Cunningham & Brace Progression

[Brady2Welker]

Cunningham: From the little I was diligently watching him this game, he seems to be getting decent pressure at times, although he still had times where he struggled setting the edge. Plus he got his hand up on that one play.

I hope that with more experience he can improve, we're desperate for some OLB love.


Was anyone really watching Brace? I would love to know how he was looking.

 

[condon84]

Sorry, I didn't see nothing from Cunningham at all tonight to make me say, "hey, there's something there with this kid." He didn't have the speed and quickness to get around the guy blocking him (it was the RT) and he certainly didn't have enough strength to push him back to cause any type of disruption. I waited and waited and hoped to see something, but nothing.

I didn't see much of Brace so I can't comment on what he did.

 

[Brady2Welker]

I'm not saying he looked he was Demarcus Ware, but he seemed to have some nice plays here and there. I was hoping that someone with a better eye for this would comment on it.

 

[JackBauer]

Sorry, I didn't see nothing from Cunningham at all tonight to make me say, "hey, there's something there with this kid."

Hey, now there's a shocker.

Anyway, my view on Cunningham hasn't changed. He's got potential and should be starting soon. I did notice a good punch on an interior pass rush against (I think) the RG. People also need to bear in mind that Long and Carey are excellent OTs.

 

[ALP]

this is coming from a novice, so be warned ahead of time:

watching cunningham at times, it seems to me that he would either try a bull rush or some type of outside move to get around the tackle, but that he gave up on it too fast

for example i saw numerous plays where he bull rushed, and drove the RT back right next to Henne, at which point Cunningham came to a stop

not sure if that happened b/c the RT stopped giving way or b/c cunningham stopped pushing, but i think its the latter, and after he stopped bull rushing, he would try spin moves and things like that prob two feet away from henne that just would not work

personally i see potential there, and well see how it goes

 

[Kasmir]

Sorry, I didn't see nothing from Cunningham at all tonight to make me say, "hey, there's something there with this kid." He didn't have the speed and quickness to get around the guy blocking him (it was the RT) and he certainly didn't have enough strength to push him back to cause any type of disruption. I waited and waited and hoped to see something, but nothing.

Cunningham lined up on both sides in both 2 and 3 point stances. He got a couple of pressures, a deflection, and stopped a wildcat play. To my eyes, he's faster, stronger, and quicker than all our other OLB types. Keep in mind that he missed the whole preseason -- that was his 4th pro game. He's going to be a very good one.

 

[Patspsycho]

this is coming from a novice, so be warned ahead of time:

watching cunningham at times, it seems to me that he would either try a bull rush or some type of outside move to get around the tackle, but that he gave up on it too fast

for example i saw numerous plays where he bull rushed, and drove the RT back right next to Henne, at which point Cunningham came to a stop

not sure if that happened b/c the RT stopped giving way or b/c cunningham stopped pushing, but i think its the latter, and after he stopped bull rushing, he would try spin moves and things like that prob two feet away from henne that just would not work

personally i see potential there, and well see how it goes

I saw this too and agree. He gives up too fast. He has to learn to finish a play.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Sorry, I didn't see nothing from Cunningham at all tonight to make me say, "hey, there's something there with this kid." He didn't have the speed and quickness to get around the guy blocking him (it was the RT) and he certainly didn't have enough strength to push him back to cause any type of disruption. I waited and waited and hoped to see something, but nothing.

I didn't see much of Brace so I can't comment on what he did.

Condon, he definitely made a few plays. He had a deflection after some penetration on a Henne pass attempt. He got in twice (maybe three times) to get a hit on Henne after the release. It's one of those things where it would have been a sack if they secondary forced Henne to hold on to the ball for a half second longer. He was never glaringly out of place, though he did struggle a bit setting the edge.

I think what you and I saw was that he doesn't appear to be a dynamic player yet. Even the good plays looked rather pedestrian. I think we all are looking at Ware and Peppers and want Cunningham to look like that. Maybe in time, he can be that. Right now, he's just an average first-year player learning his way around. As someone said, he missed all of preseason action so this is his learning experience.

 

[BelizePats]

Cunningham does not yet have the technique down to get constant pressure in the NFL. In college he was able to get by on athletic talent alone. What we have is a very raw rookie with serious athletic skills who should be a far better player in year two and three with some heavy film study and NFL coaching under his belt.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Hey, now there's a shocker.

