Beating Giants in 2 weeks - it's all good

[#56300ex]

I'd like to see Pay a tons little brother get a good beat down. He and his daddy wanted him in NY to be on a high profile team with plenty of media. They got their wish, IMO not enough bad can happen to his career.

I agree with every word. Every time I see him he looks like a little kid pouting and about to cry.

 

[Tommysgirl]

I agree with every word. Every time I see him he looks like a little kid pouting and about to cry.

Sometimes, I feel like he doesn't even want to play football. He just did it because he was supposed to. I could be totally wrong, just an impression I get sometimes.

 

[Brooklyn Nick]

I've watched the Giants since training camp, I know their roster as well as most casual Giants fans. The Bills are a better team than the Giants. I'll take JP Losman or Trent Edwards over Eli Manning on his best day. Aside from a couple outstanding defensive linemen, Jeremy Shockey, and Plaxico Burress, the Giants team is purely average, if not below average. Talk about the AFC East, the NFC is an absolute laughingstock which is the sole reason the Giants even have a chance at being in the playoffs; in their only games against a contender this year they got their butts kicked up and down the field. They've been knocked out in the Wild Card round the past three years in the playoffs.

The Giants are not as good a team as the Bills. I'd put my money on the Bills this weekend and wouldn't look back.

The Giants are good because they have one of the best o-line, d-line combos in the NFL. Not because they have (had) Shockey, not because they have Burress, who has been dinged up all season. It appears to me that maybe you only watch football through the eyes of a fantasy football fan. The Giants win games because they win in the trenches more often then not.

They are good because they lead the NFL in sacks, get pressure on QB on a fairly consistent basis, and can run block with just about anyone. The running game has not missed a beat without Tiki, both Jacobs and Ward are averaging around 5 ypc. Jacobs can rush for 1,000 yards still this year despite missing the better part of 6 games (missed 5 full games and 3/4 of another one)

The Giants will beat the Bills. And theyll do it because theyll dominate the line of scrimmage. The Bills are the biggest mirage .500 football team Ive ever seen. 29th in total offense, 30th in total defense, they have absolutely no redeeming qualities as a football team to hang their hat on at this point. They are where they are because they beat the Jets twice, the Fins twice, the Ravens and Bengals, 4 of the 5-6 worst teams in the NFL (and you want to talk about the Giants beating patsies?)

Top 10 in the NFL in total defense, 6th in the NFL in rushing offense, top 5 in time of possesion, 1st in sacks, thats why the Giants win football games. All signs of a team who wins in the trenches. All signs of a team who wins more often then not. They are a vastly superior team to Buffalo.

And stop with the "Losman and Edwards are better then Eli" mindless nonsense. Eli hasnt lived up to the hype of a first overall pick, but hes among the league leaders in TD passes since 2005, hes led teams to the playoffs all 3 years (with 1 more win this year). JP Losman may not even be in the league in 2 years. Trent Edwards hasn't proven absolutely anything whatsoever

And lastly, cut the AFC/NFC nonsense. The NFC East is as good as just about any division in the AFC. The AFC South and NFC East are the 2 best divisions in football. If the Giants played in the NFC South or West you may have a point. But they don't, so you don't.

If I had confidence I could collect Id gladly take you up on your offer of handing me money by taking the Bills money line

 

[newton_tom_cat]

The Giants are good because they have one of the best o-line, d-line combos in the NFL. Not because they have (had) Shockey, not because they have Burress, who has been dinged up all season. It appears to me that maybe you only watch football through the eyes of a fantasy football fan. The Giants win games because they win in the trenches more often then not.

They are good because they lead the NFL in sacks, get pressure on QB on a fairly consistent basis, and can run block with just about anyone. The running game has not missed a beat without Tiki, both Jacobs and Ward are averaging around 5 ypc. Jacobs can rush for 1,000 yards still this year despite missing the better part of 6 games (missed 5 full games and 3/4 of another one)

The Giants will beat the Bills. And theyll do it because theyll dominate the line of scrimmage. The Bills are the biggest mirage .500 football team Ive ever seen. 29th in total offense, 30th in total defense, they have absolutely no redeeming qualities as a football team to hang their hat on at this point. They are where they are because they beat the Jets twice, the Fins twice, the Ravens and Bengals, 4 of the 5-6 worst teams in the NFL (and you want to talk about the Giants beating patsies?)

