3rd down defense still lacking

[Charles Barwin]

Is Hightower even fast enough to stay on the field on 3rd down? Spikes certainly isn't.

The Pats biggest weakness last year was was 3rd down defense. I suppose Hightower could compete to play 4-3 end on 3rd downs as well as Jones.

Tarpinian is our only above average coverage linebacker on 3rd downs, and he can't stay healthy. Hopefully we get another coverage linebacker in the second round tonight, like Brown.

Otherwise I think the Pats will continue to get picked apart on 3rd downs.

Am I missing something? Hightower is a great player, but I don't recall many people clamoring for another big ILB as a top need for the Pats.

 

[manxman2601]

Is Hightower even fast enough to stay on the field on 3rd down? Spikes certainly isn't.

The Pats biggest weakness last year was was 3rd down defense. I suppose Hightower could compete to play 4-3 end on 3rd downs as well as Jones.

Tarpinian is our only above average coverage linebacker on 3rd downs, and he can't stay healthy. Hopefully we get another coverage linebacker in the second round tonight, like Brown.

Otherwise I think the Pats will continue to get picked apart on 3rd downs.

Am I missing something? Hightower is a great player, but I don't recall many people clamoring for another big ILB as a top need for the Pats.

Well Hightowers speed isn't an issue, he runs in the 4.6's. Hightower plays well as a zone defender. For 'Bama, he dropped back to the first down marker and sat there waiting to challenge receivers crossing in front of him and his intelligence and instinct made him good in that role. What he is not however is someone who can cover in man coverage. I would love to pick up Lavonte David if he falls to #48, he's someone who can man cover a TE 40 yds from the LOS and failing that, Mychal Kendricks or Bobby Wagner (please not Zach Brown) but with only two picks it'll take some Belichick magic to create an extra pick to get a cover LB because I think they are targeting other needs as a priority now. Hopefully Lavonte David is BPA @48.

 

[dryheat44]

Is Hightower even fast enough to stay on the field on 3rd down? Spikes certainly isn't.

The Pats biggest weakness last year was was 3rd down defense. I suppose Hightower could compete to play 4-3 end on 3rd downs as well as Jones.

Tarpinian is our only above average coverage linebacker on 3rd downs, and he can't stay healthy. Hopefully we get another coverage linebacker in the second round tonight, like Brown.

Otherwise I think the Pats will continue to get picked apart on 3rd downs.

Am I missing something? Hightower is a great player, but I don't recall many people clamoring for another big ILB as a top need for the Pats.

I was about to type something about some people complaining about anything, but you have a really good point here. While Mayo and Fletcher were adequate last year, a Roman Phifer-type (Wagner?) would be nice. Maybe we'll pick one up in the draft, or maybe BB can re-sign Ihedigbo to play linebacker in those situations.

 

[Gronkandez]

Well Hightowers speed isn't an issue, he runs in the 4.6's. Hightower plays well as a zone defender. For 'Bama, he dropped back to the first down marker and sat there waiting to challenge receivers crossing in front of him and his intelligence and instinct made him good in that role. What he is not however is someone who can cover in man coverage. I would love to pick up Lavonte David if he falls to #48, he's someone who can man cover a TE 40 yds from the LOS and failing that, Mychal Kendricks or Bobby Wagner (please not Zach Brown) but with only two picks it'll take some Belichick magic to create an extra pick to get a cover LB because I think they are targeting other needs as a priority now. Hopefully Lavonte David is BPA @48.

Didn't he run a 4.87 at the combine?

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draf...player/combine?id=29006&_slug_=chandler-jones

 

[Charles Barwin]

I guess I'd be happy with another udfa of Tarp's caliber, but we were lucky he chose the Pats last year. Maybe there's some udfa oversized safeties as well, hopefully, if this pass defense need isn't addressed in the 2nd.

 

[manxman2601]

Didn't he run a 4.79 at the combine?

4.68

10 char

 

[Gronkandez]

4.68

10 char

Jones, who was a junior entry, goes nearly 6-5 ½ and 266 pounds and has very long arms (35 ½ -inch arms). He ran the 40-yard dash in 4.82 seconds. Jones has a great first step. He can do what Bill Belichick wants: stand up to a tackle but also get to the quarterback.

Analyzing the pick of DE/OLB Chandler Jones - Boston.com

 

[manxman2601]

Well Hightowers speed isn't an issue, he runs in the 4.6's. Hightower plays well as a zone defender. For 'Bama, he dropped back to the first down marker and sat there waiting to challenge receivers crossing in front of him and his intelligence and instinct made him good in that role. What he is not however is someone who can cover in man coverage. I would love to pick up Lavonte David if he falls to #48, he's someone who can man cover a TE 40 yds from the LOS and failing that, Mychal Kendricks or Bobby Wagner (please not Zach Brown) but with only two picks it'll take some Belichick magic to create an extra pick to get a cover LB because I think they are targeting other needs as a priority now. Hopefully Lavonte David is BPA @48.

Analyzing the pick of DE/OLB Chandler Jones - Boston.com

I'm sensing a disconnect here.

 

[JackBauer]

When he's not rehabbing from an MCL, Mayo isn't bad in coverage, either.

I think Mayo/Fletcher/Tarp/Hightower offers quite a few options.

 

[Gronkandez]

I'm sensing a disconnect here.

Ooops. Sorry about that.

