borges vitriol on neal dealings...

[RayClay]

I wrote this on the Patriots mailing list.

"Does Stephen Neal's agent work for the Patriots??Does he not know that the Pats are way under the cap??Why agree to a deal that just sets Neal up to be cut in 2010?? How many 33-year old guards will be making a $2.5 million salary in 2010?? IMO, Neal should either gotten a front-loaded deal in terms of salaries or have paid the $6.9 million in salaries evenly throughout the deal?? Why do players agree to such back-loaded deals with teams that have a lot of cap space??

Who was Hurst working for?? Neal or BB?? IMO, agents should either represent front office people or players, not both. There is an inherent conflict of interest. According to Neal, he wanted to be closer to California and yet Neal did not visit the 49ers, Raiders, Seahawks, Broncos, or the Chargers. That is curious. It is legitimate to ask if Hurst did the best for his client.

Aren't players allowed to play where they want?

Why are you upset when the Patriots get to keep one of their players?

They've lost many.

Certainly the writer here used his column to flog the prospects of Givens who shared the same agent as Borges.

This is one for the good guys. Why so sad?

 

[RayClay]

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=33677

Interesting thread.

 

[Miguel]

You are right in bringing this up...but do you think it is the ONLY one like that in the league???

No. I never said that it was.

 

[Miguel]

Why are you upset when the Patriots get to keep one of their players?Why so sad?

I am neither upset or sad. I just feel that it is legitimate to question whether or not Hurst did the best for Neal. IMO, the deal signed by Neal is a great deal for the Patriots and a lousy deal for Neal.

 

[Flying Fungi]

I am neither upset or sad. I just feel that it is legitimate to question whether or not Hurst did the best for Neal. IMO, the deal signed by Neal is a great deal for the Patriots and a lousy deal for Neal.

Objectivity is a rare thing I fear...

 

[Pats726]

No. I never said that it was.

No..you didn't..I agree... Is there a solution??? There's a kettle of worms in opening all this up....some investagative reporter could do an interesting piece..but I really think there will be many ties to many teams and players. This one we know about..it is the many that we do not that will be interesting. SOme in the sport must know more about them...if it were so bad..wouldn't the CBA want clauses about it??

 

[RayClay]

I am neither upset or sad. I just feel that it is legitimate to question whether or not Hurst did the best for Neal. IMO, the deal signed by Neal is a great deal for the Patriots and a lousy deal for Neal.

That may be true. However, our two main sportswriters are using their positions to inflate the salaries of all our players and acting as defacto agents attempting to destroy our team so they can say I told you so, I won't shed tears for the players.

Fact is, they can all be paid double what their worth based solely on the fact they were lucky enough to land in this organization in the first place.

Is it too hard to believe that having seen the kind of money that is out there, (as Neal reportedly did), a player might decide to take slightly less because he likes the organization?

Perhaps Neal told his agent, I only want to play for the Pats or on the west coast. Let's gauge the market and see if we can get a better deal from the Patriots.

 

[RayClay]

If we're talking about unethical agents, how about the Postons.

They lie to their clients to get them to switch teams so they get a commission, regardless of whether it's in their clients best interest.

Then they high ball and antagonize teams so much that their clients this year are all unsigned while the silly money is dissipating.

And how about the phony David Givens buzz complete with hacking a website and Ron Borges creating a fictional world where every team in football has to have David givens. Neglecting to mention Brad Blank is also his agent.

I know it's hard to believe in today's world, but some people are not about wringing every last nickle out of a situation. There can be other factors.

 

[Miguel]

Is it too hard to believe that having seen the kind of money that is out there, (as Neal reportedly did), a player might decide to take slightly less because he likes the organization?

No.

I still think that the deal is a lousy one for Neal.

 

[Miguel]

Then they high ball and antagonize teams so much that their clients this year are all unsigned while the silly money is dissipating.

Tell that to Julian Peterson

I know it's hard to believe in today's world, but some people are not about wringing every last nickle out of a situation. There can be other factors.

Even taking consideration those other factors I still think that the deal is a lousy one for Neal.

 

[RayClay]

Tell that to Julian Peterson


Even taking consideration those other factors I still think that the deal is a lousy one for Neal.

Just for the sake of argument, were Givens, McGinest, Andruzzi, Woody, Patten or Ashworth worth the money or years, (McGinest), they signed for if they hadn't been associated with the Patriots?