Top 10 in the NFL in total defense, 6th in the NFL in rushing offense, top 5 in time of possesion, 1st in sacks, thats why the Giants win football games. All signs of a team who wins more often then not. They are a vastly superior team to Buffalo.

And stop with the "Losman and Edwards are better then Eli" mindless nonsense. Eli hasnt lived up to the hype of a first overall pick, but hes among the league leaders in TD passes since being inserted into the starting lineup in 2005, hes led teams to the playoffs all 3 years (with 1 more win this year). JP Losman may not even be in the league in 2 years. Trent Edwards hasn't proven absolutely anything whatsoever

And lastly, cut the AFC/NFC nonsense. The NFC East is as good as just about any division in the AFC. The AFC South and NFC East are the 2 best divisions in football. If the Giants played in the NFC South or West you may have a point. But they don't, so you don't.

If I had confidence I could collect Id gladly take you up on your offer of handing me money by taking the Bills money line

although id pick gmen, i wouldnt write off bills so easily. they have really jelled as one of the better pass blocking lines in the league. havent given up a sack in 3 games. they are massive weighing in at the league's biggest. they have a starting pro-bowler in left tackle jason peters. they wont roll over for giants pass rush. and that will help open the running game for their talented rookie backs lynch and jackson. they will move the ball some on gmen. what could tip the balance in gmens favor will be massive RB jacobs. as big as bills are on offensive line, theyre small on defensive front 7. jamal lewis man handled them last week in snowy cleveland, they had no answer for him. nearly every pass browns completed was a result of bills over playing the run, as they had no choice. so jacobs is the matchup they need to exploit. putting this one in elis hands and thinking "pass 1st" gets them in trouble as ralph wilson is just as windy as giants stadium, which is where eli performs worst.

 

[primetime]

The Giants will beat the Bills. And theyll do it because theyll dominate the line of scrimmage. The Bills are the biggest mirage .500 football team Ive ever seen.

Well, they've been dominating the line of scrimmage en route to an early 14-0 deficit. The Giants aren't a good team.

 

[Lansdowne]

I like the NFLN commercial with the Pats fan on it:

"If you're already a dynasty, what comes after that?"

 

[Fanfrom1960]

Sometimes, I feel like he doesn't even want to play football. He just did it because he was supposed to. I could be totally wrong, just an impression I get sometimes.

Might well be. The only reason I played in high school was I felt I had to because my brother was an all-state QB. Problem with me was that I didn't grow much 'til college. I made up for it by being slow , so I basically got killed whenever coach put me in. Eli, of course, has talent, but nowhere near what Peyton has. He'll always come up short in comparisons.

 

[Brooklyn Nick]

Well, they've been dominating the line of scrimmage en route to an early 14-0 deficit. The Giants aren't a good team.

What was that? They almost ran for 300 yards today. I would call that domination at the line of scrimmage

Enjoy the Giants backups next week

And too bad you didnt want to take me up on the offer of putting money on the bills to win outright, i could have made some extra christmas change

 

[primetime]

What was that? They almost ran for 300 yards today. I would call that domination at the line of scrimmage

Enjoy the Giants backups next week

And too bad you didnt want to take me up on the offer of putting money on the bills to win outright, i could have made some extra christmas change

Trent Edwards lost that game for the Bills. If JP Losman had been in at QB, it would've been a different scoreline.

 

[Mxyzptlk]

Trent Edwards lost that game for the Bills. If JP Losman had been in at QB, it would've been a different scoreline.

Only if he could also help shore up the run D.

 

[primetime]

Only if he could also help shore up the run D.

That's true, too. Bills are undersized up front. Their run defense has been awful all year. But Edwards was horrendous.