 

[manxman2601]

Ooops. Sorry about that.

No problem.

 

[patchick]

I understand the thinking behind this post, but I prefer to think of it as the Pats now boasting 2 legitimate 3-down LBs. I'll take that any day, and plug in Josh Barrett -- who is as big as Lavonte David and plenty faster -- as a hybrid SS/ILB.

 

[Off The Grid]

I understand the thinking behind this post, but I prefer to think of it as the Pats now boasting 2 legitimate 3-down LBs. I'll take that any day, and plug in Josh Barrett -- who is as big as Lavonte David and plenty faster -- as a hybrid SS/ILB.

Barrett is neither as big as David nor a "LineBacker".

He is indeed an intriguing option as that "Rover" or "Monster" or "Star", as you please...But he doesn't enter the discussion as a "Coverage LineBacker."

And he's about as dependable as Myron Pryor or Anthony Gonzalez...or Shawn Crable.

 

[DaBruinz]

Is Hightower even fast enough to stay on the field on 3rd down? Spikes certainly isn't.

The Pats biggest weakness last year was was 3rd down defense. I suppose Hightower could compete to play 4-3 end on 3rd downs as well as Jones.

Tarpinian is our only above average coverage linebacker on 3rd downs, and he can't stay healthy. Hopefully we get another coverage linebacker in the second round tonight, like Brown.

Otherwise I think the Pats will continue to get picked apart on 3rd downs.

Am I missing something? Hightower is a great player, but I don't recall many people clamoring for another big ILB as a top need for the Pats.

You'd have a much more cogent argument if you actually talked about the formations that the Pats rolled out on 3rd downs.

There are 2 different ones depending on whether it's short yardage or a passing situation. I'm going to guess that you are talking about passing situations. And in those passing situations the Pats typically roll out 1 of 2 formations. They roll out a 2-4-5 or a 4-2-5. And they look very similar.

In the 2-4-5, they have typically gone with Wright/Pryor in the middle and with more agile LBers such as Ninkovich, Mayo, Fletcher, etc so they can cover the RB or TE..

The problem with Hightower isn't his speed as he runs a 4.68. The problem is i his agility and change of direction. However, he has shown himself to be exceptional in the Zone Coverage type of scheme the Pats love to run on 3rd down with their ILBs. You know, the coverage that Tedy Bruschi excelled at.

As for Tarpinian, he's not nearly as good as Fletcher, but that is beside the point.

The Pats have made numerous changes on the defense to this point. For you to sit and say that they are going to continue to get picked apart on 3rd down is very pessimistic of you and begs the questions as to whether you understand all the changes that have been made.

 

[Charles Barwin]

scheme only takes you so far. Last year proved that. What changes have been made so far this offseason to prevent the defense from getting picked apart on passing downs?

Hopefully we draft an athlete tonight, that's pretty much all I'm saying. Unless you really think Hightower is the answer to our passing down woes, which I doubt you do.

 

[Charles Barwin]

3rd down defense still lacking after Tavon Wilson, special team standout, drafted. Or maybe I just don't understand the changes that have been made, lmfao.

 

[Charles Barwin]

annnnd there goes Lavonte David.

 

[DaBruinz]

scheme only takes you so far. Last year proved that. What changes have been made so far this offseason to prevent the defense from getting picked apart on passing downs?

Hopefully we draft an athlete tonight, that's pretty much all I'm saying. Unless you really think Hightower is the answer to our passing down woes, which I doubt you do.

What changes? How about a legitimate Free Safety in Steven Gregory being added? Gregory is a significant upgrade over Sergio Brown, James Ihedigbo, and Josh Barrett. How about the additions of Fanene and Trevor Scott? To replace Mike Wright (who has been missing the past 2 years and was stellar on 3rd downs) and Mark Anderson (who also showed a ton of ability on 3rd downs).

Unlike YOU, I know that it's a TEAM effort. Unlike YOU, I can recognize that the Patriots have added numerous players to the team who should help to improve this teams defense over-all, not just on third downs.

Hell, they added Chandler Jones, Hightower AND Jake Bequette. All three of whom were legitimate pass rushers in college. You add them to a Front 6 that already has Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Pryor, Mayo, and Ninkovich and the team improves dramatically.

Now, as for your attempt to downplay Scheme. The scheme is what sets who is going to be on the field. Whether it's going to be 4 D-linemen or 4 LBers. You really must be a new fan of the team who never got to watch how this Patriots defense did on 3rd downs when it could rush the passer from any of the 4 LBer positions. Otherwise you wouldn't be making the comments you are.

Luckily, the Pats drafted a FOOTBALL player tonight in Bequette and not just an athlete. You see, they are building a TEAM, not just collecting talent.

 

[DaBruinz]

3rd down defense still lacking after Tavon Wilson, special team standout, drafted. Or maybe I just don't understand the changes that have been made, lmfao.

You clearly don't realize that Wilson was MORE than just a special team standout. He played all 4 years at Illinois, playing FS, SS and CB. Whatever the team needed. He started the last 3 years and was one of the team captains the last 2.

He should be an adequate back-up to Gregory for the next 2 years or so. Not sure I'd have taken him in the 2nd round when most places had him as a 6th/7/UDFA, but there's a reason the Pats have their own scouts. They also have information we don't.

No. You clearly don't have the ability to comprehend all the changes that have been made to the defense. And every time you post, you just reinforce that to everyone.