Enough about our limitations, how about those refs?

[Thunderhead]

The Jonathan Jones call was outrageously bad given the timing and way the game was called to that point, but the Pats didn't really deserve to win at the same time. Too many mistakes.

 

[ScottishPatriots]

When you suck and you have no margin for error you notice the refs more.

 

[p8ryts]

When is this league gonna improve on PI calls? Why can't they have an extra ref up above with the power to slow down the game to get a call right? It's no surprise at all that they miss calls in real time, but there's so many that could be fixed that aren't. Yesterday we got hosed on 3 of them:

- Stevenson hit in the ez as he's trying to catch a TD. It wasn't severe contact but it was equivalent to other PI's I saw called in our game & others

- Wilson called for PI in the ez when he & the WR got tangled up. Contact no worse than the Stevenson no-call, PLUS a 10' tall WR couldn't have caught that in bounds

- Jon Jones on a horrendous 20+ yard PI call in OT that gives Seattle the game

- Seattle had no significant PI calls or non-calls against them. Witherspoon had a questionable one on a short route at mid-field, that was it.

An extra ref reviewing these could also help balance these out. If they let the Stevenson play go, then let the Wilson play go. The head ref on the field is incapable of this.

And where are the camera angles? It seems like these early games have 1/4 of the cameras of the later games.

You have to be a good team to get more cameras. I thought Wilson mugged the guy, ball looked uncatchable. Maybe the refs weren't used to seeing close coverage by our DB's yesterday. It probably caught them by surprise so they must have assumed there was interference.

 

[Kdo5]

When is this league gonna improve on PI calls? Why can't they have an extra ref up above with the power to slow down the game to get a call right? It's no surprise at all that they miss calls in real time, but there's so many that could be fixed that aren't. Yesterday we got hosed on 3 of them:

- Stevenson hit in the ez as he's trying to catch a TD. It wasn't severe contact but it was equivalent to other PI's I saw called in our game & others

- Wilson called for PI in the ez when he & the WR got tangled up. Contact no worse than the Stevenson no-call, PLUS a 10' tall WR couldn't have caught that in bounds

- Jon Jones on a horrendous 20+ yard PI call in OT that gives Seattle the game

- Seattle had no significant PI calls or non-calls against them. Witherspoon had a questionable one on a short route at mid-field, that was it.

An extra ref reviewing these could also help balance these out. If they let the Stevenson play go, then let the Wilson play go. The head ref on the field is incapable of this.

And where are the camera angles? It seems like these early games have 1/4 of the cameras of the later games.

Wilson’s PI was a legit call. He needs to be better. The ball wasn’t even going to be caught and he still mugged the receiver.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

When you suck and you have no margin for error you notice the refs more.

If you made a list of the top 10 plays why we lost, those 3 PI plays would be on it, probably in the top 5 along with the blown Metcalf coverage and the bad sack that led to the blocked fg.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Wilson’s PI was a legit call. He needs to be better. The ball wasn’t even going to be caught and he still mugged the receiver.

We only saw 1 quick replay from a bad angle. Several posters on the game thread saw grabbing on both guys. Regardless it was clearly way oob and uncatchable, so therefore not PI.

 

[Real fan 02]

When is this league gonna improve on PI calls? Why can't they have an extra ref up above with the power to slow down the game to get a call right? It's no surprise at all that they miss calls in real time, but there's so many that could be fixed that aren't. Yesterday we got hosed on 3 of them:

- Stevenson hit in the ez as he's trying to catch a TD. It wasn't severe contact but it was equivalent to other PI's I saw called in our game & others

- Wilson called for PI in the ez when he & the WR got tangled up. Contact no worse than the Stevenson no-call, PLUS a 10' tall WR couldn't have caught that in bounds

- Jon Jones on a horrendous 20+ yard PI call in OT that gives Seattle the game

- Seattle had no significant PI calls or non-calls against them. Witherspoon had a questionable one on a short route at mid-field, that was it.

An extra ref reviewing these could also help balance these out. If they let the Stevenson play go, then let the Wilson play go. The head ref on the field is incapable of this.

And where are the camera angles? It seems like these early games have 1/4 of the cameras of the later games.

The problem has been for a long time with NFL reffs.. they aren't considered FT employees.. most are retired bankers or teachers or in other professions.

So this isn't a main job for them... there's seemingly no ramifications of making egregious calls for them.

 

[Real fan 02]

yeah. you are right on both points. The difference in the JJ call would really be negligible. and you are also right I would complain. and rightly so if your scenario plays out.

One call being able to instantly change a game? I have a problem with that though. A spot foul, where either the player didn't have a chance to catch it, or the ref gets it wrong? Spot Foul/PI call tilts the competitive advantage to the offense - which is the reason why its a bad penalty - and its also the reason why its in the game... to boost offensive performance... just like Baseball juiced the balls to crank up the home run count. this helps artificially boost scoring...

Got persistent offenders? do what soccer does yellow card/red card them. Second penalty, you're out for the game. Get chucked three games? suspended for another...

