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For everyone that hates the PATS offensive coordinator.


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There is no jugular in the 2nd quarter, which I think BF80 has said a hundred times now...

You want to score on each and every drive, but that's impossibe because no one is perfect. The only score that matters is the one at the end of the game. Whether you score 28 in the 1st half or 2nd half, doesn't matter. The score after 60 minutes is all that matters.

So do you give credit to Mcdaniels for halftime adjustments NEM? Don't avoid this now. You always say how he can't adjust and give the "definition of INSANE" etc.. But since you believe he screwed up in the 2nd quarter yet fixed things at the half, you have to give him credit for adjustments right?


So a great gameplan in the beginning, good adjustments at half, but 3 bad series in the 2nd quarter means that he is not doing a good job? hmmmm
 
NEM said:
The outcome of the game is not the point. The point is, for example, in the 2nd quarter of the Buff game, there was no way to know what the outcome would have been. It was time, IMO, to go for the jugular, and we didnt.

So after the fact you judge the entire game not by the outcome, or by how the team responded after Buffalo stiffened, but by that one six minute span in the 2nd quarter? And this is supposed to be sound logic? 22 point victory. The jugular was reached, regardless of if you feel it was at the right time or not.

Point is, next five games for example, we may not be as fortunate not to make errors, or to have the defense slip a little.

The Patriots haven't lost this season when scoring more than 7 points. And we've only scored less than 20 twice. It's not like the offense isn't pulling it's weight, and it's not like the defense is giving up large sums even in games where they do allow some big plays. Your worry is not supported at all by what has occured.

And I believe that is why BB says the things he does, that we woudl have done some things better,because he realizes that we could have put it away earlier, and didnt.

A coach realizing that there are things to work on and a fan complaining about playcalling in a 22 point win are not nearly the same thing. Bill is talking about missed tackles, missed blocks, bad throws, etc etc etc that a Coach has to worry about. He says they have things to work on after EVERY game. You complain about playcalls after every game. The only thing you really have in common is that you're both consistent in how you present yourself. As to the quality of those presentations, well... better left unsaid.

Was the extra 10 points needed, you ask? Sure it was, at the time I mentioned...because there was no way to know what would transpire later in the game. Tnats my point.

And again I'll say, again you change your parameter to fit your argument. Last week it was that we don't score enough by the final gun and games are too close in the fourth quarter. Now it's that we didn't capitalize on an opportunity in the second quarter of a 22 point win and the final outcome doesn't matter. It's just silly. Did you even worry once about the Patriots not winning that game? Even once? I didn't, not once. I think you're engineering things to complain about because that's all you know how to do.

I could go back and find one game after another in which a team had a lead in the first half, sometimes a good lead, and then lost the game in the 2nd half because of thigs that happened that werent expected...

Yeah, you could find ample examples to fit your argument if you ignored that the Patriots are different than 'most teams'. You're a fan of one of, if not the, best teams in the league right now; they don't respond like 'most teams'. Yes they struggled in 2002 and in 2005, but 2006 is much closer so far to the 2003 and 2004 seasons than either of those. This isn't just 'some team' that your stats could support. They've proved it time and again by winning games that most teams find a way to lose.

No, my friend, if yu have a team down early, in the NFL, you need to go for the jugular or else, strange things can happen.

Are you going to continually worry about what could (and doesn't) happen, or are you going to start to trust the coaching staff that's blessed you with the greatest versions of the team you root for in the history of the franchise?

This is one of the most successful teams in the HISTORY of the NFL. Trust, NEM, let go of your idea that you're smarter than them (silly) and just trust them. Or, conversely, go on spouting and having them prove you wrong as has been happening for the past five years. Whatever floats your boat.
 
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emoney_33 said:
There is no jugular in the 2nd quarter, which I think BF80 has said a hundred times now...

You want to score on each and every drive, but that's impossibe because no one is perfect. The only score that matters is the one at the end of the game. Whether you score 28 in the 1st half or 2nd half, doesn't matter. The score after 60 minutes is all that matters.

