Anyone still question letting Vinatieri go?

[Tunescribe]

One minor bright spot from last night's game was tangible vindication of the Adam V. decision. He missed two field goal attempts and his kickoffs were short, as usual. While our rookie missed a kick he should've made, he also nailed a 49-yarder I doubt Vinatieri could still make under those same conditions (grass, cold weather). Plus, his kickoffs were high and deep. Good move, BB. By the way, for those who weren't there: When he first came onto the field before the game, Vinatieri was both booed and cheered; I think the cheers were slightly louder. But during the game he was roundly booed, and when he missed the crowd taunted him with chants of "Aaa-dam, Aaa-dam." I decided long ago I would neither boo nor cheer the guy. He made for some special memories for me: I was at the snow bowl vs. Oakland and the Carolina and Philadelphia Super Bowls. But his coldly calculated decision to chase the dollars -- while understandable -- still leaves a sour taste in my mouth, especially seeing him in a Colts uniform.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

It's still too early to tell about AV. It was good to see him miss, but his team still won, so all will be forgotten.

Unfortunately, we don't seem to have a particularly reliable kicker, so it's hard to gloat about AV missing a couple. The kick Gost missed was horrible, and in a big spot. It could have really changed the game. I will still give him the benefit of the doubt because he's a rookie, but he can't miss too many more like that.

 

[Tunescribe]

It's still too early to tell about AV. It was good to see him miss, but his team still won, so all will be forgotten.

Unfortunately, we don't seem to have a particularly reliable kicker, so it's hard to gloat about AV missing a couple. The kick Gost missed was horrible, and in a big spot. It could have really changed the game. I will still give him the benefit of the doubt because he's a rookie, but he can't miss too many more like that.

Gostkowski is a rookie with plenty more upside than Adam, in my humble opinion. Do you think he's less reliable than Vinatieri at this stage, in our stadium? One thing I'll give Vinatieri credit for is realizing the prospect of extending his career by kicking indoors. I do believe that Gost is at or near the league lead in kickoff distance which, our poor coverage last night notwithstanding, translates to hundreds of yards in field position over the course of a season.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Schadenfreude is a wonderful thing, isn't it.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Before Faulk let TB's final pass bounce out of his hands, I was thinking that we were set up for a perfect finish. The Pat's tie the game, going to OT because Vinatieri had missed two FG's. Then the rookie wins it with a FG in the extra period...we can dream can't we...

 

[Tunescribe]

Before Faulk let TB's final pass bounce out of his hands, I was thinking that we were set up for a perfect finish. The Pat's tie the game, going to OT because Vinatieri had missed two FG's. Then the rookie wins it with a FG in the extra period...we can dream can't we...

I'm wondering if we score on that final drive if BB goes for 2. Nothing would've been worse than for Indy to win the coin flip in overtime and drive down for a winning Vinatieri kick.

 

[BelichickFan]

Honestly I would take the traitor back right now. Sorry to say, I have no confidence in Gostkowski. In fact with Gramatica out there I would probably waste a roster spot and sign him just in case Gostkowski goes 1-4 in the next two games. If he kicks well we could let Gramatica go. And what happened to Gostkowski's kickoffs ? They were horrible yesterday.

 

[Tunescribe]

Honestly I would take the traitor back right now. Sorry to say, I have no confidence in Gostkowski. In fact with Gramatica out there I would probably waste a roster spot and sign him just in case Gostkowski goes 1-4 in the next two games. If he kicks well we could let Gramatica go. And what happened to Gostkowski's kickoffs ? They were horrible yesterday.

I recall only one Gostkowski kickoff not being at least inside the 5, maybe two. But I'll have to check on that. They were better than Adam's, on average. But seriously, other than those blocked kicks earlier in the season, why no confidence in Gost? That 49-yarder was damn impressive. I wouldn't take Vinatieri back over him.

 

[BelichickFan]

That 49-yarder was damn impressive. I wouldn't take Vinatieri back over him.

