch the film man.

 

[Pats2000]

This sounds nice and all but again, that's not what Josh said. They don't have him on training wheels. It's perfectly fine for Jones to check down if that's what he feels he has to do to protect the ball but let's not assume he's being throttled and that's the reason for his >7 ypa (#24).

View attachment 35933

You going to be like Dropkickflutie and repeat the same things over and over again?

 

[Pats2000]

Absolutely. I agree with you. However, in this one particular play, unless he's seeing ghosts, there is nobody even remotely close to him. Watch the film man.

So he needs some time to calm down and for the game to slow down. Give him a second dude

 

[yukon cornelius]

Worked out really well. Dallas totally outplayed TB. TB's pass D stinks.

a loss is a loss is a loss

 

[NewEraWithMac]

a loss is a loss is a loss

I agree, but I know what I saw. Brady threw 2 INTs and Dallas outplayed them. Neither D is good, which actually helps the Pats in both match ups with those teams.

 

[zydecochris]

I hear what you're saying but right now 2 games in we come away with very positive impressions of Mac because of his impressive mastery of the fine art of not giving the ball away. The guy was a bit TO prone in college so for hi to come up in his first 2 games and deliver 0 picks in his first 2 games ever at the NFL level is impressive. They're basically rebuilding the guy to an extent to focus on high percentage plays and ball conttrol, and using him as a field leader in the meantime.

Which I will say, Mac looks like 3 year veteran as a field leader. Combine that with showing some skill at making possession plays and even a couple successful scrambles and I really like the direction they seem to be taking him. The arm is still there once the fundametnals are delivered.

Frankly I think Jones is seriously impressing as a master of fundamental QB play, he's playing like a QB who thinks the game at a very high level just like 2001 Brady did, and they'll open him up sooner than they originally planned, but not before he's ready.

Simpelton, your previous post was really spot-on, and insightful, thanks. However, I'm not sure if you were joking or not, but Mac was anything but turnover prone at Alabama, his senior year he threw 40 TDs to 4 (four) interceptions. His extreme care in not giving the ball away is EXACTLY what he did in college.

....So you might say, if he was so careful how did he get 40 TDs? It is because his OL consisted almost completely of high level draft choices that gave him plenty of time, and his 1st round receivers (Devonte Smith, Jaylen Waddle, John Metchie) were usually wide open. If he has time and the receiver is open, he hits them (at least once he has chemistry with his receivers), and his long ball was his strength. But in college he normally didn't try to zip it into tight windows because he was so turnover averse.

...That is why I originally thought it would be best to have Mac sit the first 5 games or so, he has been programmed to be turnover averse that I figured he would be accused of being to conservative early on (which, in fact, has been the case). At some point he will probably be coached to take some more risks and to try to zip the ball into tighter windows, but I'm not sure when that will happen. I doubt if it will be in the next three games against the defenses he will be going up against though, it may be quite a bit later in the season. Or, maybe they will simply want him to develop slowly this year and rely on his run game and safe passes, who knows?

 

[Steve102]

I’m confused by this…Why wouldn’t the majority of Patriots fans prefer a win to a loss? Am I miss reading this somehow?

nope, you understand perfectly.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

You going to be like Dropkickflutie and repeat the same things over and over again?

He already it is. They're a cult.

Simpelton, your previous post was really spot-on, and insightful, thanks. However, I'm not sure if you were joking or not, but Mac was anything but turnover prone at Alabama, his senior year he threw 40 TDs to 4 (four) interceptions. His extreme care in not giving the ball away is EXACTLY what he did in college.

....So you might say, if he was so careful how did he get 40 TDs? It is because his OL consisted almost completely of high level draft choices that gave him plenty of time, and his 1st round receivers (Devonte Smith, Jaylen Waddle, John Metchie) were usually wide open. If he has time and the receiver is open, he hits them (at least once he has chemistry with his receivers), and his long ball was his strength. But in college he normally didn't try to zip it into tight windows because he was so turnover averse.