So do you give credit to Mcdaniels for halftime adjustments NEM? Don't avoid this now. You always say how he can't adjust and give the "definition of INSANE" etc.. But since you believe he screwed up in the 2nd quarter yet fixed things at the half, you have to give him credit for adjustments right?


So a great gameplan in the beginning, good adjustments at half, but 3 bad series in the 2nd quarter means that he is not doing a good job? hmmmm

Great post, very on point.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Any drive that doesn't end in a TD is a clear and obvious failure of the offensive coordinator.

I really don't know why this is so hard to figure out.
 
Oswlek said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Any drive that doesn't end in a TD is a clear and obvious failure of the offensive coordinator.

I really don't know why this is so hard to figure out.


haha :rofl:

Man, when you say it that way it just makes so much sense!

:rofl:
 
NEM said:
Thats the polint that you refuse to accept. When you have a team down, and you have been given opportunities to go for the jugular, by your defense getting you the ball, and you dont take advantage of it, three times in a row, you could easily be setting up your team for failure in the end. Of courlse, it appears as if you just wont get it, though. Because yu have been led to believe that I am wrong...by the loud Anti-=NEM group, when in fact, you really dont know what the hell you are talking about. See that, now you gone and done it and made an old man mad...

NEM, you speak in vaguaries like "going for the jugular", but you have absolutely no substance in your posts. If you want to be taken seriously, say exactly what was wrong in those three drives that ended with no points in the second half. And don't just say playaction, you need to touch upon:

1) The play calls that were made and the defenses reaction to them.
2) Why those play calls could not have worked. (meaning, was there really no chance or was there a missed block or overthrown pass - which are indicative of a player's mistake, not a coaching one)
3) The play calls that you feel would be more "going for the jugular" and why they would have worked better.
4) Formations that should be used, and comments on those formation that were used.

You act as if you are some kind of expert, but yet say nothing. There is no Anti-NEM group, just a few posters who see irrational babbling and call you on it. I would welcome your criticisms of the team if it wasn't so obtuse and self-congratulatory in nature.
 
NEM said:
Dont give me that techincal crap....Face the facts, the play calling, overall, was just pitiful during those three posessions. Go look it up for yourself if you wlant to, dont bother me. 1) You arent thinking and comprehending the intent of my comments. 2) Youjust dont get it. Get the hell off of the Anti NEM bullsh!t.... 3) think for yourself. I am through with your 4) total ignorance. Now, if you dont mind, I am off to the doctor to learn how to be a brain surgeon. 5) Some of you need help.

Have a nice day. BTW, I have stated many times that I am far from being an expert. But, one thing I do have is a hell of a lot more common sense and a much deeper way of studying the game..6) Maybe when you grow up you will understand. Until then, live and learn.

So, I ask you to actually qualify your comments a little and your response is to sling 6 insults in a matter of two paragraphs. Way to portray that "much deeper" understanding of the game.

BTW, aren't you the same persone who was giving people the business for calling you names?
 
NEM said:
Of course there is. Because HE said it a hundred times doesn't, necessarilly, make it right.

Yea what everyone on this board tries to tell you everyday. Just because YOU say something 16000 times does not make it right, PERIOD.

"Going for the jugular" is a terminology. In any competitition that you want to win, if you have your opponent down, and yuo are in control, you wlant to go for the jugular at any time in order to put him/her, the team, etc. at an even further disadvantage. By "going for the jugular" early in a game, and accomplishing what yu want to do, yuo have every advantage over your opponent for the rest of the game, match, etc...and it allows you to overcome any mistakes that you may make later in the contest, and helps you to secure victory in a much easier fashion than if you had not gone for the jugular and taken control of the situation in a much stronger way.

No **** shirlock. Whoever said that Mcdaniels was trying to NOT score or trying to fail? Are you trying to suggest that it is possible to magically say "ok i need points now so I choose to score now and not later, because I am magic"? Or are you trying to suggest that Mcdaniels intentionally did not attempt to score on those 3 series? Oh wait, you are saying that he tried to score but called bad plays and even though the 11 patriots players on the field didn't execute those plays, it is still the plays that were called that is to blame. Of course somehow he decided to call better plays when it didn't matter as much, or was it still bad plays but now the players were executing them?


