35 million in cap space, are there NO quality WRs or TEs available?

[Patsgofor4]

factual evidence of Harry being soft and you can’t dismiss it. It also wasn’t posted by stone but someone else. I’ve seen his Arizona tape but it’s mostly of him leaping. He isn’t a physical receiver who will run over DBs. He’s a slow WR who tries to box out or jump but this isn’t translating in the NFL. He averages under 8 yards per catch, worse than tight ends. He’s slow. He gets brought down by DBs 40 pounds lighter. He makes bone head turnovers that may have lost the game.

I would suggest that you maybe watch more of his time at AZ State.

Start with this compilation, because it makes your assessment look absurd. I actually felt a little embarrassed for you as I rewatched it.



And then re-watch this play vs the Chiefs last year. While there are many examples of top 10-15 NFL WRs, past and present, who are not elite route runners and/or separators, I accept those WR attributes as weaknesses in Harry's game (time will tell if they are fatal in terms of his NFL career). But calling him soft? Doesn't break tackles? Hahahaha.

 

[Uptown]

Decent point regarding next year’s draft class..

Patriots Mailbag: Pats Should Look To Acquire Receiver For Present, Future

The New England Patriots should look into trading for Odell Beckham Jr. or Allen Robinson to boost their current and future receiving corps.

nesn.com

 

[Patsgofor4]

I'm on board with trading for OBJ (vs Robinson), for reasons that have been discussed by others in this thread and I think that OBJ would love to play for BB and with Cam and would thrive here, but I don't think that the Browns would consider dealing him for at least several weeks and more likely not until the trading deadline....they have too much invested in him and in his QB to wave the white flag on the season so early on. If they start the season 1-4 or 1-5 then things may start to heat up.

Another player whom I am keeping my eye on is Curtis Samuel, whom others here had discussed in the offseason. From what I have read, he didn't have a stellar training camp

Panthers' Curtis Samuel: Quiet at camp

Panthers' Curtis Samuel: Quiet at camp

www.cbssports.com

and had a quiet first game (5 catches for 38 yards) as their WR3. Their new head coach has little invested in him emotionally and with Moore, Anderson and Mccaffrey likely to see the bulk of the targets (Samuel had a solid 8 targets week 1 but I doubt that will continue going forward), he may become somewhat of an afterthought in that offense. He would be a clear upgrade to Byrd, in my opinion, although BB clearly has an affinity for Byrd and will likely give him a fairly long leash early in the season.

 

[gitgronked82]

They don't usually "call a play" to go to one guy.

Don't you think that he could have been option 1 or 2 on a lot of plays, but was not open? It not like he has such a reputation that he would be an effective decoy, either. I wonder how often he got separation.

Exactly. There were a couple plays that Lazar showed where Byrd should have been the look and potentially scored a touchdown. Can didn’t happen to make that decision/there was pressure. But Byrd was involved in the game.
Remember, you usually run passing concepts. The play isn’t simply “throw a fade to Byrd.”

 

[Patsgofor4]

Going back to Harry...it blows my mind how impatient many posters are here when it comes to him. I could be wrong but it seems as though most of the Harry haters are also Brady worshipers. Maybe the INBF (It's Never Brady's Fault) crowd saw that his Pats career ending last and were so desperate for Harry to be an impact WR that they set unrealistic expectations for him, especially after he missed critical practice and game reps in training camp and then during the first 7 games of the regular season....all of a sudden those expectations became Brady-based anger when Harry (somewhat predictably) struggled, which then lead to an incredibly unfair bust label.

For years, it had been widely accepted that it is difficult for WR rookies, even high draft picks who did not miss extended training camp time, to make an impact in their first year. Last year's rookie class was an anomaly but wasn't discussed in that manner and when so many who were drafted after Harry (all of whom had a full training camp AND QBs who were willing to target them and allow them to make mistakes) made and impact, the vultures started circling around Harry.


He are the year 1 and 2 stats for a current elite WR who was a top 55 draft pick and who is now in his prime. The mediocre numbers don't even tell the whole story...these years were plagued by drops and mental errors.....I drafted him (too) early in fantasy football expecting him to be a breakout star and it was an exercise in frustration following him that year. Can anyone guess who this is?

My point is that there have been many elite wide receivers who had slow starts to their careers who would have been labeled as busts by many posters here, if they were judged by the same criteria that is being used on Harry. While this is may not be true of the majority of posters here who are down on Harry, there are definitely a few Harry critics who post frequently about him who secretly want him to fail, because what is most important to them is that they are proven right. Very sad, and pathetic.