Yeah, that confused me, too. Jones had arguably the greatest year ever by a college QB. How Joe Burrow goes #1 overall and no one questions it, and then 12 months later Jones goes 15, is a mystery that will probably never be solved.

It's amazing what the internet and the media can do. Somehow in a 3 month window, the media convinced itself that Trey Lance and Zach Wilson were proven to have better careers in college (even though they didn't).

 

[203Pat]

I hear what you're saying but right now 2 games in we come away with very positive impressions of Mac because of his impressive mastery of the fine art of not giving the ball away. The guy was a bit TO prone in college so for hi to come up in his first 2 games and deliver 0 picks in his first 2 games ever at the NFL level is impressive. They're basically rebuilding the guy to an extent to focus on high percentage plays and ball conttrol, and using him as a field leader in the meantime.

Which I will say, Mac looks like 3 year veteran as a field leader. Combine that with showing some skill at making possession plays and even a couple successful scrambles and I really like the direction they seem to be taking him. The arm is still there once the fundametnals are delivered.

Frankly I think Jones is seriously impressing as a master of fundamental QB play, he's playing like a QB who thinks the game at a very high level just like 2001 Brady did, and they'll open him up sooner than they originally planned, but not before he's ready.

If you had to force me to choose and pick whether they're hyper conservative, or letting it rip with Mac I would choose conservative so I am not getting too worked up especially after only two games. I do worry a little bit about the fumbles in consecutive weeks. We got lucky the ball bounced our way both times and I am hoping with more experience and a healthy o-line those mental errors stop happening so frequently.

 

[Pats2000]

Simpelton, your previous post was really spot-on, and insightful, thanks. However, I'm not sure if you were joking or not, but Mac was anything but turnover prone at Alabama, his senior year he threw 40 TDs to 4 (four) interceptions. His extreme care in not giving the ball away is EXACTLY what he did in college.

....So you might say, if he was so careful how did he get 40 TDs? It is because his OL consisted almost completely of high level draft choices that gave him plenty of time, and his 1st round receivers (Devonte Smith, Jaylen Waddle, John Metchie) were usually wide open. If he has time and the receiver is open, he hits them (at least once he has chemistry with his receivers), and his long ball was his strength. But in college he normally didn't try to zip it into tight windows because he was so turnover averse.

...That is why I originally thought it would be best to have Mac sit the first 5 games or so, he has been programmed to be turnover averse that I figured he would be accused of being to conservative early on (which, in fact, has been the case). At some point he will probably be coached to take some more risks and to try to zip the ball into tighter windows, but I'm not sure when that will happen. I doubt if it will be in the next three games against the defenses he will be going up against though, it may be quite a bit later in the season. Or, maybe they will simply want him to develop slowly this year and rely on his run game and safe passes, who knows?

I disagree that his receivers were always wide open. From what film I've watched, Mac threw his receivers open and got the ball into tight coverage plenty of times. I don't think that's an issue. He is just trying to adjust to NFL game speed.

 

[50-yard-line]

I agree crazy things happen but we kicked the field goal with what? Just over 2 minutes left? Even if Mac threw a pick 6 we still would have the game in hand and be able to burn down most if not all of the clock when we got the ball back. I'm not saying that this was some major coaching blunder but I don't know how many chances Mac will have to get a few live red zone reps in like that with the game in hand.

Why, though?

I don't see how playing it that way does anything for anybody other than fans who want to see it - and we know BB doesn't give a crap about that. He wants to win, period. in that situation, the only thing in the world that can hurt you is a pick-six (rare) or a fumble returned for a TD (incredibly rare).

The play is to run run run, kill the clock, kick the FG. 3-score game, game over.

 

[zydecochris]

I disagree that his receivers were always wide open. From what film I've watched, Mac threw his receivers open and got the ball into tight coverage plenty of times. I don't think that's an issue. He is just trying to adjust to NFL game speed.

I agree that he was excellent at throwing them open and in some cases when covered putting the ball where only the receiver could get it, his accuracy is excellent. I still maintain he rarely made risky throws, and almost never put the ball up for grabs like Wilson last week.