Takes me back to the NFL saying ooops.. to Ellis Hobbs on the BS PI call on Wayne in the AFCCG in 06-07... with led to a TD.. ugggh..

 

[upstater1]

Takes me back to the NFL saying ooops.. to Ellis Hobbs on the BS PI call on Wayne in the AFCCG in 06-07... with led to a TD.. ugggh..

Compounded by what happened to Reche Caldwell... with absolutely no call.

 

[Real fan 02]

Compounded by what happened to Reche Caldwell... with absolutely no call.

Yes. Good point you brought up. Forgot all about that.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Have a replay official dedicated to each game who can pause play and review the most consequential calls or non-calls, which are usually PI calls and non-calls.

It's interesting what international rugby does. They have a dedicated replay booth that the viewers can watch and see exactly what the replay officials are seeing. And the refs are miked-up the whole time. But rugby does have an advantage for the most consequential decision - whether to send off a player for a dangerous tackle (which means the team plays a man down thereafter). That's because they have some time to decide as the player is out of the game for 10 minutes anyhow with a yellow card.

But it would be easy here for a replay official to review the play after a flag and tell the ref the flag was justified or not. A bit harder for non-calls though.

 

[ahmed]

I didn't hate the league making DPI challengeable not sure why they got rid of that rule.

Yes the ref ought to be making subjective calls not the guy watching on the monitor in New York but like with any replay challenge, there must be clear evidence to overturn so I don't have a problem with it. If the call is clearly wrong it gets overturned. I think the call in OT gets overturned if challenged.

Refs got offended and refused to overturn pretty much everything. Became a joke.

 

[Vindicate]

Sure, but my philosophy has always been: If you leave the game in the hands of the ref, you don't deserve to win. It's tough for this team because they have to win on the margins, but in general, if one or two plays going the wrong way can cost you the game, it was a coin flip to begin with.

This is the correct take. If you've put yourself in a position where a call can make you lose, you screwed up as a team and shouldn't have put yourself in that position. Patriots had plenty of moments to increase their lead or stop the Seahawks before then and they messed up. That's why they lost.

 

[Vindicate]

Refs got offended and refused to overturn pretty much everything. Became a joke.

Yeah wasn't that made even clear at the beginning of the season? I feel like I remember there being noise along the lines of "they're going to allow challenges but refs are set to not overturn anything" before week 1.

Refs are intensely stupid. Kinda staggering how dumb they actually are.

 

[captain stone]

If you made a list of the top 10 plays why we lost, those 3 PI plays would be on it, probably in the top 5 along with the blown Metcalf coverage and the bad sack that led to the blocked fg.

...Along with the non-call for OPI during the 2nd quarter, 9:48 left, 3rd/4 on Seattle's own 36... Led to their 2nd TD.

 

[lancerman]

Yeah wasn't that made even clear at the beginning of the season? I feel like I remember there being noise along the lines of "they're going to allow challenges but refs are set to not overturn anything" before week 1.

Refs are intensely stupid. Kinda staggering how dumb they actually are.

It wasn't the refs. The league made it very clear that the challenge was for egregious calls like the Saints/Rams game where there was zero debate and it was flagarant. The coaches challenged pretty much everything and as a result the calls kept standing. Then at the end of the year the owners who didn't want to do it to begin with (they were very against challenging subjective calls) just said "well it failed like we thought, back to the old way".

I promise you, refs are just going to take whatever directive the league gives them. If the league said "if it even looks close to PI, change it". We saw this back in 04 when they told the refs to be tighter on defensive holding. The league just doesn't want challenges on subjective calls. They were upset about something incredibly obvious and way over the top not having a recourse. But then when they tried to implement something of a fix and told the coaches how it would be handled, the coaches tried to use it to overturn any call they disagreed with, which was the leagues main concern all along.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

We only saw 1 quick replay from a bad angle. Several posters on the game thread saw grabbing on both guys. Regardless it was clearly way oob and uncatchable, so therefore not PI.

It almost looked like it could have been offensive interference, the receiver initiated the contact.

 

[Vindicate]

It wasn't the refs. The league made it very clear that the challenge was for egregious calls like the Saints/Rams game where there was zero debate and it was flagarant. The coaches challenged pretty much everything and as a result the calls kept standing. Then at the end of the year the owners who didn't want to do it to begin with (they were very against challenging subjective calls) just said "well it failed like we thought, back to the old way".

I promise you, refs are just going to take whatever directive the league gives them. If the league said "if it even looks close to PI, change it". We saw this back in 04 when they told the refs to be tighter on defensive holding. The league just doesn't want challenges on subjective calls. They were upset about something incredibly obvious and way over the top not having a recourse. But then when they tried to implement something of a fix and told the coaches how it would be handled, the coaches tried to use it to overturn any call they disagreed with, which was the leagues main concern all along.

I appreciate the insight; the refs are more or less goons.

Really stupid goons.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

...Along with the non-call for OPI during the 2nd quarter, 9:48 left, 3rd/4 on Seattle's own 36... Led to their 2nd TD.

I forgot about that, the pick play.

 

[bresna]

I forgot about that, the pick play.

A very obvious pick play. How do they not call that?