And, I believe that any coach, of any sport, of any team will tell you that if they could "go for the jugular" so to speak, at any time in a game, they would gladly do it. No one wants to have to come from way behind, and any team , or player, will tell you, IMO, that they want to get as big a jump on an opponent as they can.....no matter when it is. That is common sense.

WOW again stating the obvious. When did anyone ever say we DIDNT want to score early or we wanted to come from behind?



You are taking the wortds of others. I have NEVER said that i want to score on LEVERY Drive. While it would be nice, I am not ignoran t enough to believe it is possible, too many things can happen.

Of course these "too many things" never happen on any of the series you curse Mcdaniels for though right? In your magical NEM world, the "too many things can happeN" rule doesnt apply when you want to bash Mcdaniels. It's never a case of bad execution, never a case of the opposing defense playing well etc.. hindsight is 20/20, and a plan that fails isn't automatically a bad plan. If the evidence suggests beforehand that a certain plan (or play) is more likely to succeed than another, well that plan (or play) was the right call regardless of outcome. Unless you can see the future then you should never fail.


And yes, it does matter when you score 28. If yu score them in the first half, and if things go bad in the second half, at least you have bujilt up a lead and might still be able to survive your mistakes and the other team's comeback because there is still time.

What if things go bad in the first half? Again you use this hypothetical of things possibly going bad in the future when it suits you. Your argument has become "you should do it now because things could go bad in the future and it might now work". But yuo never ever once stop to think that "things" could have went bad the first time and that's why it failed. You put yourself in this big circular argument and you just keep spinning around it, Going from one thing to the next when it suits you.

But, if you are behind and need to score 28 in the second half, it makes it muchmore difficult on youirself and the opponents have the advantage. Thats why it is not done that often that teams come back from deficits, especially big one... Not to say that it doesnt happen though, and that proves my point. Better to be ahead by 28 at the half than needing 28 to win. Again, common sense.

Common sense is something it is clear that you do not have. The point was 28 points in the 1st half = 28 points in the 2nd half. NOT 28 points in the first half = TRYING to score 28 in the 2nd half. The point is it does NOT matter when you score the points if, in fact, you do score the points. PERIOD. But once again you twist words around and invent things to suit yourself. You create things to argue about and try to force your opinions on the world.

"common sense is not so common" applies to you.


You still dont get the point. You are grasping at straws. McDaniels , and the Pats, had a good second half and the defense had a big hand in helping them. Also, it was the passing game inthe 2nd half that got them going, not the running game....

passing game, running game, both offense...

Over the course of the 6 games,however, he has been very slow to make changes,and or adjust and many of the games we have won could have turned on one, or two, mistakes by us.


Could have would have should have. Oh if ifs and buts were candy and nuts... Your biggest problem is your desire to be right comes before your passion for the patriots winning. Qutie pitiful

Thats the polint that you refuse to accept. When you have a team down, and you have been given opportunities to go for the jugular, by your defense getting you the ball, and you dont take advantage of it, three times in a row, you could easily be setting up your team for failure in the end.


Is there some sort of magic that Mcdaniels should have the ability to FORCE the patriots to succeed when you see fit so that they dont fail later? If he had that ability then there would be no worry about failing later now would there. How about you go break down the 3 series that you didnt like, kind of like Box does and tell us exactly what you have called and why Mcdaniels call was bad on each play of those 3 series... Of course you won't, you'll ignore this challenge, making you look like a chump that got called out to prove something and just ran away and ignored it as if it never happened.

