Caldwell or Gaffney - Who would you rather have?

[Keegs]

Here's this for you:

If it wasn't for Reche (and Troy) bailing out the Pats against the Chargers, we wouldn't be talking about any of this.

Both Brady and Troy have had their share of "chokes" the past couple of years.

To start:

-Brady's INT to Champ Bailey
-Brown's muffed punt
-Brady not seeing Caldwell open for 11 seconds
-Brown getting called for offensive pass interference to kill a drive
-Brown running the wrong route, almost causing a Sanders INT on 3rd and short
-Brady throwing the game-clinching pick to Jackson

Caldwell's catch was nice but nothing fantastic...most wide receivers in the league would have caught it, and the majority of those would not have ran out of bounds afterwards.

The rest of what you typed has nothing to do with why Caldwell is a better option than Gaffney.

 

[pats1]

your stats?

you mean the stats from Gaffney's first couple games on this team?

That would be incorrect. I took Gaffney's 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th games with the team.

The same stats that compare Caldwell's 6th 7th, and 8th games?

the stats that mean nothing because my entire argument is based on playoff performances?

Fantastic. You're argument is "only based on playoff performances."

You only continue to make my point. It's getting rather comical, in fact.

yeah what an argument you got there, fantastic job with the stats.

my god you are getting desperate.

Now i have to argue with you about why you can't compare Brady "choking" to Caldwell choking. Unbelievable.

Just take a step back and realize what you are doing.....

I suggest you do the same.

The second you said "He makes those 2 big catches, Pats have another ring simple as that," you lost any shred of credibility you had.

 

[pats1]

Caldwell's catch was nice but nothing fantastic...most wide receivers in the league would have caught it, and the majority of those would not have ran out of bounds afterwards.

The rest of what you typed has nothing to do with why Caldwell is a better option than Gaffney.

Again, you're missing the point. Actually, I'd say you just have selective amnesia. You want to look at Caldwell's drops in a vacuum and try to make a case that those make him less of a dependable player than Gaffney.

It's comical.

 

[Keegs]

Again, you're missing the point. Actually, I'd say you just have selective amnesia. You want to look at Caldwell's drops in a vacuum and try to make a case that those make him less of a dependable player than Gaffney.

It's comical.

My argument is based off of the playoffs. My argument is based on Reche and Jabar's playoff performances.

So don't be bitter that this doesn't fit well with your argument that really isn't even relevant.

The only thing comical is you comparing Tom Brady to Reche Caldwell in terms of being a clutch player.

You should be ashamed of yourself for doing that. My, how low you've gone.

 

[Keegs]

Again, you're missing the point. Actually, I'd say you just have selective amnesia. You want to look at Caldwell's drops in a vacuum and try to make a case that those make him less of a dependable player than Gaffney.

It's comical.

No, i look at all of the playoff games this last year.

This is like the 5th time i've had to say that to you. Why do you keep ignoring this?
Could it be because you are desperate?

Gaffney outperformed Reche in all playoff games this past year.

Reche choked HUGE twice.
Gaffney bailed him out once.

Gaffney is the better option.

Now back to you unfairly comparing their regular season stats..........

 

[pats1]

No, i look at all of the playoff games this last year.

This is like the 5th time i've had to say that to you. Why do you keep ignoring this?
Could it be because you are desperate?

Gaffney outperformed Reche in all playoff games this past year.

Reche choked HUGE twice.
Gaffney bailed him out once.

Gaffney is the better option.

Now back to you unfairly comparing their regular season stats..........

My argument is based off of the playoffs. My argument is based on Reche and Jabar's playoff performances.

So don't be bitter that this doesn't fit well with your argument that really isn't even relevant.

The only thing comical is you comparing Tom Brady to Reche Caldwell in terms of being a clutch player.

You should be ashamed of yourself for doing that. My, how low you've gone.

Well done, Keegs.

Therefore, I have one question for you:

What point are you trying to make?





















"Unfairly comparing regular season stats" :chuckles gleefully:

 

[Keegs]

Well done, Keegs.

Therefore, I have one question for you:

What point are you trying to make?

I'm lost chief.

Both posts were about Reche, Jabar, and their playoff performances

 

[pats1]

I'm lost chief.

Both posts were about Reche, Jabar, and their playoff performances

Yes, congratulations.

What point are you trying to make by making this comparison?

 

[Keegs]

Yes, congratulations.

What point are you trying to make by making this comparison?

my point was just that Gaffney is better for this team than Caldwell... My point was based off their playoff performances. I would rather have Gaffney.
Unfortunately we'll never be able to make a fair comparison based on their regular season play because this year they'll both be burried underneath the depth chart. Then again, who knows, Stallworth and Moss are not the most reliable WRs.

I don't like the comparisons of regular season stats with the Pro-Caldwell side conveniently forgetting to mention how long each WR was on the team and how much they played, or if they started.

The only times i ever even brought brady into it was when Tom and Reche were horribly compared and i had to say something about it as a response.
Is that what you are asking about?

Can we take a day off now?

I'm done with this for a while, unless that brain surgeon on your side comes back, he was ridiculous.

 

[pats1]

My point was just that Gaffney is better for this team than Caldwell...My point was based off their playoff performances.

I rest my case.











And sit back down laughing uncontrollably.

 

[Keegs]

I rest my case.











And sit back down laughing uncontrollably.

I make fair comparisons.

You and your buddies leave out info and make unfair comparisons, dragging this debate into discussions about Tom Brady's past playoff performances.

