2010 NFL MVP Debate (merged several times)

[upstater1]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

I hope you're only making this comparison in jest - or making a joke on those that have made this ludicrous comparison. Obviously torturing and killing animals for sport is not at all comparable to simply being a carnivore.

With factory farming, they are compatible. Cheap meat is all about torture. It's not for sport, but for profit.

 

[sieglo]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

With factory farming, they are compatible. Cheap meat is all about torture. It's not for sport, but for profit.

In Vick's case, there's ample evidence that he actually enjoyed the torture. As in, took pleasure from brutally killing animals.

That's psychopathy there.

 

[ivanvamp]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

With factory farming, they are compatible. Cheap meat is all about torture. It's not for sport, but for profit.

This thread is quickly going off on a huge tangent.

But since we're there D), I never understood the vegan/animal rights viewpoint, especially when some people I know who are vegans wear nice leather belts, sandals, and (when they play sports) basketball sneakers. Killing an animal to eat is wrong, but killing an animal to wear is ok?

:bricks:

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

This thread is quickly going off on a huge tangent.

But since we're there D), I never understood the vegan/animal rights viewpoint, especially when some people I know who are vegans wear nice leather belts, sandals, and (when they play sports) basketball sneakers. Killing an animal to eat is wrong, but killing an animal to wear is ok?

:bricks:

Our society is full of hypocrisy. Thats just the way it is.

 

[swheeler23]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

I hear ya. Brady should win it by all accounts.

The problem is that this is a forgiving country that gets caught up in the moment and loves a great comeback story.

Better yet if Brady loses, he could use it as motivation ,right into the Super Bowl. Not that he needs any more motivation.

 

[Keegs]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Better yet if Brady loses, he could use it as motivation ,right into the Super Bowl. Not that he needs any more motivation.

yes i was thinking the exact same thing.

When do they decide who the mvp is?

if it pisses Tom off enough and he plays out of his mind and wins another SB, i hope he gets screwed out of the MVP.

 

[ivanvamp]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Our society is full of hypocrisy. Thats just the way it is.

Very true.

 

[swheeler23]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

yes i was thinking the exact same thing.

When do they decide who the mvp is?

if it pisses Tom off enough and he plays out of his mind and wins another SB, i hope he gets screwed out of the MVP.

Mvp , first week in January.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

With factory farming, they are compatible. Cheap meat is all about torture. It's not for sport, but for profit.

Admittedly, I don't know a whole lot about the practice of slaughtering animals en masse, but I'm pretty sure it would be inefficient to engage in the torturous practices that Vick did. It'd make a lot more sense just to kill the animal.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Better yet if Brady loses, he could use it as motivation ,right into the Super Bowl. Not that he needs any more motivation.

He may draw from it but like you said, he doesn't need it to go out and play his best.

I will bet my bottom dollar that while TB is feeding his son breakfast or cutting up some tofu for Gisele, hes thinking about how to get better.

 

[Haterproof]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Better yet if Brady loses, he could use it as motivation ,right into the Super Bowl. Not that he needs any more motivation.

I'm with you guys. I could care less about the MVP award. I want Brady to win his 3rd Pete Rozelle award.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

I also think equating a dog's life with a human life is abhorrent.

I'm not sure abhorrent is the word I would use. Both would be wrong. Valueing which is more wrong isn't really a worthwhile practice.

If someone wants to believe & argue that humans and animals have an equal right to exist on this Earth, they could probably put together a pretty cogent argument. I have no problem with that. Humans are just another animal. Intrinsically, I think you'd have trouble making the argument that human life is more valuable than any other life.

However, practically, I agree with you. Humans are worth more. Just because. And that's fine. And that's why I don't feel any regret when I enjoy a nice steak, or a pork loin. Our race is a carnivorous race, that is the social norm.

Torturing animal for sport, however, is not.

 

[ivanvamp]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

I'm with you guys. I could care less about the MVP award. I want Brady to win his 3rd Pete Rozelle award.

I agree. But in terms of a player's legacy (is Brady the greatest of all time?), MVP awards *do* factor into the discussion. So maybe he doesn't care about it, and clearly it is secondary to a SB title, but I think it would be an injustice for Vick (or anyone else) to win it this year.

 

[ivanvamp]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

I'm not sure abhorrent is the word I would use. Both would be wrong. Valueing which is more wrong isn't really a worthwhile practice.

If someone wants to believe & argue that humans and animals have an equal right to exist on this Earth, they could probably put together a pretty cogent argument. I have no problem with that. Humans are just another animal. Intrinsically, I think you'd have trouble making the argument that human life is more valuable than any other life.

However, practically, I agree with you. Humans are worth more. Just because. And that's fine. And that's why I don't feel any regret when I enjoy a nice steak, or a pork loin. Our race is a carnivorous race, that is the social norm.

Torturing animal for sport, however, is not.

Of course, if humans are just another animal, then morals are nothing more than social conventions, and there is therefore no truly objective right and wrong. And therefore, there is nothing objectively "wrong" about torturing animals for sport. It is precisely because humans are *not* "just another animal" that we can even have a rational discussion about whether torturing animals is objectively wrong.

(I know you referred to "social norms", which implies that you understand that the moral conversation is really subjective, if all we are is "another animal")

 

[Speedy Welker]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

You know what, I hope Brady not win the MVP. I just want to see him standing at the center of Cowboys stadium and held up another Lombardy Trophy in February and all these debate over Brady vs Manning vs Vick and whoever else will disappear like smoke in the wind.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

You know what, I hope Brady not win the MVP. I just want to see him standing at the center of Cowboys stadium and held up another Lombardy Trophy in February and all these debate over Brady vs Manning vs Vick and whoever else will disappear like smoke in the wind.

Why can't he win both?

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Of course, if humans are just another animal, then morals are nothing more than social conventions, and there is therefore no truly objective right and wrong. And therefore, there is nothing objectively "wrong" about torturing animals for sport. It is precisely because humans are *not* "just another animal" that we can even have a rational discussion about whether torturing animals is objectively wrong.

I think then the core of your argument would essentially be that level of cognizance determines the level of one's worth. Which would also get pretty tricky as humans themselves can have a rather wide range.

There's a hole to poke in any ethical/philosophical/moral argument.

Which is why I'm fine with dealing with the practical. Which gets back to my argument - there is an obvious difference between what Vick did and what a meat-eater does.

 

[Speedy Welker]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Why can't he win both?

I don't know, i'd rather like to see him win the SB and have manning kiss his ring

 

[upstater1]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

This thread is quickly going off on a huge tangent.

But since we're there D), I never understood the vegan/animal rights viewpoint, especially when some people I know who are vegans wear nice leather belts, sandals, and (when they play sports) basketball sneakers. Killing an animal to eat is wrong, but killing an animal to wear is ok?

:bricks:

I'm a carnivore. I'm just educated about how I do it these days. I challenged a good vet friend who ordered "pulled horse" (yes, horse) on the fact he ordered horse. He said he keeps animals healthy so he can eat them. That's my attitude too. I don't want horrible suffering so I can eat unhealthy meat. Plus, free range even tastes a whole lot better.

We might not be talking about the same thing unless you've actually seen things like gestation crates in use at factory farms.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

I don't know, i'd rather like to see him win the SB and have manning kiss his ring

Just don't let Rex kiss his feet.