Of courlse, it appears as if you just wont get it, though. Because yu have been led to believe that I am wrong...by the loud Anti-=NEM group, when in fact, you really dont know what the hell you are talking about. See that, now you gone and done it and made an old man mad... :D

There is an anti-nem group here? I've read the forums enough to form my own opinion on you, I am not led to believe anything. I've rarely if ever saw you ever post anything except your worthless rantings about how the offensive coordinator is doing a horrible job, how your opinions are always right, how everyone else is stupid etc... In fact every time I've read a thread you are in, it's about the OC and always has something to the effect of "I"m right, I know I am, it just takes a while to be proven right". You are NEVER proven right, you are ALWAYS proven wrong. You just take arguments that take a lot to disprove you or are based on opinion or things only people inside the orgnization would be able to prove/disprove. You hope people forget about it but when they don't you ignore it and pick and choose what to resopnd to, always giving out personal attacks.

SINCE WHEN does putting :D after a personal attack make the personal attack oK? Do you think no one sees what you do, as if that stupid smiley is your protection from being able to personally attack everyone.

I wrote: So a great gameplan in the beginning, good adjustments at half, but 3 bad series in the 2nd quarter means that he is not doing a good job? hmmmm

You respond: Quite frankly, that ignorant comment doesn't even deserve a response. It shows that your mind is somewhat vacant. But, what the hell, everyone cant all be on the same wave length. Thats what makes the world go around. :D


Another case of being backed into a corner and rather answer the question you throw out a personal attack. Followed by a smiley of course, I'm guessing to use as your defense in case of a ban that you had the smiley there to indicate sarcasm.

I actually think it's quite funny that you cant' answer this. Your warped mind ( :D ) can't argue against that now can it, because it is obvious you have no argument. Everythign you have ever said has been proven wrong, used against you, contradicted by yourself etc... but you just keep at it.


Also please stop replying inside of the quotes so that other people cannot quote you. Wonder why you wouldn't want other people to be able to quote you...



50 years of watching television, never once seeing a coach's tape, but thinks he knows everything...

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
 
What's funny about this "not going for the jugular in the 2nd quarter" business is that we're essentially talking about 3 three-and-outs, 9 non-punting plays all told, in which the Pats were unable to gain positive yards on over half of them.

Before you you "go for the jugular" you have to be able to pick up a first down. If your runs are being stuffed and your QB is being sacked, there's a very good chance you're looking at EXECUTION problems, not play-calling issues.

The first two drives of the quarter were killed by poor line play. Maroney was taken down in the backfield on one, and Brady sacked in each for major losses, part of a running theme of our OT's struggling all game.

In the third drive, we were backed up at our 18 with 2 minutes left and an 11 point lead. Your primary objective in that situation is to not set up your opponent with a short field. I know you want to "go for the jugular," but the most important thing in that situation is not giving the other team points + momentum going into the half. The drive got off to a bad start with a bad overthrow by Brady. After that, it was necessary that whatever plays we ran take time off the clock, as otherwise all we're doing is setting the Bills up for the last possession of the half. We ran the ball, and weren't helped by a line breakdown on that resulted in Faulk being taken down in the backfield. On third down, at our own 15, the important thing was to get some yardage back so as to be able to punt the Bills out of FG range. The Bills would be dropping back into coverage, so we gave Maroney the ball, and damn if he didn't almost get us the first.


So where is this lack of going for the jugular? The way to really put the Bills away at that point would be to mount a long, steady scoring drive... because of some bad execution on the line, we were unable to even pick up a first down.
 
:D
Pat_Nasty said:
What's funny about this "not going for the jugular in the 2nd quarter" business is that we're essentially talking about 3 three-and-outs, 9 non-punting plays all told, in which the Pats were unable to gain positive yards on over half of them.

Before you you "go for the jugular" you have to be able to pick up a first down. If your runs are being stuffed and your QB is being sacked, there's a very good chance you're looking at EXECUTION problems, not play-calling issues.

The first two drives of the quarter were killed by poor line play. Maroney was taken down in the backfield on one, and Brady sacked in each for major losses, part of a running theme of our OT's struggling all game.