86 people agree with me about Gaffney.

that must sting.

 

[grapedog]

Caldwell...

 

[pats1]

I make fair comparisons.

Please excuse me for a moment.











Ahem. What was that you were saying again? Something about you saying Gaffney was preferable over Caldwell because his touchdown catch versus Caldwell's drops? Or was it something about how you understood my point about how the Patriots operate using the largest body of data possible? Or was it another form of your Keegsian waffle tactics?


Or was it you still not getting my point with the whole Brady thing?

 

[Keegs]

Please excuse me for a moment.











Ahem. What was that you were saying again? Something about you saying Gaffney was preferable over Caldwell because his touchdown catch versus Caldwell's drops? Or was it something about how you understood my point about how the Patriots operate using the largest body of data possible? Or was it another form of your Keegsian waffle tactics?


Or was it you still not getting my point with the whole Brady thing?

For the 700th time. (it's funny how you continue to ignore it... a strong sign of desperation on your part).
write this down somewhere, for the love of god:
Gaffney outperformed Caldwell in the entire postseason

Where Caldwell choked bigtime, Gaffney excelled.

these are facts. And i know they drive you up a wall because you've been in a state of panic since the beginning of this debate trying to come up with something, anything, to disprove this.

And the best you come up with is........

1.) unfairly Comparing Reche and Jabar's regular season performances
2.) Saying Brady "choked" too. (not sure what the hell that proves)
3.) Laughing.
4.) ignoring my fair playoff comparison and putting words in my mouth

did i forget anything?

Do you really wanna keep going?

 

[pats1]

For the 700th time. (it's funny how you continue to ignore it... a strong sign of desperation on your part).
write this down somewhere, for the love of god:
Gaffney outperformed Caldwell in the entire postseason

Where Caldwell choked bigtime, Gaffney excelled.

These are facts. And i know they drive you up a wall because you've been in a state of panic since the beginning of this debate trying to come up with something, anything, to disprove this.

I'm not denying that Gaffney outperformed Caldwell in the postseason.

However:

As a minor point, I do not agree with the extent of the outperformance you proport.

As a major point, I do not agree with the extrapolations you make from that. As soon as you try to make that into anything more than it is, you immediately lose credibility. And since you've done that countless times throughout this thread, it's gotten to a pretty damn comical point.

 

[brady199]

For the 700th time. (it's funny how you continue to ignore it... a strong sign of desperation on your part).
write this down somewhere, for the love of god:
Gaffney outperformed Caldwell in the entire postseason

Where Caldwell choked bigtime, Gaffney excelled.

these are facts. And i know they drive you up a wall because you've been in a state of panic since the beginning of this debate trying to come up with something, anything, to disprove this.

And the best you come up with is........

1.) unfairly Comparing Reche and Jabar's regular season performances
2.) Saying Brady "choked" too. (not sure what the hell that proves)
3.) Laughing.
4.) ignoring my fair playoff comparison and putting words in my mouth

did i forget anything?

Do you really wanna keep going?

So if Welker has more catches and yards than Moss after three weeks are you going to tell me that he is more of a force on the field.

Statistics are weak for making arguments about who is better, if you remember going into the afc champ. game, caldwell and gaffney had way more catches yards and td's than wayne and harrision in the two previous post season games played, you wouldn't suggest that the two of them are better than the colts wr's, would you? of course not.

There is a reason we were able to get Gaffney in the middle of the season.

J. Wiggins had a great post season in 2001, where was he in 2002, oh yea the pats replaced him.

CALDWELL IS THE MAN.:rocker:

 

[brady199]

and by the way concensus is not a fact based exercise.

of course nobody knows that better than BB

 

[MetalBleachers]

This is an amazing thread, mostly because it has no real end in sight.

Case in point: http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=latestnewsdetail&pid=26330&pcid=44

See: Caldwell/Gaffney comparisons.

All I can add is, if we're arguing this much over a potential 4/5 receiver, life is good.

 

[Keegs]

So if Welker has more catches and yards than Moss after three weeks are you going to tell me that he is more of a force on the field.

Statistics are weak for making arguments about who is better, if you remember going into the afc champ. game, caldwell and gaffney had way more catches yards and td's than wayne and harrision in the two previous post season games played, you wouldn't suggest that the two of them are better than the colts wr's, would you? of course not.

There is a reason we were able to get Gaffney in the middle of the season.

J. Wiggins had a great post season in 2001, where was he in 2002, oh yea the pats replaced him.

CALDWELL IS THE MAN.:rocker:

If Moss drops 2 easy balls in the afc championship game and blows the game for us, (if Reche hasn't again already ), and Welker excells in the playoffs (like Jabar), I would prefer Welker to Moss.

what the hell good is a guy if he's decent in the regular season but makes a poopie in his pants in the AFC Championship game?

Of course other players made mistakes against the colts, Brady, the defense, pretty much everybody, but none were as ridiculously avoidable as Reche's.

Fred-EX could have caught those balls with one hand.

 

[sieglo]

FWIW, I re-watched the Pats-Chargers game yesterday. One thing that was pretty clear to me is that Gaffney was not able to get good separation throughout the game. He picked up the majority of his yardage on incredible laserbeam throws by Brady that were in many cases threaded through a couple defenders. Throws that Brady probably would never have even tried if the Pats weren't down 14-3 with 1:00 left in the half at the time.

Meanwhile, Caldwell was working against the Charger's #1 CB and having a solid game that left them wondering why they let him go in the first place.