Be honest now.

 

[PF1996]

Miguel ...what other offers were out there?

That makes you characterise the deal Neal signed with the Pats as "lousy"? It may not be the absolutely best scenario for the player (no NFL deal is) but unless you have the specifics of other offers by other teams, then I do not see how you can "objectively" claim that Neal's deal is "lousy".

 

[Miguel]

That makes you characterise the deal Neal signed with the Pats as "lousy"? It may not be the absolutely best scenario for the player (no NFL deal is) but unless you have the specifics of other offers by other teams, then I do not see how you can "objectively" claim that Neal's deal is "lousy".

I do not see the other deals in order to to give an opinion on the structure of Neal's deal.

 

[Miguel]

Be honest now.

As opposed to when???

 

[Miguel]

Just for the sake of argument, were Givens, McGinest, Andruzzi, Woody, Patten or Ashworth worth the money or years, (McGinest), they signed for if they hadn't been associated with the Patriots?

I was not commenting on whether or not Neal was worth the money. I am commenting on the structure of the deal.

 

[PF1996]

Okay, I read the article and I'm confused by several things in it...perhaps someone can answer.

Everyone keeps asserting that Cornrich is Belichick's agent yet the strongest "evidence" I've seen is that he DID work for Belichick. If he's NOT currently Belichick's agent, why are people continually stating/implying that he is and where would there be a "conflict of interest"? Cornrich is not involved in these negotiations and it's rather illogical to presume that individual attorneys would risk their reputations to help Belichick retain his free agents.

Borges also stated that Adam asserted/implied that Hurst wasn't doing his job yet I read an article where Adam stated that Hurst was never his "agent", just his "lawyer" and that he, ADAM, was acting as his own agent. Which is accurate? Also, how many teams were looking for a kicker? That Adam signed the first offer he got from Indy without pursuing other options EVEN with a new agent seems to suggest there wasn't a large market for his services.

Unless Casserly's assertions came PRIOR to the terms of the contract Neal signed becoming public then they are really useless as a basis for any claim. It's rather easy to claim that one would have offered a deal higher than that which was signed by the free agent. The Pats could also "claim" they "would have" offered Adam more money if they had been given the opportunity. Quite irrelevant.

Also ironic that prior to free agency, most everyone expected that Neal would be easily re-signed, at a reasonable price, by the Patriots yet now that it has happened, people are questioning the signing as though Neal is a Pro-Bowl right tackle.

 

[RayClay]

I was not commenting on whether or not Neal was worth the money. I am commenting on the structure of the deal.

You've got me there. I know nothing about how contracts are structured.

I thought you were saying we didn't pay him enough money.

 

[lobster]

Borges ascribing ulterior motives to any player's agent was totally improper! I also thought there was some "baiting" of Steven Neal going on in the article. By "baiting" I mean the writer is trying to goad the player into making some outlandish response that the media can use to sell more of their papers or whatever.

One great thing about Mike Reiss is he never engages in "baiting" a player like that. Players would do much better to talk to Mike instead of types like Borges, and there are others who will engage in the same thing.

 

[lobster]

If we're talking about unethical agents, how about the Postons. They lie to their clients to get them to switch teams so they get a commission, regardless of whether it's in their clients best interest.

Then they high ball and antagonize teams so much that their clients this year are all unsigned while the silly money is dissipating.

You do hate to think of some of the young players preparing for the draft signing up with the Poston's. These young players don't realize that some clubs won't consider them if they are represented by the Poston's!

 

[PF1996]

Then your statement isn't "objective" because an NFL deal can only be described as "lousy" in comparison to other offers. The majority, if not all, NFL deals are essentially "lousy" since they are not fully guaranteed contracts. Nate Burleston's deal is a contract for 49 million yet, if what I've read is correct, he's only guaranteed about 15 million. If David Terrell were to be signed to a 3 year deal for 2 million with only 1 year really guaranteed...such a deal could only be characterised as "lousy" if there were better offers from other teams. Otherwise, it's his market value. Unless you KNOW otherwise (i.e. that other teams were offering MORE money or the same money with a better structure), then Neal's deal is illustrative of his market value, regardless of what HE would have preferred to have (i.e. a fully guaranteed contract from the Chargers). Again, I really do not understand why you would, without any knowledge of other offers, question the integrity of Neal's agent simply because he happens to be employed by the same firm as (from what I've read) Belichick's FORMER agent.