Anyway, my view on Cunningham hasn't changed. He's got potential and should be starting soon. I did notice a good punch on an interior pass rush against (I think) the RG. People also need to bear in mind that Long and Carey are excellent OTs.

Now Jack, don't add insult to injury to sour grapes.

The kid made some plays and he's big. At this point, all we can do is hope he has the desire because if he does; the potential is there.

 

[patman12]

It looked like he took himself out of some plays by rushing straight upfield and getting pushed into insignificance by the tackle. On other plays he got decent pressure, which hurried some throws. He's got a ways to go but he shows some flashes.

 

[condon84]

Condon, he definitely made a few plays. He had a deflection after some penetration on a Henne pass attempt. He got in twice (maybe three times) to get a hit on Henne after the release. It's one of those things where it would have been a sack if they secondary forced Henne to hold on to the ball for a half second longer. He was never glaringly out of place, though he did struggle a bit setting the edge.

I think what you and I saw was that he doesn't appear to be a dynamic player yet. Even the good plays looked rather pedestrian. I think we all are looking at Ware and Peppers and want Cunningham to look like that. Maybe in time, he can be that. Right now, he's just an average first-year player learning his way around. As someone said, he missed all of preseason action so this is his learning experience.

The few times he even came close to the QB, it was because Henne held on to the ball a long time. You could say the same thing about Mike Wright, who got close to Henne after Henne held on to the ball a long time. I'm not trying to rag on the kid, but I just didn't see anything that stood out. I'm not expecting Julius Peppers or Ware either, just looking for consistent pressure. For example, Colvin never led the league in sacks when he was here, but when he was on the field, he was always back there pressuring the QB on a consistent basis. Maybe Cunningham had an off night, but out of all the OLBs we had, Banta Cain showed the quickest step and made the Dolphins OTs worked the hardest on pass protection. I didn't see any of our OLBs overpower their OTs at all, but those guys are huge so I wasn't expecting that.

 

[condon84]

Hey, now there's a shocker.

Anyway, my view on Cunningham hasn't changed. He's got potential and should be starting soon. I did notice a good punch on an interior pass rush against (I think) the RG. People also need to bear in mind that Long and Carey are excellent OTs.

Just being honest.

 

[BSR]

The few times he even came close to the QB, it was because Henne held on to the ball a long time. You could say the same thing about Mike Wright, who got close to Henne after Henne held on to the ball a long time. I'm not trying to rag on the kid, but I just didn't see anything that stood out. I'm not expecting Julius Peppers or Ware either, just looking for consistent pressure. For example, Colvin never led the league in sacks when he was here, but when he was on the field, he was always back there pressuring the QB on a consistent basis. Maybe Cunningham had an off night, but out of all the OLBs we had, Banta Cain showed the quickest step and made the Dolphins OTs worked the hardest on pass protection. I didn't see any of our OLBs overpower their OTs at all, but those guys are huge so I wasn't expecting that.

Colvin did not pressure the QB on a consistent basis. No OLB does. They all have there moments and Cunningham has shown flashes here and there. He is still raw and like others have noted he has to develop technique, but that is much different then saying "I saw nothing". Its his fourth game as a pro and you expect consistent preassure from him? Maybe your expectations are misplaced.

My biggest problem with Cunningham was that he seemed too often to go with the bull rush, especially late in the game.

 

[mcsully]

Colvin did not pressure the QB on a consistent basis. No OLB does. They all have there moments and Cunningham has shown flashes here and there. He is still raw and like others have noted he has to develop technique, but that is much different then saying "I saw nothing". Its his fourth game as a pro and you expect consistent preassure from him? Maybe your expectations are misplaced.

True but the elite guys do.. Ware and Spencer for Dallas are always pushin gthe pocket back..

My biggest problem with Cunningham was that he seemed too often to go with the bull rush, especially late in the game.

See I saw being taken out of the play a lot by the tackle just pushing him past the pocket (to many speed rushes).. I'm not to worried, he shows you glimpses of being a good player..

 

[DaBruinz]

Sorry, I didn't see nothing from Cunningham at all tonight to make me say, "hey, there's something there with this kid." He didn't have the speed and quickness to get around the guy blocking him (it was the RT) and he certainly didn't have enough strength to push him back to cause any type of disruption. I waited and waited and hoped to see something, but nothing.

I didn't see much of Brace so I can't comment on what he did.

When I see comments like yours, I always have to wonder what game you were actually watching.