 

[Brooklyn Nick]

Trent Edwards lost that game for the Bills. If JP Losman had been in at QB, it would've been a different scoreline.

LOL. Are you serious. When did JP Losman play defense? They lost the game because the Giants ran the ball for 300 yards. Just like i told you, domination at the line of scrimmage. Its been that way all year. No tiki? No problem, Giants still have a top 5 rushing offense in the NFL, and have 3 excellent young RBs. Their depth at RB is so good that they traded away Ryan Grant before the season started, he wasn't good enough to make this roster, and hes running wild for the Packers. Excellent depth at RB and an awesome run blocking line, chalk full of guys under 30 years old

Thats 7 straight wins on the road now for the Giants. You don't do that in the NFL if you arent a good team. They aren't the Pats, they aren't the Colts, they aren't the Cowboys, but they are an above average NFL team who has won games consistently and continues to do so because they can dominate in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Teams who "arent good" don't win 7 straight times on the road in the national football league, they just dont.

When you lead the NFL in sacks, play good run defense, and run the ball on basically every team you face week in week out, you will win more often then not in the NFL. The Giants do all those things, and thats why they win more often then not. They dominate the trenches

 

[primetime]

When you lead the NFL in sacks, play good run defense, and run the ball on basically every team you face week in week out, you will win more often then not in the NFL. The Giants do all those things, and thats why they win more often then not. They dominate the trenches

Wait until they start playing good teams in the playoffs (I'll give you a mulligan next week due to extenuating circumstances) and they have to turn to Eli to get them a win. Unfortunately for the Giants, they have a bad QB whose salvation lies in the hands of Burress and Shockey, both of whom are injured (though Toomer is consistently underrated, I'll give you that). It isn't looking at it through fantasy football eyes, it's the fact that the Giants simply aren't a good enough team to win in spite of consistent poor play by their QB against playoff caliber squads.

Like I said, I'm from Albany, my friends are all Giants fans. They don't trust Eli to win them a game against a good team... do you?

 

[newton_tom_cat]

Giants were helped by Shockey's absence. It made them focus more on establishing the run and playing a more traditional offensive set. They're a better team now.

 

[Brooklyn Nick]

Wait until they start playing good teams in the playoffs (I'll give you a mulligan next week due to extenuating circumstances) and they have to turn to Eli to get them a win. Unfortunately for the Giants, they have a bad QB whose salvation lies in the hands of Burress and Shockey, both of whom are injured (though Toomer is consistently underrated, I'll give you that). It isn't looking at it through fantasy football eyes, it's the fact that the Giants simply aren't a good enough team to win in spite of consistent poor play by their QB against playoff caliber squads.

Like I said, I'm from Albany, my friends are all Giants fans. They don't trust Eli to win them a game against a good team... do you?

I dont get your point. So if the Giants dont go on a run now in the playoffs that means they suck? Im not making them out to be a juggernaught, they are a solid NFL team, not the Pats, not the Colts. They can win a road game on Wildcard weekend against a Tampa or Seattle, after that they would have to play above their head to advance

They have certain qualities as a team that can give them a punchers chance on any given Sunday against anyone, when you are good up front on both sides of the ball you have a shot.

Eli has not played great, in fact from the standpoint of a #1 overall pick and a guy the Giants gave up another first rounder for, you can say hes disappointed. Im not even arguing that. But hes won a bunch of games in his career, theyve made the playoffs all 3 years with him starting, and hes thrown more TD passes then all but 5 guys since the start of the 2005 season, hes not great, but hes solid, and probably has more room to grow. He's not going to all of a sudden improve into a Peyton or Brady, but he still has room to grow as a player. He's probably about 80% of what he will be in the future. Most QBs play the best football of their career after their 4th-5th year.

