Bill vs new regime

[vicspats]

I honestly don't think the approach to the offseason would have been that different. The specific targets probably would've been different, because Bill wouldn't dream of paying a receiver what they offered Ridley. But with that much money to spend, and a mandate to spend a lot due to salary cap rules, Bill would've had to spent on somebody too. Instead of giving Onwenu his deal, perhaps BB gives Dugger that money, as an example

Agree. But onwenu is a versatile player. Guard and tackle, plus being reliable and got the most part injury free. I honestly feel he would have gotten his contract with Bill.

 

[Wozzy]

Agree. But onwenu is a versatile player. Guard and tackle, plus being reliable and got the most part injury free. I honestly feel he would have gotten his contract with Bill.

The Patriots under BB always spent to the cap, the notion that now it would be different because BB isn't here to prove them wrong has the haters creating hypothetical situations in their mind that goes against everything that came before. Consider the source...

 

[Wozzy]

A lot of guys? Defense maybe but WR is a dumpster fire. And besides Smith at tackle, mostly crap leftover.

It was mostly crap before free agency started...

I'd take Mike Williams on a one year vet minimum show me deal... otherwise draft WR's, you want them young and spry, not old geriatric guys who miss games and are overpaid.

 

[venecol]

So with the amount of money Bill would have had this year .. he wouldn’t have kept his own guys? He drafted them, worked with them, brought them along. Now all of a sudden with all this cash they would be gone ? These aren’t all massive contracts , plenty of one year deals.

Bill never extended a player drafted in the top 3 rounds since 2013. That's 10 straight years. There's your answer.

 

[jmt57]

Is it unrealistic to expect your team to try to improve its roster every year?

I didn't say that. Of course it is realistic to expect your team to improve. Especially when they just finished with a record so bad that they own the #3 pick in the upcoming draft.

My suggestion is that it is a bit too early to jump to conclusions.

So what do we want the game plan to be? A focus primarily on the short term? That's great if you are already a playoff contender, looking to win it all next year. In that case trade draft picks for proven veterans, even if they are near the end of their career and on the final year of their contract.

That approach is counter productive for teams like the Patriots, and anybody else in the top ten of the draft order. Yes, you still need to field a team, and yes, you need some proven quality so that your new rookie QB doesn't get killed. But trading away draft picks for somebody who will only be on the roster for two seasons doesn't make a lot of sense to me in this situation.

Spending $180 million for 35 year old Kirk Cousins does not make sense for this team.
Spending $92 million for a WR who ranked 25th in receiving yards, and has major off-field issues doesn't make sense either.

With the salary cap increasing more than expected, more teams were able to retain their star players. On top of that the Pats three positions of biggest need - QB, WR, and OT - are also the most highly valued in the NFL. As a result you seldom see top tier players at those positions make it to free agency. And when they do, teams have to overpay for them in comparison to what it costs to retain your own.

Hence Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman and Mike Evans never saw free agency. Gabe Davis - while better than any WR on our roster - thrives only as the #2 WR. Even he and his agent recognized that, which means he was never coming to New England. Mike Williams will turn 30 early in the 2024 season and is coming off an ACL injury. I would have liked to see the Pats make the same trade for Keenan Allen that the Bears did, but at age 32, realistically he is just another temporary band aid. Hollywood Brown would have been a nice addition, but it's tough to compete in a bidding war with the Super Bowl champions and Patrick Mahomes as the QB.

Let's also not forget that the Patriots have re-signed several of their own players. As bad as the 2023 roster was, can you imagine what the 2024 roster would look like right now if Onwenu, Henry, Bourne, Dugger, Uche and Jennings had signed elsewhere? Retaining your own may not be as splashy, but even though it is overlooked it is still a vital part of the free agency process.

 

[vicspats]

Bill never extended a player drafted in the top 3 rounds since 2013. That's 10 straight years. There's your answer.

Curious if we ever had this amount of money to play with before ? And not for nothing , there were alot of good players on those teams. If the cupboards are bare like some here say they are, maybe this was the year? All hindsite now I guess

 

[Tunescribe]

Is it unrealistic to expect your team to try to improve its roster every year?

Absolutely not.

Serious question. Would anything have been different if Bill was still here, as far as roster building went during free agency? It 100% feels like Bills fingerprints all over this roster.

One thing that always bugged me about BB's roster management was his habit of losing good players too quickly and easily in free agency. Seeing so many guys re-upped this year seemed unusual in that respect, but the roster still remains thin.

 

[Toofy]

It was definitely a weak market, especially after the teams got so much extra space, and it’s got to be tougher to attract free agents than when they were winning. But I still think they can maximize their spending by getting out ahead on Barmore’s contract, and maybe extend Strange and Stevenson for a couple of years. And try to set themselves up as much as possible for next years free agency. I have no doubt that many will think I’m batshit crazy for saying that, and will say that Kraft will never let them spend, but I don’t believe Kraft is going to tie their hands and make it obvious to everyone that he isn’t willing to spend to win.