1) Cunningham was the one who drew a double on the punt block unit to allow Chung free access into the backfield.

2) Cunningham was getting plenty of pressure on the quarterback all night. Pressure on the QB is what the Pats look for, not sacks. Sacks are a bonus. Cunninghams was doing so from the left and right side. Yes, they moved him over to the right side for a few plays.

3) On one running play, he very effectively sealed the edge and forced Rickey Williams back inside. The only problem was that Mayo and whomever the safety was weren't there to make the stop. That doesn't mean that Cunningham failed to do his job.

4) Vernon Carey is the Dolphins RT. He's a former 1st round pick who was mediocre as a LT, but is very good as a RT. And there were plenty of times that Cunningham pushed Carey back and cause pressure on the QB.

Condon - One of the things about you is that you get these ideas in your head and almost nothing will get you to realize that you are being overly critical and that you are purposely ignoring and downplaying what the player does. I have yet to see you actually admit you were ever wrong about anyone's play.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I saw Cunningham get some good pressures. I saw Brace in on like one play

 

[TheComeback]

Sorry, I didn't see nothing from Cunningham at all tonight to make me say, "hey, there's something there with this kid." He didn't have the speed and quickness to get around the guy blocking him (it was the RT) and he certainly didn't have enough strength to push him back to cause any type of disruption. I waited and waited and hoped to see something, but nothing.

I didn't see much of Brace so I can't comment on what he did.

I don't think you were watching Cunningham very closely, then. I just re-watched the game on DVR, and Cunningham was our best pass rusher last night. He absolutely dominated Carey on passing downs.

You don't have to break free of the tackle or hit the QB to do your job as an OLB. Cunningham was pushing the pocket, getting around the edge and forcing Henne to move his feet all the way through the 2nd half.

For a rookie who missed almost all of training camp and the preseason, he looks excellent. I do believe he will be the answer at one of our OLB spots. He has work to do against the run, but he's light years ahead of any OLB prospect Bill's ever had on the Patriots at this point.

 

[condon84]

When I see comments like yours, I always have to wonder what game you were actually watching.

1) Cunningham was the one who drew a double on the punt block unit to allow Chung free access into the backfield.

My criticism was his lack of pass rush.

2) Cunningham was getting plenty of pressure on the quarterback all night. Pressure on the QB is what the Pats look for, not sacks. Sacks are a bonus. Cunninghams was doing so from the left and right side. Yes, they moved him over to the right side for a few plays.

When I see comments like yours, I always have to wonder what game you were actually watching.

3) On one running play, he very effectively sealed the edge and forced Rickey Williams back inside. The only problem was that Mayo and whomever the safety was weren't there to make the stop. That doesn't mean that Cunningham failed to do his job.

If we're just picking one play to represent a player's effectiveness, then we can go through the whole lineup and make each player sound like a Pro-Bowler.

4) Vernon Carey is the Dolphins RT. He's a former 1st round pick who was mediocre as a LT, but is very good as a RT. And there were plenty of times that Cunningham pushed Carey back and cause pressure on the QB.

I'm not discounting Carey's effectiveness as a RT. He looked good. He neutralized whoever rushed from his end for the majority of the night, including Cunningham.

Condon - One of the things about you is that you get these ideas in your head and almost nothing will get you to realize that you are being overly critical and that you are purposely ignoring and downplaying what the player does. I have yet to see you actually admit you were ever wrong about anyone's play.

I make comments on what I see. I'm being honest. Sure, if a player plays great, then I've said so plenty of times. It's only when I post anything that's not flattering is when people get all riled up.

I never said this guy is a bust or declared that he's a JAG. Last night, he didn't do anything that stood out.

 

[condon84]

I don't think you were watching Cunningham very closely, then. I just re-watched the game on DVR, and Cunningham was our best pass rusher last night. He absolutely dominated Carey on passing downs.

You don't have to break free of the tackle or hit the QB to do your job as an OLB. Cunningham was pushing the pocket, getting around the edge and forcing Henne to move his feet all the way through the 2nd half.

For a rookie who missed almost all of training camp and the preseason, he looks excellent. I do believe he will be the answer at one of our OLB spots. He has work to do against the run, but he's light years ahead of any OLB prospect Bill's ever had on the Patriots at this point.

If you watched it again, then I'll take your word for it. But from first glance watching it last night, Henne seemed like he had a good amount of time standing back there to throw.