Bill and Bob's Excellence Adventure

[1960Pats]

After thinking about this long and hard I've come to a conclusion about my feelings if there's a breakup. At first I wanted Bob to make as sweet a deal as he can but I'm not sure now. If these two men break up then it needs to be amicable from both sides, just as it was when Bill and Bob's Roast Beef started.

Both Bill and Bob should be grateful for what the other gave them. Bill got full control of an NYFL team for 25 years and Bob got a 20 year dynasty. If either of them screws over the other I won't be happy. I'll be even less happy if they don't split up though.

Am I alone on this?

 

[Hyped]

Dunno if you are alone. Not sure I want a split myself. Just because I don't think there's a better coach out there...and we would be drafting based on our CURRENT personnel department's recommendations. We can't gut the personnel department until April...no matter who we bring in.

And if they have to split up....I want Kraft to explore getting a pick out of it...I mean...I love BB, but if we can get a pick out of it...that rock needs to be looked under.

 

[upstater1]

My reason for not wanting a breakup is simple: some of the New England radio guys think going 4-12 means you're bottoming out and this is the perfect time to make a break and begin anew.

I feel 100% the opposite of this and it doesn't necessarily have to do with Belichick. This is one of the youngest teams in the league. 53 new players have joined the roster AFTER Mac Jones joined. Barely anyone is left before that. This was supposed tob be a 3 year rebuild but it was hurt badly by the QB and injury situation.

You've effectively given up on the rebuild process if you get rid of the coaching staff now. The best players from the current team will not be around in 4 years if you begin a rebuild again.

Will Onwenu, Rham, Henry, Judon, Wise, Jon Jones, Peppers be around? Will Barmore be at the end of his great years?

A whole heap of resources will need to be expended. Why? Because this is still a bend-but-no-break defense. The players are still doing the same things they always did on D. Unless you bring in a guy with the same scheme, many of these players are useless. For instance: Peppers, Dugger, Tavai, Bentley, Mapu, Godchuax, Keion White, Jennings. No 3-4, no man. Blow up the defense.

Either you see the rebuild through or you blow it up. Abandoning it now means 3 more years of pain.

Also, I don't see how a breakup will be amicable. Belichick will want to be paid. And he certainly won't want Kraft controlling where he goes next. Maybe Belichick agrees to take $10m less with no strings attached. We'll see.

 

[venecol]

I feel 100% the opposite of this and it doesn't necessarily have to do with Belichick. This is one of the youngest teams in the league. 53 new players have joined the roster AFTER Mac Jones joined. Barely anyone is left before that. This was supposed tob be a 3 year rebuild but it was hurt badly by the QB and injury situation.

This is year 3. What am I missing?

You've effectively given up on the rebuild process if you get rid of the coaching staff now. The best players from the current team will not be around in 4 years if you begin a rebuild again.

Having to find a franchise QB means you're starting a rebuild.

Will Onwenu, Rham, Henry, Judon, Wise, Jon Jones, Peppers be around? Will Barmore be at the end of his great years?

Lol, you say this is a young team but the guys in bold are 29 or in their 30s. Peppers is 28. Most of these guys won't be around in 4 years anyway. Barmore is 24, he continues to ball, he'll be around. So will Onwenu. Not sure about Rham. RBs, you know?

A whole heap of resources will need to be expended. Why? Because this is still a bend-but-no-break defense. The players are still doing the same things they always did on D. Unless you bring in a guy with the same scheme, many of these players are useless. For instance: Peppers, Dugger, Tavai, Bentley, Mapu, Godchuax, Keion White, Jennings. No 3-4, no man. Blow up the defense.

Anyone that fits in the new scheme (which could be similar) will remain. It'll be up to the new GM to decide based on cap situation. I don't know why you say the rookies are useless. I think guys in bold are gone though.

Either you see the rebuild through or you blow it up. Abandoning it now means 3 more years of pain.

Yea, the so-called rebuild is going so well.
Blow it up!
We just need: QB1, WR1, WR2, LT, TE1, TE2, RG, RB2, OL depth, FS, Edge.

 

[h0c2000]

 

[raduray]

Great partnership that has passed its time. I'd like to see an amicable parting, but Kraft can't sacrifice the future just to keep Bill happy. If Bill wants to make it ugly, so be it.

 

[RIpats88]

This is year 3. What am I missing?


Having to find a franchise QB means you're starting a rebuild.


Lol, you say this is a young team but the guys in bold are 29 or in their 30s. Peppers is 28. Most of these guys won't be around in 4 years anyway. Barmore is 24, he continues to ball, he'll be around. So will Onwenu. Not sure about Rham. RBs, you know?