 

[DaBruinz]

A starting WR getting spoon fed catches but still can't even average 10 yards a catch.

Do yourself a favor. Try actually WATCHING the games. Harry wasn't "spoon fed" catches. Furthermore, you seem to ignore that the 1st pass he caught was 5 yards behind the LOS. All the passes except ONE were short passes. Harry is a possession type receiver. I understand that this is something hard for you to understand, but when a player's routes are all set to be under 10 yards, it's hard to get more than 10 YPC..

 

[DaBruinz]

I haven't been following the cap closely, I thought a month ago the Pats were all out of cap space. Hence the low dollar contract for Cam. Based on the latest below, how do we have so much cap space at $26M this year ??? Do the Krafts just pocket this profit if left unused. We should extend or lock up some talented young guys. Like JC Jackson. Or even extend Cam a month from now.

Cap Space = $20,335,200 (@patscap) on Twitter

No. The Krafts don't "pocket the money". Any unused money gets rolled forward into next year. This was changed in the 2011 CBA.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah, there are a ton of names who are FA. In addition to the ones you named, I’m seeing Andrews, Guy, JMac, Butler, Burkhead, and Simon as “name” FA, and Eluemunor is also up. They won’t resign all of them of course, but the money will go quick. There’s a guess that the 2021 cap could drop down to as low as 175m due to COVID. Currently they have $30m in 2021 cap space (at the 175m level). Carrying forward 20-25m from this year will help make additional space.

Actually, they stated that the 2021 space could drop by 30-80 million. The 2020 base salary cap for the league was 198.2M. An 80M drop would put it at $118M. The carry over of 25M by the Patriots would give them a salary cap of $143M.. That would give them only $12M to work with and a TON of players to potentially re-sign.

The list of FAs (20) for next year are as follows:
Thuney, Andrews, Eluemenor, JMac, White, Guy, Adam Butler, Andrews, Simon, Burkhead, Newton, Brooks, Byrd, Davis, Calhoun, Bethel, Rivers, Wise, Hoyer, and Folk. There are 2 ERFAs in Myles Bryant and Jakob Johnson. One RFA in JC Jackson.

With the addition of Taylor and Harris, I doubt we'll see a big push for White and Burkhead to be re-signed. Thuney, Eluemenor, Guy, Andrews, Rivers, and Wise would be the primary focus.. As well as JC Jackson..

 

[captain stone]

Like when people was mad at Sony last year, like you guys forgot he was one of the reason we made to the play-offs and won our last super bowl. Who wouldn't draft with their first round a player that would help win a super bowl. Legit blows my mind.

Nick Chubb would've given us the exact same production as Soreknee did that year...and then some...

 

[DarrylS]

Nick Chubb would've given us the exact same production as Soreknee did that year...and then some...

For all the times you contend the same theme, the response is the same you cannot predict knee injuries in the NFL. Chubb plays for Cleveland a perennial loser and Michel plays for a perennial winning team.. wishing and hoping for a specific player is not a game that BB plays.

 

[LJRomanoff]

Going back to Harry...it blows my mind how impatient many posters are here when it comes to him. I could be wrong but it seems as though most of the Harry haters are also Brady worshipers. Maybe the INBF (It's Never Brady's Fault) crowd saw that his Pats career ending last and were so desperate for Harry to be an impact WR that they set unrealistic expectations for him, especially after he missed critical practice and game reps in training camp and then during the first 7 games of the regular season....all of a sudden those expectations became Brady-based anger when Harry (somewhat predictably) struggled, which then lead to an incredibly unfair bust label.

For years, it had been widely accepted that it is difficult for WR rookies, even high draft picks who did not miss extended training camp time, to make an impact in their first year. Last year's rookie class was an anomaly but wasn't discussed in that manner and when so many who were drafted after Harry (all of whom had a full training camp AND QBs who were willing to target them and allow them to make mistakes) made and impact, the vultures started circling around Harry.

View attachment 28624
He are the year 1 and 2 stats for a current elite WR who was a top 55 draft pick and who is now in his prime. The mediocre numbers don't even tell the whole story...these years were plagued by drops and mental errors.....I drafted him (too) early in fantasy football expecting him to be a breakout star and it was an exercise in frustration following him that year. Can anyone guess who this is?

My point is that there have been many elite wide receivers who had slow starts to their careers who would have been labeled as busts by many posters here, if they were judged by the same criteria that is being used on Harry. While this is may not be true of the majority of posters here who are down on Harry, there are definitely a few Harry critics who post frequently about him who secretly want him to fail, because what is most important to them is that they are proven right. Very sad, and pathetic.

