OT: Zay Flowers: Ravens won't practice as hard

[Pape]

Zay Flowers: John Harbaugh made Ravens practice too hard, Jesse Minter won't

"That’s why we had a lot of injuries. Because of how we practiced, how we went. The load was heavy," Flowers said of Harbaugh's practices.

www.nbcsports.com

While I am not a fan of the Harbaughs (either of them), one has to admit (grudgingly) that the Ravens were a well coach team for the most part... When we played them, you knew you were going against a tough, hard nosed team, that played for the full 60 minutes... some of the toughest games we had during the dynasty years were against the Ravens...

Now that Harbaugh is gone, Zay flowers offers up the tidbit that he made the Ravens practice too hard, max allowable pads/contact practices... and that won't be the case with Jesse Minter...

This ain't gonna end well (record wise) for the Ravens I am thinking... take away that edge, that toughness, what do they got? nothing really...

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Football is an incredibly physically taxing game to play. Can practicing harder and with pads make you "tougher"? Sure. Can it interfere with physical recovery and lead to greater injury risk? Of course. So you have to balance that.

 

[Steve102]

Another WR who doesn't get it.

 

[Pape]

Football is an incredibly physically taxing game to play. Can practicing harder and with pads make you "tougher"? Sure. Can it interfere with physical recovery and lead to greater injury risk? Of course. So you have to balance that.

you know, if it were the 1980's again and players wore pads for every rep, two a days reigned, and trainers taped every nick, cut or bruise, slapped your helmet and said "good to go" you might have a valid point...

 

[Hugepatsfan]

you know, if it were the 1980's again and players wore pads for every rep, two a days reigned, and trainers taped every nick, cut or bruise, slapped your helmet and said "good to go" you might have a valid point...

Collisions weren't as high speed in the 80's. The players hitting each other weren't as big. There weren't as many short week games. The year round training wasn't the same. The physical toll the game takes on these players' bodies is soooo many multiples higher than it was in past eras.

If I go to the gym and do the same 5 chest muscle exercises for a week, I'm going to have high risk of injury and worse results because no recovery time. I can then take a whole month off from working out chest. But if I jump right back after than month and do the same exercises for a week straight again, I'm gonna have the same negative results. My body isn't going to "store" that month of rest to spread the benefits later. The clock is gonna reset. And in the same way, the players not doing two-a-days in training camp isn't going to "store up" rest for in-season.

Rest and recovery are incredibly important to peak athletic performance. The fact that we understand that is a big part of why the athletes today are so much faster and stronger.

In this Zay Flowers quote: "So he says, ‘You’re going to get your work, but it’s going to be a little easier on your body. You’re going to be fresher for the game.’" No one is saying don't practice hard at all, but a blanket approach of "just practice in pads as many days as allowed" as Harbough seemingly had seems like a pretty low IQ approach.

 

[Ross12]

The players have more full games now which is far more physically taxing than padded practices; however, they also have far fewer padded practices than they used to. So there is a balance as others have said. A coach can choose to have fewer padded practices in order to avoid injury risk in practice and keep his guys available for the real games, but that may also make them more prone to injury during the "real thing" if they are not as accustomed to the contact. I don't know which is "better" but I think having a squad more used to and more willing to go hit guys is better IMO. Maybe you have more walkthroughs in between to recover more, there's ways to balance it.

 

[yukon cornelius]

tackling has absolutely sucked across the league since the new rules went into effect

 

[Wozzy]

Everyone likes a “player’s coach,” until the losing starts and players are acting like boneheads off the field and getting arrested.

I’ll take the coach that works hard and makes his team work hard every time.

 

[Wozzy]

I don’t know what kind of coach Jesse Minter is either, but there’s a large possibility the Giants are going to improve greatly and the Ravens are going the opposite way. The Harbaughs are very good coaches… like them or not.

 

[Rob0729]

In fairness, everyone said that last year's training camp was the easiest training camp in Foxboro in decades. When the Patriots came out to a slow start, many people were questioning Vrabel whether he pushed the players hard enough in camp.

Today's players are different than ones in the past. And with the CBA rules, tough practices are really a thing of the past anyway. So most teams come out of the gate not completely ready. So I don't know if this will be a bad thing for Flowers and/or the Ravens until we see the results on the field.