That was impressive, no doubt. Then he Vanderjagted the next one from the mid thirties. No confidence - doesn't mean I don't think he can make any kicks but when he lines up for a 30+ yard kick I have no confidence as he's missed two now (last night and @ Cincy) by almost missing the entire stadium.

To be clear I am NOT, in any way, suggesting cutting him. But I would sign Gramatica just in case.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'm wondering if we score on that final drive if BB goes for 2. Nothing would've been worse than for Indy to win the coin flip in overtime and drive down for a winning Vinatieri kick.

My thoughts exactly.
Had we scored, the odds were that our O could make the 2 points. Why let 'luck' determine an outcome that you have a direct capability to influence?

 

[BelichickFan]

No way would we have gone for two. If we had it would have been a horrible decision. Two pointers are successful something like 30% of the time.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

No way would we have gone for two. If we had it would have been a horrible decision. Two pointers are successful something like 30% of the time.

I believe 2-point conversions are successful over 50% of the time. I think that if the Pats scored they would have gone for two.

Which brings us back to Vin. Last night was a bad night: he's still the greatest clutch kicker in NFL history and he's the guy I want kicking with the game on the line. Vin has had bad games before. Remember Houston?

This year i'd take Vin back in a heartbeat. Two years from now I'll be happy to have Gost going forward rather than an aging Vin.

 

[marty]

Since I never thought it was a question of us "letting him go", as much as him wanting to go, NO! It was the one bright light to last night's game tho', seeing his average KO's and those two misses!

 

[BelichickFan]

I believe 2-point conversions are successful over 50% of the time. I think that if the Pats scored they would have gone for two.

Evidently the success rate is about 43% :

"The NCAA and the NFL have similar statistics for the success rate of two-point conversions and extra points. In the NFL the figures are 43% for the two-point conversion and 94% for the extra point, while in the NCAA the figures are 43.5% and 93.8% (Mallory & Nehlan, 2004)."

http://www.thesportjournal.org/2005Journal/Vol8-No4/starkey.asp

Which is higher than I thought but still below average. Obviously it's not over 50% or teams would always go for two.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Didn't the Pats once have Robby Gould on the roster? I swear that this was true. BB should have tried to keep him.

 

[Tunescribe]

Since I never thought it was a question of us "letting him go", as much as him wanting to go, NO! It was the one bright light to last night's game tho', seeing his average KO's and those two misses!

Sure we let him walk. We could have franchised him, or given him a boatload of cash to stay.

 

[BelichickFan]

Didn't the Pats once have Robby Gould on the roster? I swear that this was true. BB should have tried to keep him.

Yep. Wouldn't look bad right now. Hopefully Gostkowski will look like that in 2007.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Evidently the success rate is about 43% :

"The NCAA and the NFL have similar statistics for the success rate of two-point conversions and extra points. In the NFL the figures are 43% for the two-point conversion and 94% for the extra point, while in the NCAA the figures are 43.5% and 93.8% (Mallory & Nehlan, 2004)."

http://www.thesportjournal.org/2005Journal/Vol8-No4/starkey.asp

Which is higher than I thought but still below average. Obviously it's not over 50% or teams would always go for two.

That's the LEAGUE average, a stat that includes some very bad teams making desperation moves. Last night, odds were with a Pats O gaining a couple yaers esp given that the options of run or pass were both viable.

Why a coach would let a coin flip possibly expose his tired D missing its leader to the onslaught of the BEST O IN THE NFL and what used to be at least the most clutch kicker doesn't make sense to me.

 

[brady2brown]

It's still too early to tell about AV.

Yeah, let's wait about five years and then check and see how he's kicking the ball then. If he still is kicking off to the ten-fifteen yard line, we'll know.

 

[BelichickFan]

That's the LEAGUE average, a stat that includes some very bad teams making desperation moves. Last night, odds were with a Pats O gaining a couple yaers esp given that the options of run or pass were both viable.

I don't have the Patriots number but if it were over 50% we would probably do it on every TD.