When someone realizes who you're talking about, they're going to be doubly vexed by whom the Patriots drafted almost a full round earlier.

 

[letsgopats]

Nick Chubb would've given us the exact same production as Soreknee did that year...and then some...

Lol, hey why stop there? Why didn't bill draft Lamar or Mahomes? Yeah in hindsight it's easy to say that now but Sony was rated the 2nd best RB in the draft in most places after Barkley, and he was also perceived to be more versatile, which fitted the mold of RB that fitted the system more with Brady on realm. Bill made many draft choices that drove me crazy, but giving the information at the time, it was the right choice.

 

[Patsgofor4]

When someone realizes who you're talking about, they're going to be doubly vexed by who the Patriots drafted almost a full round earlier.

1. *whom* you're talking about, *whom* the Patriots drafted
2. I'm not sure that you know to whom I am referring but don't try to change the topic to "BB can't draft", because that horse has been beaten to death over the past 5 months. This is about prematurely and unfairly labeling a young player with fewer than 10 games of experience a bust and, in some cases (we all know the prime suspects), secretly rooting for him to fail, in order post "told ya!" on this site.

The player is Davante Adams.



I am NOT comparing Adams and Harry as players. I AM saying that if one used the unfair and ridiculous criteria for Adams that are being applied to Harry now, Adams would have been labeled a bust and a wasted pick. Adams is just one of the many examples of WRs who needed a full year or two to develop.

 

[LJRomanoff]

I'm not sure that you know to whom I am referring but don't try to change the topic to "BB can't draft", because that horse has been beaten to death over the past 5 months. This is about prematurely and unfairly labeling a young player with fewer than 10 games of experience a bust and, in some cases (we all know the prime suspects), secretly rooting for him to fail, in order post "told ya!" on this site.

I knew exactly to whom you were referring, and was agreeing with your larger point. It's unfortunate you chose to respond by being an obnoxious prick.

 

[Soliel]

We could have easily found a back like Sony in the 5th or 6th round. He doesn’t have breakaway speed, isn’t elusive and can’t be used in the passing game. Backs like him are a dime a dozen. The homers on here can’t accept that though.

You are crazy. Sony is just as good as Barry Sanders but haters like you won’t admit that! Oh wait..err, never mind

 

[Patsgofor4]

I knew exactly to whom you were referring, and was agreeing with your larger point. It's unfortunate you chose to respond by being an obnoxious prick.

I can definitely be an obnoxious prick, depending on the subject and the day of the week, but I am not clairvoyant. Nothing about your post seemed to indicate that you agreed with my larger point that many are being unfair to Harry. I retract the pricky portion of my post. Sorry.

 

[DaBruinz]

Honestly the problem with OBJ is we have to trade probably a 1st or a 2nd and this year that could look stupid because we could have a high pick

The Browns will be LUCKY to get a 5th for OBJ.

 

[DaBruinz]

We could have easily found a back like Sony in the 5th or 6th round. He doesn’t have breakaway speed, isn’t elusive and can’t be used in the passing game. Backs like him are a dime a dozen. The homers on here can’t accept that though.

You are completely talking out your bung hole. Per usual. Michel wouldn't have been around in the 5th or 6th. And yes, he CAN be used in the passing game. Just because the Pats use other backs for that doesn't mean Michel COULDN'T be used that way.

 

[DaBruinz]

factual evidence of Harry being soft and you can’t dismiss it. It also wasn’t posted by stone but someone else. I’ve seen his Arizona tape but it’s mostly of him leaping. He isn’t a physical receiver who will run over DBs. He’s a slow WR who tries to box out or jump but this isn’t translating in the NFL. He averages under 8 yards per catch, worse than tight ends. He’s slow. He gets brought down by DBs 40 pounds lighter. He makes bone head turnovers that may have lost the game.

Your assessment is complete garbage. It shows just how little you know about football. College or Pro.

Harry didn't MAKE the turnover. BAKER, the guy tackling him, caused that turnover with a damn good play. FFS. Grow the F up and learn to give the opposing team some credit. It's not like he pulled a Patrick Pass and dropped the ball while pulling a hamstring.

Please name the DB who is 40 lbs lighter than Harry who brought him down one on one. I'm sure EVERYONE here would love to know when that happened. Especially since it was a LB who tackled him and caused the fumble.

 

[DaBruinz]

I can definitely be an obnoxious prick, depending on the subject and the day of the week, but I am not clairvoyant. Nothing about your post seemed to indicate that you agreed with my larger point that many are being unfair to Harry. I retract the pricky portion of my post. Sorry.

Actually, I understood he was agreeing with you.. But then, I've been around so long to understand his postings..