Giants have work to do in the offseason if they want to compete with the truly elite teams, but they are a very young squad and have a good cap situation. They can win with Eli going forward. He's a solid NFL QB, far from spectacular, and he will probably still grow a little as a player. He has some real good qualities as a QB. If he wasn't such a turnover machine people would be a lot higher on him, thats his biggest problem

again, im not saying the Giants are some juggernaught, but theyre certainly an above average NFL team. They have certain qualities as a football team that they can hang their hat on pretty consistently that are condusive to winning, and it starts with the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball being above average

 

[primetime]

But the whole point of winning is winning a Super Bowl. You seem content that the Giants are a consistent one-and-done playoff team. The NFC is a bad conference at this point in time, so them making the playoffs on a consistent basis is hardly an accomplishment... if they want to go further, they need to find a QB who isn't going to hurt them. Eli isn't even a game manager... he makes too many mistakes.

 

[Brooklyn Nick]

But the whole point of winning is winning a Super Bowl. You seem content that the Giants are a consistent one-and-done playoff team. The NFC is a bad conference at this point in time, so them making the playoffs on a consistent basis is hardly an accomplishment... if they want to go further, they need to find a QB who isn't going to hurt them. Eli isn't even a game manager... he makes too many mistakes.

The NFC AFC stuff is very overrated. The Giants play in the NFC East, which is now and has been arguably the best division in football for a few years. Its either the NFC East or AFC South. Making the playoffs out of the NFC East 3 years in a row is an accomplishment. Theres no gimmes in this division, even the last place Eagles almost went into NE and won with a backup QB, and won at Dallas. I dont see how making the playoffs in the AFC is such a bigger accomplishment. The Browns have arguably the worst defense in the NFL and may get into the playoffs, they couldnt beat the Bengals today with a playoff berth on the line. If they dont make it, the Titans will. Are the Titans some juggernaught? With Vince Young and his 1:2 TD:INT ratio? They barely snuck past the Jets today at home

Im not convinced Eli can't win a superbowl if the team is built right around him. They wont win it because of him, but they certainly can with him. QBs other then Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have won SB before, and will win SB again. Eli is going to need to raise his game some, but hes not nearly the scrub that hes portrayed as nationally. Hes a solid, winning NFL QB, who mixes flashes of brilliance with stretches of turnover prone play, but the guy has many good qualities as a QB. Hes been very clutch late in games throughout his career, he has had a bunch of memorable 4th quarter comeback wins. Hes played every game, never missed a start due to injury, played through a separated throwing shoulder this year. He's thrown a bunch of TD passes, among the league leaders since 2005. People forget stuff like this because hes Peyton Mannings brother and was the top pick in the draft. If hes not an instant hall of famer he stinks

If Eli Manning could simply cut down on the turnovers hed be a much much better QB. And im not counting him out from doing that, in the grand scheme he is still a young QB.

 

[newton_tom_cat]

The NFC AFC stuff is very overrated. The Giants play in the NFC East, which is now and has been arguably the best division in football for a few years. Its either the NFC East or AFC South. Making the playoffs out of the NFC East 3 years in a row is an accomplishment. Theres no gimmes in this division, even the last place Eagles almost went into NE and won with a backup QB, and won at Dallas. I dont see how making the playoffs in the AFC is such a bigger accomplishment. The Browns have arguably the worst defense in the NFL and may get into the playoffs, they couldnt beat the Bengals today with a playoff berth on the line. If they dont make it, the Titans will. Are the Titans some juggernaught? With Vince Young and his 1:2 TD:INT ratio? They barely snuck past the Jets today at home

Im not convinced Eli can't win a superbowl if the team is built right around him. They wont win it because of him, but they certainly can with him. QBs other then Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have won SB before, and will win SB again. Eli is going to need to raise his game some, but hes not nearly the scrub that hes portrayed as nationally. Hes a solid, winning NFL QB, who mixes flashes of brilliance with stretches of turnover prone play, but the guy has many good qualities as a QB. Hes been very clutch late in games throughout his career, he has had a bunch of memorable 4th quarter comeback wins. Hes played every game, never missed a start due to injury, played through a separated throwing shoulder this year. He's thrown a bunch of TD passes, among the league leaders since 2005. People forget stuff like this because hes Peyton Mannings brother and was the top pick in the draft. If hes not an instant hall of famer he stinks

If Eli Manning could simply cut down on the turnovers hed be a much much better QB. And im not counting him out from doing that, in the grand scheme he is still a young QB.