Anyone that fits in the new scheme (which could be similar) will remain. It'll be up to the new GM to decide based on cap situation. I don't know why you say the rookies are useless. I think guys in bold are gone though.


Yea, the so-called rebuild is going so well.
Blow it up!
We just need: QB1, WR1, WR2, LT, TE1, TE2, RG, RB2, OL depth, FS, Edge.

Not sure what successful rebuild has a team getting worse each year….

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

Its clear best possible outcome
Bill agrees to give up GM duties and stays as head coach until he breaks Shula’s record
Kraft brings in experienced personnel director (eg Ziegler, Lombardi, Pioli)
Bill focuses on coaching
Kraft come out smelling like roses.

 

[Calhoun44]

My reason for not wanting a breakup is simple: some of the New England radio guys think going 4-12 means you're bottoming out and this is the perfect time to make a break and begin anew.

I feel 100% the opposite of this and it doesn't necessarily have to do with Belichick. This is one of the youngest teams in the league. 53 new players have joined the roster AFTER Mac Jones joined. Barely anyone is left before that. This was supposed tob be a 3 year rebuild but it was hurt badly by the QB and injury situation.

You've effectively given up on the rebuild process if you get rid of the coaching staff now. The best players from the current team will not be around in 4 years if you begin a rebuild again.

Will Onwenu, Rham, Henry, Judon, Wise, Jon Jones, Peppers be around? Will Barmore be at the end of his great years?

A whole heap of resources will need to be expended. Why? Because this is still a bend-but-no-break defense. The players are still doing the same things they always did on D. Unless you bring in a guy with the same scheme, many of these players are useless. For instance: Peppers, Dugger, Tavai, Bentley, Mapu, Godchuax, Keion White, Jennings. No 3-4, no man. Blow up the defense.

Either you see the rebuild through or you blow it up. Abandoning it now means 3 more years of pain.

Also, I don't see how a breakup will be amicable. Belichick will want to be paid. And he certainly won't want Kraft controlling where he goes next. Maybe Belichick agrees to take $10m less with no strings attached. We'll see.

This makes a lot of sense. I agree with you.

They have a great coach and unfortunately mis-judged the QB position, it happens, try again and get it right. I'd be disappointed if they give up on the progress they have made with the youth movement. They are coming into their own and with a competent QB and a strong OL, we will be happy Patriots fans again. I can almost hear people singing Kumbaya already.

 

[Boomer B]

This makes a lot of sense. I agree with you.

They have a great coach and unfortunately mis-judged the QB position, it happens, try again and get it right. I'd be disappointed if they give up on the progress they have made with the youth movement. They are coming into their own and with a competent QB and a strong OL, we will be happy Patriots fans again. I can almost hear people singing Kumbaya already.

Misjudged the QB position, the LT position, the RT position, WR 1 position, WR 2 position, TE position, kicker position, ….

 

[Calhoun44]

Misjudged the QB position, the LT position, the RT position, WR 1 position, WR 2 position, TE position, kicker position, ….

They are fine, a decisive QB can mask a lot of problems (not all of them). If a couple guys come back next year from injuries, a draft pick or two pan out, and a FA or two contribute they will be a playoff team. The defense this year is probably top 5 if they had a competent offense to put pressure on the other teams, and that defense will be even better if they have a bit of luck next year. They lost so many starters and important back-ups early in the season, their luck will change next year. I say give BB one more year to get us back on track, if he doesn't guide us toward the right path, then we move on. Rather keep the GOAT one or two years too long than have to start all over. Hopefully he wants to stick around.

 

[Calhoun44]

Misjudged the QB position, the LT position, the RT position, WR 1 position, WR 2 position, TE position, kicker position, ….

Kicker position? That is the least of our problems. I think he will be replaced by someone, or he'll get his siht together and figure it out. Also, if the offense had been competent there would have been less pressure to make so many important kicks. But no excuses, he is a pro and should be kicking better.

 

[venecol]

They are fine, a decisive QB can mask a lot of problems (not all of them). If a couple guys come back next year from injuries, a draft pick or two pan out, and a FA or two contribute they will be a playoff team. The defense this year is probably top 5 if they had a competent offense to put pressure on the other teams, and that defense will be even better if they have a bit of luck next year. They lost so many starters and important back-ups early in the season, their luck will change next year. I say give BB one more year to get us back on track, if he doesn't guide us toward the right path, then we move on. Rather keep the GOAT one or two years too long than have to start all over. Hopefully he wants to stick around.

You've been saying the exact same thing for 3 years. You'll continue to say the same thing for the next 10 years regardless of the results. You're that kind of fan. That's fine.

