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More on AdamV, his new agent and WillieMcG

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Pats726

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UBERSTINE ASKING FOR SCRUTINY?
Although agent Gary Uberstine was not in violation of NFLPA regulations if he initiated contact with former Pats kicker Adam Vinatieri about a potential agent change (scroll down for more on this), the apparent involvement of former Pats linebacker Willie McGinest in the recruitment of Vinatieri could invite scrutiny.
Section 3(B) of the regs sets forth a laundry list of prohibited actions. The violations include "[f]ailing to disclose in writing to any player represented by Contract Advisor any fee paid or received by Contract Advisor to or from a third party in return for providing services to that player." So if, for example, McGinest gets a piece of the fee that Uberstine will be paid as a result of Vinatieri's new deal with the Colts -- and if Uberstine didn't disclose this fact in writing -- then Uberstine could be on the wrong side of the rule.
The fact that Uberstine and McGinnest and Snoop Dogg have formed a business aimed at assisting athletes with marketing potential enhances the possibility that Uberstine has thrown a bone to McGinest for delivering Vinatieri.
As to the question of whether Uberstine solicited Vinatieri, either on his own or through McGinest, keep in mind that the regs permit contact with players who have less than 60 days remaining on their player contracts (and, presumably, after their contracts expire). The more troubling question is whether Uberstine was actually working on behalf of Vinatieri before he terminated the Neil Cornrich group. Although Colts president Bill Polian has since attempted to blur prior admissions indicating that there was an overlap, it appears that Uberstine was working the Colts while Vinatieri was still being serviced by the Cornrich clan.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
 
More and more proof that Adam did not want to be here... Him and Willie wanted out, and they got out...
 
wow

Pats726 said:
UBERSTINE ASKING FOR SCRUTINY?
Although agent Gary Uberstine was not in violation of NFLPA regulations if he initiated contact with former Pats kicker Adam Vinatieri about a potential agent change (scroll down for more on this), the apparent involvement of former Pats linebacker Willie McGinest in the recruitment of Vinatieri could invite scrutiny.
Section 3(B) of the regs sets forth a laundry list of prohibited actions. The violations include "[f]ailing to disclose in writing to any player represented by Contract Advisor any fee paid or received by Contract Advisor to or from a third party in return for providing services to that player." So if, for example, McGinest gets a piece of the fee that Uberstine will be paid as a result of Vinatieri's new deal with the Colts -- and if Uberstine didn't disclose this fact in writing -- then Uberstine could be on the wrong side of the rule.
The fact that Uberstine and McGinnest and Snoop Dogg have formed a business aimed at assisting athletes with marketing potential enhances the possibility that Uberstine has thrown a bone to McGinest for delivering Vinatieri.
As to the question of whether Uberstine solicited Vinatieri, either on his own or through McGinest, keep in mind that the regs permit contact with players who have less than 60 days remaining on their player contracts (and, presumably, after their contracts expire). The more troubling question is whether Uberstine was actually working on behalf of Vinatieri before he terminated the Neil Cornrich group. Although Colts president Bill Polian has since attempted to blur prior admissions indicating that there was an overlap, it appears that Uberstine was working the Colts while Vinatieri was still being serviced by the Cornrich clan.http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Wow, with as much back peddaling as Polian does, mabey he should play for the dolts as a db!
 
I doubt if anything will come of this because while it may have come as a surprise to some it was public knowledge that Willie is in a partnership with Snoop (ugh) and Uberstein. I'm sure his close friends and now former teamates were well aware of that fact.

And it's debatable (almost laughable) to say Adam was being "serviced by the Cornrich clan" in a positive sense. The negative connotation could well be one the Cornich "clan" prefers to let slide. Remember, they only managed one visit for their client in the first week of FA while the second ranked FA kicker signed a very similar deal in Minnesota on day one, and two other obvious suitors were apparently under the impression Adam was not really available, and a third team who missed out on Longwell after being rumored the front runner for AV immediately re-signed their existing kicker.

I don't think either of these players wanted out. I think they were not willing to stay here for substantially less. And the fact is the team either vastly misjudged their market or didn't really want either back unless it was at a one sided value price each would have been financially foolish to accept.