Eli's #'s from today's Giants win: 0 TD, 4 Turnovers, 111 yards

dude, get with the program. when they win its in spite of him, not because of him

 

[Brooklyn Nick]

Eli's #'s from today's Giants win: 0 TD, 4 Turnovers, 111 yards

dude, get with the program. when they win its in spite of him, not because of him

So theyre winning in spite of him?

Take today aside. You dont make the playoffs 3 years in a row with garbage at QB. You just don't. You can mask poor play and win in spite of it for a year, catch lightning in a bottle. But you wont win on a consistent basis year after year if your QB is garbage. Its the most important position in the sport. In order to win games you have to get some degree of play out of the position. The Giants have made the playoffs 3 years in a row now mostly on the backs of the offense, not the defense. The defense this season for the first time in a while is starting to perform, and it still has strides to make.

Theyve won games more often then not during this span because they put up points, they were 3rd in scoring in 05, 10th last year, and this year are in the top half. The guy who touches the ball on every play gets credit for that. You dont score points on a regular basis with bad qb play, i dont care how good your running game is. Points come in the passing game, Eli's made a bunch of plays here. As turnover prone as he can be at times, you can only list a handful of guys who have thrown more td passes since 2005, only a handful who have thrown for more yards. And not very many have played better late in the 4th quarter of games then Manning during this span. He's had 8 comeback wins in the 4th quarter in his career and a bunch of games where he brought the team down the field in the final 2 minutes to tie the game only to have the defense blow the game. Happened in the playoff game last year, he overcame a 2nd and 30 on the final drive to lead the Giants to a game tying TD drive when he hit Plax with about 3 min left. Then the defense let the eagles down the field for a fg

Hes made a lot of plays here. He's also had a lot of turnovers. But the Giants dont win in spite of garbage qb play. You dont make the playoffs in the NFL 3 seasons in a row with a garbage QB. The teams who make the playoffs on a regular basis due so because they get a degree of quality out of the position. The Giants certainly havent won since 2005 because of a dominant defense

 

[newton_tom_cat]

So theyre winning in spite of him?

Take today aside. You dont make the playoffs 3 years in a row with garbage at QB. You just don't. You can mask poor play and win in spite of it for a year, catch lightning in a bottle. But you wont win on a consistent basis year after year if your QB is garbage. Its the most important position in the sport. In order to win games you have to get some degree of play out of the position. The Giants have made the playoffs 3 years in a row now mostly on the backs of the offense, not the defense. The defense this season for the first time in a while is starting to perform, and it still has strides to make.

Theyve won games more often then not during this span because they put up points, they were 3rd in scoring in 05, 10th last year, and this year are in the top half. The guy who touches the ball on every play gets credit for that. You dont score points on a regular basis with bad qb play, i dont care how good your running game is. Points come in the passing game, Eli's made a bunch of plays here. As turnover prone as he can be at times, you can only list a handful of guys who have thrown more td passes since 2005, only a handful who have thrown for more yards. And not very many have played better late in the 4th quarter of games then Manning during this span. He's had 8 comeback wins in the 4th quarter in his career and a bunch of games where he brought the team down the field in the final 2 minutes to tie the game only to have the defense blow the game. Happened in the playoff game last year, he overcame a 2nd and 30 on the final drive to lead the Giants to a game tying TD drive when he hit Plax with about 3 min left. Then the defense let the eagles down the field for a fg

Hes made a lot of plays here. He's also had a lot of turnovers. But the Giants dont win in spite of garbage qb play. You dont make the playoffs in the NFL 3 seasons in a row with a garbage QB. The teams who make the playoffs on a regular basis due so because they get a degree of quality out of the position. The Giants certainly havent won since 2005 because of a dominant defense

dude, they went to the super bowl with his predecessor .. a not so impressive kerry collins. i watched the game today. they ultimately won with running and defense. for most of the game looked like they would lose due to eli's turnovers. dude, get real, i hear eli's straight anyway. your man-love for him won't get you anywhere