Strange .. nah.. unproven. He is on Wynn trajectory for now.

 

[Wozzy]

Bill never extended a player drafted in the top 3 rounds since 2013. That's 10 straight years. There's your answer.

That factoid is only important in the context that many of his picks in the first three rounds signed contracts that made them (at or near) the highest paid players at their respective position.... oh yeah, also they went to 4 SB's and won 3 of them.

Teams that spend like small market teams sustain over long periods, teams that spend and purge have peaks and valleys... but everyone needs to draft well.

 

[vicspats]

Absolutely not.



One thing that always bugged me about BB's roster management was his habit of losing good players too quickly and easily in free agency. Seeing so many guys re-upped this year seemed unusual in that respect, but the roster still remains thin.

Ya? But for years he let players go before they started their downward spiral. Only a handful of players left and did anything on anybody else’s team. Actually having a hard time coming up with many ?

 

[farn]

The time to make a change had arrived & BB was replaced by Mayo. While I have been a huge BB supporter, I agree with the choice to pivot.

Fans are funny. If anyone thinks NE wins six rings - even with the same players - they are fooling themselves. And so, why is all the BB hate spilling over ? I couldn’t care less if every single person at Gillette wanted him dead. He brought the winning.

 

[venecol]

That factoid is only important in the context that many of his picks in the first three rounds signed contracts that made them (at or near) the highest paid players at their respective position.... oh yeah, also they went to 4 SB's and won 3 of them.

Lol, what? There were 24 players in the 1st 3 rounds from 2014 to 2020. Only 1, Thuney, signed a large contract, after he got tagged. The only 2 re-signed to a 2nd contract were from 2020 (Uche & Jennings). Those contracts were both mid.

 

[Tunescribe]

Ya? But for years he let players go before they started their downward spiral. Only a handful of players left and did anything on anybody else’s team. Actually having a hard time coming up with many ?

A couple of these might have involved trades but recently, off the top of my head -- Mason, Thuney, Karras (think how much better off the OL would have been with them still aboard); also Damien Harris, Gilmore, Jakob Johnson, Duron Harmon, Stidham, Brandin Cooks, Elandon Roberts, Akiem Hicks, Logan Ryan, Winovich, Jake Bailey, Malcolm Brown ...

This list is a couple years old but helps illustrate how BB devalued continuity making the roster a turnstile: Past Patriots on NFL 90-man rosters entering 2022

 

[stcjones]

do you think BB as a coach would still be a player draw? If so, then maybe some of the swings and misses become hits... if not then no major differences... but most likely Onwenu would be gone - that was a little bit of an overpay... and its doubtful Dugger would have been tagged... no real reason to do so...

I didn’t see that they had tagged Duggar …big mistake…he’s been great but why tag him? Also yes Onwenu has been solid but definitely a reach….they almost had no choice because of the horrible state of affairs at OL

 

[stcjones]

You guys upset we didn't overpay for Ridley? he's been unreliable and got a ton of guaranteed money. I'd would have liked to have him but with that contract Tenn is taking a chance, maybe it works out but the Pats did try to get him. Who else did they miss out on? Until we get back on track this isn't the most desirable place to play.

Not upset at all…agree with you

 

[stcjones]

It was definitely a weak market, especially after the teams got so much extra space, and it’s got to be tougher to attract free agents than when they were winning. But I still think they can maximize their spending by getting out ahead on Barmore’s contract, and maybe extend Strange and Stevenson for a couple of years. And try to set themselves up as much as possible for next years free agency. I have no doubt that many will think I’m batshit crazy for saying that, and will say that Kraft will never let them spend, but I don’t believe Kraft is going to tie their hands and make it obvious to everyone that he isn’t willing to spend to win.

Not sure about extending Strange….inconsistent at best.

 

[stcjones]

It’s just frustrating cause the financial resources are there. Banking on juju is risky to say the least, Thorton might not make it through pre season.

This is Thornton last season to prove he isn’t a Bust….he can’t stay on the field and has been a major disappointment thus far….maybe new coach and QB will make a difference but unlikely

 

[Pape]

I didn’t see that they had tagged Duggar …big mistake…he’s been great but why tag him? Also yes Onwenu has been solid but definitely a reach….they almost had no choice because of the horrible state of affairs at OL

Transition tagged Dugger... Who really hasn't drawn any interest... Is that the result of the tag? Or have we over valued him?

 

[Ivan]

This is Thornton last season to prove he isn’t a Bust….he can’t stay on the field and has been a major disappointment thus far….maybe new coach and QB will make a difference but unlikely

Might as well give him a shot, at this point there is no harm in findi in h out if he can turn it around with Van Prelt and Brissett. It’s not like he’s keeping superior talent off the roster.

 

[Ivan]

Not sure about extending Strange….inconsistent at best.

I haven’t had any problem with his play, just wish he was on the field more,