Willie could have afforded to make that choice, he chose not to for reasons he alluded to but chose not to detail. Adam couldn't afford to and had nothing but praise for this organization. He chose 3-4 years essentially guaranteed at $7.5-9.5M. His alternative were a little less to kick in a vicious environment at Lambeau, a few million less to possibly end up in Dallas, or several million less to stay with us year to year at our discretion.
 
I learned a bit more about this story today. Apparently, Vinatieri was in contact with Parcells trying to get a contract with the Cowboys. With or without Cornrich I do not know and wasn't told.

Parcells was pulling the hair out of his head trying to get Vinatieri to realize that the $1 million or so less he would make from the Patriots would be more than offset...WAY MORE...by the fact that he is now and would have been upon retirement (maybe right now) anywhere form #3 to #5 on the list of all time Boston/New England sports icons. That's worth alot of Bling in speaking fees and endorsements.

So Parcells did not sign him for both the above reason and Adam was a bit pricey also. Nice to hear a good Parcells story I thought...he takes alot of heat himself.

Now...here is where my info got real juicey...McGinest does not want or needs to be involved in this at all. WHY??? Because he had a contract in principle with the Browns around mid-season of 2005. No mention either way of Uberstein here...possible brought in at the final minute to lend credibility to the contract...and wanted a few more for his risk. This is why Belichick has been so silent on the McGinest stories. Perhaps Bill new last year Willie would be gone this year???

Either way...he got more money there than he would have made here so it seems like no big deal...except for the contract in principal part which though hard to prove...is wrong. But, at least we now know why all those teams that were interested in Mcginest were never given the time of day. McGinest and the Browns waited a bit to make it all look good.

One more piece of info I got...not related here but it's too minor to make a thread about. Patrick Pass is 22lbs overweight...Expect Belichick to bring at least 2 FB's into camp through 1 at the end of the draft and 1 FA or 2 FA's. This story is relevant because it adds intrigue to the Patriots picking a RB in the top 2 rounds...Pass is not being counted on at this point in time unless he gets in shape real quick.
 
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McGi est had a contract with Cleveland when??? Last year?? If that COULD be proved..that indeed would be tampering..BIG TIME!! SOurces for that at all??? Pass overweight by that much??? That is NOT good for he is very versatile...
 
Pats726 said:
McGi est had a contract with Cleveland when??? Last year?? If that COULD be proved..that indeed would be tampering..BIG TIME!! SOurces for that at all??? Pass overweight by that much??? That is NOT good for he is very versatile...

I don't want to say because I need to prove my loyalty to get more...i think it will come out at some point. I didn't want to make a thread so as to keep it low key...I was looking for a thread where it might fit in. I hope it's good info...because i want more................
 
F.B.N. said:
I don't want to say because I need to prove my loyalty to get more...i think it will come out at some point. I didn't want to make a thread so as to keep it low key...I was looking for a thread where it might fit in. I hope it's good info...because i want more................
Understood...a mole....I think the Pass one is interesting as well...I am surprised because he IS a player that can play in a few positions if needed.
 
We all know what Parcells said about Adam being better served remaining in Boston. But if he told him that personally knowing that the Pats deal was offering no guaranteed money, then he either can't do math or he too underestimated the kicker market. He ended up with a guy who chokes in the clutch and can't handle KO for $300K less a season so I'm not so sure his judgement here is rational. Adam will get a lot more money - several million in fact - under the Indy deal than he could have reasonably expected to see here. He is not going to be kicking in Podunk, either, so I doubt his name recognition will drop substantially. We don't always do as good a job securing HOF slots for our guys as some other areas do. Have a good season with the Colts and bolster his clutch reputation and he could even enhance his post career value nationally even while it may diminish somewhat here.

I suppose the Willie thing could be true - who knows more about backdoor deals than Tuna. That might have something to do with those things going on in NE Willie didn't want to get specific about. After all, Romeo would have known even moreso than the players if there were backdoor arrangements underlying some of the hardline and lowball deals our FA had seen emanating from Foxboro over the last few years as well. Lots of folks here want to rail about Uberstein/Willie, few seem to want to even consider the Cornrich/BB connection.

And we will see whether your source is on the mark when Pass shows up shortly for the off season program.
 
F.B.N. said:
Patrick Pass is 22lbs overweight...Expect Belichick to bring at least 2 FB's into camp through 1 at the end of the draft and 1 FA or 2 FA's. This story is relevant because it adds intrigue to the Patriots picking a RB in the top 2 rounds...Pass is not being counted on at this point in time unless he gets in shape real quick.
It also explains, to me, the re-signing of Heath Evans which, otherwise, would seem like a superfluous waste of time.