In the third drive, we were backed up at our 18 with 2 minutes left and an 11 point lead. Your primary objective in that situation is to not set up your opponent with a short field. I know you want to "go for the jugular," but the most important thing in that situation is not giving the other team points + momentum going into the half. The drive got off to a bad start with a bad overthrow by Brady. After that, it was necessary that whatever plays we ran take time off the clock, as otherwise all we're doing is setting the Bills up for the last possession of the half. We ran the ball, and weren't helped by a line breakdown on that resulted in Faulk being taken down in the backfield. On third down, at our own 15, the important thing was to get some yardage back so as to be able to punt the Bills out of FG range. The Bills would be dropping back into coverage, so we gave Maroney the ball, and damn if he didn't almost get us the first.


So where is this lack of going for the jugular? The way to really put the Bills away at that point would be to mount a long, steady scoring drive... because of some bad execution on the line, we were unable to even pick up a first down.


STOP! STOP! STOP! In the name of all that is holy STOP!....with the common sense and facts..... you are making a mockery of this thread with Facts and Reality....now back to the fantasy world.....:D
 
NEM's a ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************, **spit**.

:) As Pats-Blue notes, facts and analysis are unwelcome in NEM world From now on I'll stick to NEM's preferred rhetorical tool - name calling. :p
 
NEM said:
You are right and I am totally wrong.
STOP!!!!! You got the answer right, then blew it.

Sigh, no commen sense to speak of, how sad. :(
 
Box_O_Rocks said:
STOP!!!!! You got the answer right, then blew it.

Sigh, no commen sense to speak of, how sad. :(

utterly flabbergasting...reminds me of my dear departed stepfather before he passed away from Alzheimers...
 
NEM said:
I agree with everything you posted. You are right and I am totally wrong. You know everything and I know nothing Someday I hope to grow up and be just like you.

Truth is palsy, you will never know half of what I probably already forgot.

And, guess what else, you aint seen nothin" yet. Thanks to people like you who know very little about people, and thanks to people like you who have a hard time comprehending and reading between the lines (if you even know what that means) thanks to crap like you just posted wihich, for the most part is a pile of sh!t...you just give me reason to keep going on..you see, in time, and it takes times onoccasion, most of everything I say is always proven to be correct, at least for those that have eyes open enough to see, and if they really want to see...of whichy you are not included.

Thanks for fueling my fire. Now I can go on even stronger and with more gusto.

Try again in a couple of weeks when I might need a refill. Have a nice life.


Well at least you made me laugh this time :singing: :singing: :singing:
 
Pat_Nasty said:
What's funny about this "not going for the jugular in the 2nd quarter" business is that we're essentially talking about 3 three-and-outs, 9 non-punting plays all told, in which the Pats were unable to gain positive yards on over half of them.

Before you you "go for the jugular" you have to be able to pick up a first down. If your runs are being stuffed and your QB is being sacked, there's a very good chance you're looking at EXECUTION problems, not play-calling issues.

The first two drives of the quarter were killed by poor line play. Maroney was taken down in the backfield on one, and Brady sacked in each for major losses, part of a running theme of our OT's struggling all game.

In the third drive, we were backed up at our 18 with 2 minutes left and an 11 point lead. Your primary objective in that situation is to not set up your opponent with a short field. I know you want to "go for the jugular," but the most important thing in that situation is not giving the other team points + momentum going into the half. The drive got off to a bad start with a bad overthrow by Brady. After that, it was necessary that whatever plays we ran take time off the clock, as otherwise all we're doing is setting the Bills up for the last possession of the half. We ran the ball, and weren't helped by a line breakdown on that resulted in Faulk being taken down in the backfield. On third down, at our own 15, the important thing was to get some yardage back so as to be able to punt the Bills out of FG range. The Bills would be dropping back into coverage, so we gave Maroney the ball, and damn if he didn't almost get us the first.


So where is this lack of going for the jugular? The way to really put the Bills away at that point would be to mount a long, steady scoring drive... because of some bad execution on the line, we were unable to even pick up a first down.


Another brilliant ray of logic that will innocently ping off of NEM's heavy metallic helmet of 'rightness'. Sigh, it's such a shame that so many great posts are lost on such a hopeless cause.
 
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