 

[Boomer B]

They are fine, a decisive QB can mask a lot of problems (not all of them). If a couple guys come back next year from injuries, a draft pick or two pan out, and a FA or two contribute they will be a playoff team. The defense this year is probably top 5 if they had a competent offense to put pressure on the other teams, and that defense will be even better if they have a bit of luck next year. They lost so many starters and important back-ups early in the season, their luck will change next year. I say give BB one more year to get us back on track, if he doesn't guide us toward the right path, then we move on. Rather keep the GOAT one or two years too long than have to start all over. Hopefully he wants to stick around.

Their talent base on O is not fine, it’s actually very far from fine.

 

[Calhoun44]

Their talent base on O is not fine, it’s actually very far from fine.

What I mean by "fine" is; they are not far away from being a playoff contender. Of course the offense this year struggled with terrible QB play and lots of injuries on the O-line and at the WR position. BB will be the best coach to take a crack at correcting the issues if he wants to stick around.

 

[1960Pats]

Dunno if you are alone. Not sure I want a split myself. Just because I don't think there's a better coach out there...and we would be drafting based on our CURRENT personnel department's recommendations. We can't gut the personnel department until April...no matter who we bring in.

And if they have to split up....I want Kraft to explore getting a pick out of it...I mean...I love BB, but if we can get a pick out of it...that rock needs to be looked under.

This is exactly where I was at first. I wanted Bob to get as much as he could for Bill. But now I feel differently. Both of them made out like bandits the last 20 years and I'm hoping they're both grateful for that and there's a little give and take.

 

[1960Pats]

My reason for not wanting a breakup is simple: some of the New England radio guys think going 4-12 means you're bottoming out and this is the perfect time to make a break and begin anew.

I feel 100% the opposite of this and it doesn't necessarily have to do with Belichick. This is one of the youngest teams in the league. 53 new players have joined the roster AFTER Mac Jones joined. Barely anyone is left before that. This was supposed tob be a 3 year rebuild but it was hurt badly by the QB and injury situation.

You've effectively given up on the rebuild process if you get rid of the coaching staff now. The best players from the current team will not be around in 4 years if you begin a rebuild again.

Will Onwenu, Rham, Henry, Judon, Wise, Jon Jones, Peppers be around? Will Barmore be at the end of his great years?

A whole heap of resources will need to be expended. Why? Because this is still a bend-but-no-break defense. The players are still doing the same things they always did on D. Unless you bring in a guy with the same scheme, many of these players are useless. For instance: Peppers, Dugger, Tavai, Bentley, Mapu, Godchuax, Keion White, Jennings. No 3-4, no man. Blow up the defense.

Either you see the rebuild through or you blow it up. Abandoning it now means 3 more years of pain.

Also, I don't see how a breakup will be amicable. Belichick will want to be paid. And he certainly won't want Kraft controlling where he goes next. Maybe Belichick agrees to take $10m less with no strings attached. We'll see.

I've been up front form early on that I'm not a coaches guy. I'm a players guy. And Bill has stripped many of the greats from this team so the problem for me has been compounded. But this thread is more about how the breakup should go IF there is one.

These two together have made hundreds of millions and even billions off of their relationship. They need to work it out to the benefit of everyone.

 

[1960Pats]

Its clear best possible outcome
Bill agrees to give up GM duties and stays as head coach until he breaks Shula’s record
Kraft brings in experienced personnel director (eg Ziegler, Lombardi, Pioli)
Bill focuses on coaching
Kraft come out smelling like roses.

The best outcome for whom?

And why is it important that Bill get's to break Shula's record? At the rate he's going he'll have to be here for 3 or 4 more years to accomplish that.

They both come out smelling like roses if they have an amicable split.

 

[1960Pats]

This makes a lot of sense. I agree with you.

They have a great coach and unfortunately mis-judged the QB position, it happens, try again and get it right. I'd be disappointed if they give up on the progress they have made with the youth movement. They are coming into their own and with a competent QB and a strong OL, we will be happy Patriots fans again. I can almost hear people singing Kumbaya already.

A four year run of getting worse isn't progress.

 

[1960Pats]

You've been saying the exact same thing for 3 years. You'll continue to say the same thing for the next 10 years regardless of the results. You're that kind of fan. That's fine.

I agree. There's nothing wrong with being a positive fan and C44 is one of the best. I probably would have been the same way if Bill didn't get rid of all of our top players over money with nothing to replace them.

But now that the end MAY be near I just want it to end well. I don't need either of those men to go on the attack because they didn't get what they want at the end. They both need to be grateful and gracious.