If you are able to keep your source, if you are able to post anything you may consider going to some system where you italicize (or whatever) anything you get from him so it would look like your opinion but we would know otherwise.
 
MoLewisrocks said:
And we will see whether your source is on the mark when Pass shows up shortly for the off season program.

We re-signed heath Evans today...bring in a few and let the competiton begin. The Pass thing surprised me...I wondered last year if he indeed has become a better runner...so it sounds a bit weird to hear he got fat. But, he is at the age where weight control is very difficult for some people due to genes...boy do i know that one.

In any case...we could be looking at a whole new backfield in 2 years, that much seems extremely likely.
 
F.B.N. said:
We re-signed heath Evans today...bring in a few and let the competiton begin. The Pass thing surprised me...I wondered last year if he indeed has become a better runner...so it sounds a bit weird to hear he got fat. But, he is at the age where weight control is very difficult for some people due to genes...boy do i know that one.

In any case...we could be looking at a whole new backfield in 2 years, that much seems extremely likely.
If I understood you correctly, Pass reported for the off-season program 22 pounds overweight? I agree and sympathize with the weight maintanence battle, wish I hadn't hit that at such an early age - blasted grandparents anyway! I can't help but wonder if Pass' workouts were affected by his hamstring injury, it certainly is a cause for concern with the kids doing their Combine/Pro-day workouts. It would seem to me that an 'ancient' fellow like Pass would have an even harder time in recovery.

A whole new backfield seems inevitable, we've basically gotten a whole new WR corps this year.
 
BelichickFan said:
It also explains, to me, the re-signing of Heath Evans which, otherwise, would seem like a superfluous waste of time.

If you are able to keep your source, if you are able to post anything you may consider going to some system where you italicize (or whatever) anything you get from him so it would look like your opinion but we would know otherwise.


FBN - stay true to your source, but do indeed feed us - inquiring minds need to know. I had information on the Givens & Brady injuries last year and dissemenated it in such a fashion so as to never compromise my source, yet still update and confirm speculation.
 
This should be in the "Interleague Forum". j/k
 
MoLewisrocks said:
We all know what Parcells said about Adam being better served remaining in Boston. But if he told him that personally knowing that the Pats deal was offering no guaranteed money, then he either can't do math or he too underestimated the kicker market. He ended up with a guy who chokes in the clutch and can't handle KO for $300K less a season so I'm not so sure his judgement here is rational. Adam will get a lot more money - several million in fact - under the Indy deal than he could have reasonably expected to see here. He is not going to be kicking in Podunk, either, so I doubt his name recognition will drop substantially. We don't always do as good a job securing HOF slots for our guys as some other areas do. Have a good season with the Colts and bolster his clutch reputation and he could even enhance his post career value nationally even while it may diminish somewhat here.

Mo -
As it turns out, the Patriots DID offer some guaranteed money.
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2006/03/31/bruschi_remains_at_core/?page=2
What I find hilarious about Cafardo's article is that he puts all the blame for the poor negotiations on the Patriots and none on Adam himself. He seems to have forgotten that Adam was the one who made it ALL about the money. And he seems to have missed that Adam was the one who took forever and a day to hire a new agent.

I honestly don't know where you get that Adam's contract guarantees him making make several million MORE than the contract that the Patriots offered him. Considering you don't have the numbers from the contract that the Patriots offered him that supposedly didn't have any gauranteed money in it, I'd say you are taking a wild stab in the dark.

Also, INDY is PODUNK. Not to mention that Adam hasn't done ANYTHING to help Indy win a game yet. So, its going to take 2-3 years MINIMUM for Adam to be a name in Indy.
 
I don't know which teamate said it but I'm inclined to think he hit the nail on the head:

''By the time the Patriots got serious, I think the horse was out of the barn," said one of Vinatieri's ex-Patriot teammates."

From what we have heard in the last few days apparently Adam was never really without representation courtesy of the Cornrich agency. It just wasn't very effective representation.

If we were in fact inclined to try to match or at least come close to matching the offer the Colts made, then I guess that shoots holes in the twilight of his career theory. Sometimes when you want to keep a player or even sign him for a little less you have to be proactive. Allowing them to walk into the wine and dine environment of FA and basically placing the burden on them to prove to you their market is substantially better than your offers is just inviting the kind of contrasting style comparisons where yours may ultimately lose out because it's worn thin.