 

[Family]

What about running hills?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Collisions weren't as high speed in the 80's. The players hitting each other weren't as big. There weren't as many short week games. The year round training wasn't the same. The physical toll the game takes on these players' bodies is soooo many multiples higher than it was in past eras.

If I go to the gym and do the same 5 chest muscle exercises for a week, I'm going to have high risk of injury and worse results because no recovery time. I can then take a whole month off from working out chest. But if I jump right back after than month and do the same exercises for a week straight again, I'm gonna have the same negative results. My body isn't going to "store" that month of rest to spread the benefits later. The clock is gonna reset. And in the same way, the players not doing two-a-days in training camp isn't going to "store up" rest for in-season.

Rest and recovery are incredibly important to peak athletic performance. The fact that we understand that is a big part of why the athletes today are so much faster and stronger.

Correct the 80s had smaller, "slower" players but they also more "vicious". Some hits back then are now penalties, targeting, and socially unacceptable.

In this Zay Flowers quote: "So he says, ‘You’re going to get your work, but it’s going to be a little easier on your body. You’re going to be fresher for the game.’" No one is saying don't practice hard at all, but a blanket approach of "just practice in pads as many days as allowed" as Harbough seemingly had seems like a pretty low IQ approach.

I don't agree Harbaugh's approach is low IQ. Hes educated in rest, recovery, etc. It's a coaching philosophy. He believes tough football players who know how to hit and tackle (and be hit/tackled and hang on to the ball) with solid technique win games and the way to do that is practice.

 

[Wozzy]

What about running hills?

This ^

Vrabel still had them running the hill and moving the sleds. You don’t need to hit more to work hard.

 

[Pape]

Collisions weren't as high speed in the 80's. The players hitting each other weren't as big. There weren't as many short week games. The year round training wasn't the same. The physical toll the game takes on these players' bodies is soooo many multiples higher than it was in past eras.

Are the guys demonstrably larger/stronger now vs the 80's? yeah, pretty much.
Do the players in the modern day NFL have better access to training? To science-y stuff? Have better pads/padding? better techniques? sure do.

One offsets each other for the most part.

If I go to the gym and do the same 5 chest muscle exercises for a week, I'm going to have high risk of injury and worse results because no recovery time.

This is a strawman that is arguing apples and oranges. Modern day NFL rules limits the number of full contact days. Limits the use of Pads in practice. Harbaugh was using the same number of allowed practices as every one else. A better strawman would be - If you are training for a boxing match, who will have the better results?
Boxer A - the guy who works out, does cardio, etc, doesn't spar during his camp
Boxer B- the guy who works out, does the cardio, does have sparring sessions during his camp

Rest and recovery are incredibly important to peak athletic performance. The fact that we understand that is a big part of why the athletes today are so much faster and stronger.

never said they weren't...

In this Zay Flowers quote: "So he says, ‘You’re going to get your work, but it’s going to be a little easier on your body. You’re going to be fresher for the game.’" No one is saying don't practice hard at all, but a blanket approach of "just practice in pads as many days as allowed" as Harbough seemingly had seems like a pretty low IQ approach.

you do realize that the CBA limits the number of padded practices 16 during Camp, 18 in the regular season, right?

thats not a lot.

 

[Patsfan1645]

Their identity walked out the door when he left.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Their identity walked out the door when he left.

The Ravens have had the same identity going back to Brian Billick/Ozzie Newsome of the late 90s.

DeCosta is Newsome's protege. I don't see their tough-team identity changing.

 

[Pape]

DeCosta is Newsome's protege. I don't see their tough-team identity changing.

Everything changes, given enough time. It will depend on how Minter runs his team.

 

[hornetfb85]

Another WR who doesn't get it.

 

[Patsfan1645]

The Ravens have had the same identity going back to Brian Billick/Ozzie Newsome of the late 90s.

DeCosta is Newsome's protege. I don't see their tough-team identity changing.

Time will tell.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Everything changes, given enough time. It will depend on how Minter runs his team.

Sure but it's DeCosta and Biscotti who vetted Minter. They like tough teams and liked him. Now he may suck as a coach but I don't see BAL turning into bunch of cupcake sissies