Although if you think you have the inside track because of history with that player or his representatives, I can see why you might just hang tough for what you assumed was is an inevitable win-win (retain the player and win the negotiation battle). It's just that when that strategy backfires, as it has this season and may increasingly in the future, it frankly sucks all the way around. We're playing financial chicken with guys we actually need in the midst of the Brady window.

As for Adam's national popularity kicking in Pudunk, LOL. He's already a legend in Indy, and the first time he kicks a game winner for them they'll start building him a statue just a little smaller than Peymeaton's and Marvins. He's kicking for the (once again) Vegas pre season favorite and he'll get just as much exposure and maybe individually more because of the irony of this particular signing.

Tennessee overpaid for Givens in a tight market. RAC overpaid for Willie because like with Andruzzi he needs system leaders. I don't believe we should have overpaid for either even in this tight market. But I'm not convinced we couldn't have kept one or both at a more reasonable rate had we just handled each a little differently in the months preceeding FA.

I said all along Adam was not looking for the hysterical numbers that folks were throwing around here and in the local media. We didn't lose him to $3M+ per year or a $5M signing bonus from a Jerry Jones. We lost him to 5/$11.5M/$3.5M bonus and an aav of $2.3M per. Cap hit this year a million less than his cap hit last year.

I don't think Indy overpaid for Adam. And if we were in fact trying to match up to the market once push came to shove, then I guess we don't think he was overpaid either. And if that's the case, we made a potentially costly miscalculation 'cause he's not here any more and there aren't any viable alternatives readily available.

But hey, I guess we showed him.
 
MoLewisrocks said:
I don't know which teamate said it but I'm inclined to think he hit the nail on the head:

''By the time the Patriots got serious, I think the horse was out of the barn," said one of Vinatieri's ex-Patriot teammates."

From what we have heard in the last few days apparently Adam was never really without representation courtesy of the Cornrich agency. It just wasn't very effective representation.

If we were in fact inclined to try to match or at least come close to matching the offer the Colts made, then I guess that shoots holes in the twilight of his career theory. Sometimes when you want to keep a player or even sign him for a little less you have to be proactive. Allowing them to walk into the wine and dine environment of FA and basically placing the burden on them to prove to you their market is substantially better than your offers is just inviting the kind of contrasting style comparisons where yours may ultimately lose out because it's worn thin.

Although if you think you have the inside track because of history with that player or his representatives, I can see why you might just hang tough for what you assumed was is an inevitable win-win (retain the player and win the negotiation battle). It's just that when that strategy backfires, as it has this season and may increasingly in the future, it frankly sucks all the way around. We're playing financial chicken with guys we actually need in the midst of the Brady window.

As for Adam's national popularity kicking in Pudunk, LOL. He's already a legend in Indy, and the first time he kicks a game winner for them they'll start building him a statue just a little smaller than Peymeaton's and Marvins. He's kicking for the (once again) Vegas pre season favorite and he'll get just as much exposure and maybe individually more because of the irony of this particular signing.

Tennessee overpaid for Givens in a tight market. RAC overpaid for Willie because like with Andruzzi he needs system leaders. I don't believe we should have overpaid for either even in this tight market. But I'm not convinced we couldn't have kept one or both at a more reasonable rate had we just handled each a little differently in the months preceeding FA.

I said all along Adam was not looking for the hysterical numbers that folks were throwing around here and in the local media. We didn't lose him to $3M+ per year or a $5M signing bonus from a Jerry Jones. We lost him to 5/$11.5M/$3.5M bonus and an aav of $2.3M per. Cap hit this year a million less than his cap hit last year.

I don't think Indy overpaid for Adam. And if we were in fact trying to match up to the market once push came to shove, then I guess we don't think he was overpaid either. And if that's the case, we made a potentially costly miscalculation 'cause he's not here any more and there aren't any viable alternatives readily available.

But hey, I guess we showed him.
The Patriots were never given an opportunity to match it and AV signed in 45 minutes..me thinks he wanted out of NE...how serious can one get when one doesn't have an agent?? Maybe both sides are to blame for this happening..the way EEI explained it would be more money because of the cap and how much it would cost to cut him. It will be interesting to see what happens.
 
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