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Harold Landry Update

DaBruinz

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I didn't see this posted..



The Musketfire article says this but also references the Patriots Notebook article from Mike Reiss on
April 5th (linked below)



 
At this point of his career, he doesn't win his pass rush matchups anymore. But he is a high effort guy and an experienced, heady player who can be used in stunts for those "scheme" pressures. Even with the high sack total to start last year and his final season in TEN, that's how he got those sacks. He wasn't much of a threat overall besides that. I think in an ideal world he'd be an early down starter who can capably set the edge and contribute as a rusher in those schemed looks, but then in the more obvious passing situations he'd come out for someone who can just WIN their pass rush matchups on their own.
 
At this point of his career, he doesn't win his pass rush matchups anymore. But he is a high effort guy and an experienced, heady player who can be used in stunts for those "scheme" pressures. Even with the high sack total to start last year and his final season in TEN, that's how he got those sacks. He wasn't much of a threat overall besides that. I think in an ideal world he'd be an early down starter who can capably set the edge and contribute as a rusher in those schemed looks, but then in the more obvious passing situations he'd come out for someone who can just WIN their pass rush matchups on their own.
Agreed, I think he is probably a guy who plays ~50% of the snaps and is the beneficiary of scheme. Dre'Mont Jones is probably nearly an every-down starter on the other side, and Landry rotates with younger players, including Ponder, Swinson, and whoever gets drafted this year.
 
All hands on deck. Its a position we need depth at as well as one more quality starter.
A healthy Landry will help.
We'll see about the draft.
The only way to go is BPA. Would be nice if it broke so that either a rt or edge happened to be bpa at 31.
If a guy's really close to bpa, no more than 2 or 3 spots worse, and he's a rt or edge, no problem, grab him.
Of course, the rankings are the team's internal rankings not all these clowns who call themselves pundits rankings. Some know their stuff but many don't. Or have agendas.
I trust this regime to make the best decision
 
All hands on deck. Its a position we need depth at as well as one more quality starter.
A healthy Landry will help.
We'll see about the draft.
The only way to go is BPA. Would be nice if it broke so that either a rt or edge happened to be bpa at 31.
If a guy's really close to bpa, no more than 2 or 3 spots worse, and he's a rt or edge, no problem, grab him.
Of course, the rankings are the team's internal rankings not all these clowns who call themselves pundits rankings. Some know their stuff but many don't. Or have agendas.
I trust this regime to make the best decision
This! At this point Landry is a leader, a veteran presence but he's not a guy that i believe is going be some huge difference maker at edge. I'll remain bullish our best pass rusher right now is Dre Jones! Landry whatever we get from him will be appreciated.. however Jones needs a partner across from him. And that guy is likely waiting for his name to be called soon at # 31... I too trust this staff to get the right guys!
 
All hands on deck. Its a position we need depth at as well as one more quality starter.
A healthy Landry will help.
We'll see about the draft.
The only way to go is BPA. Would be nice if it broke so that either a rt or edge happened to be bpa at 31.
If a guy's really close to bpa, no more than 2 or 3 spots worse, and he's a rt or edge, no problem, grab him.
Of course, the rankings are the team's internal rankings not all these clowns who call themselves pundits rankings. Some know their stuff but many don't. Or have agendas.
I trust this regime to make the best decision
No such thing at BPA. It's always BPA taking into consideration team need.

I've been saying that Vrabel will have a tough choice at 31 if both the RT and Edge players he wants are there.
 
No such thing at BPA. It's always BPA taking into consideration team need.

I've been saying that Vrabel will have a tough choice at 31 if both the RT and Edge players he wants are there.
That will be tough. Which proves that your first sentence is true.
The ends of both sides of the LOS is a need. But, IMO - the DE/Edge is a more critical need, and tends to be harder to find - relying on superior physical traits than RT. The Patriots have been able to find very competent starters at RG/RT from mid positions in draft or UDFA (Ashworth, Neal, Kazcur, Mason, Cannon, Onwenu)
 
Agreed, I think he is probably a guy who plays ~50% of the snaps and is the beneficiary of scheme. Dre'Mont Jones is probably nearly an every-down starter on the other side, and Landry rotates with younger players, including Ponder, Swinson, and whoever gets drafted this year.
As currently constructed. We have 5 Starters on the offensive line that you would enter a game if it were played today.

One cannot say the same for the defensive edge.

I'll remain bullish that edge has to be addressed with #31.. the pass rush significantly helps the offense.

Look at what Houston & Denver team's with ferocious pass rushes are able to do for their offenses.. getting Drake the ball back at the 50 or inside the 40 from a sack on 3rd down.. or INTs, sack fumbles. The more opportunities you give your offense due to a pass rush and getting off the feild on 3rd down the better. Of course protect is vital as well. However we have a solid starting 5.. we don't have a presumed starter opposite Dre Jones right now.
 
Landry is solid healthy. Not sure he is the 900 snap guy anymore. Maybe less is more?
 
I have been aboard the Edge/RT bandwagon pretty much this entire off season, BUT I'm beginning to wonder if grabbing the best LB available might not fit a bigger need. It's not that a RT doesn't make sense as well. It's just that whoever we draft at THAT position is likely to be a backup/depth player for this season. And if we don't find a successor to Moses later in this draft, we will have another chance to replace him in the next year's FA and draft classes.

Edge has always been my position of need, but all the edge guys who look like they MIGHT be there at the bottom of the first or the top of the 2nd (if we decide to trade down a bit) come with risks and questions in their games. In fact most of this year's edge guys come with issues ranging from the dreaded short arm syndrome to speed, length, and explosive issues. Then of course, there is always conundrum of great 'traits" that don't equate with the production question.

So in the end I'm coming to the conclusion that in the first 2 days of the draft, we need to simply take the top name on our draft board REGARDLESS of position and live with the results. We will have 5 picks in the first 4 rounds and we really need to hit on at LEAST 4 of them to keep last year's rookie momentum going. After that we are mostly dealing with glorified UDFA quality players and if we hit on 2 or 3 of those 6 selections I'd consider this draft a raging success.

Last year we got 5 full time starters out of the draft and one rotational player (Henderson) who got a lot of snaps. Then we had others like Farmer and Ponder who got occasional snaps. It was an extraordinary draft class. This year if we end up with 4 of the 11 picks end up being starts within 3 years, I'll be thrilled. That's the difference to picking at the top of every round vs the bottom. It usually takes longer for your picks to develop.
 
I have been aboard the Edge/RT bandwagon pretty much this entire off season, BUT I'm beginning to wonder if grabbing the best LB available might not fit a bigger need. It's not that a RT doesn't make sense as well. It's just that whoever we draft at THAT position is likely to be a backup/depth player for this season. And if we don't find a successor to Moses later in this draft, we will have another chance to replace him in the next year's FA and draft classes.

Edge has always been my position of need, but all the edge guys who look like they MIGHT be there at the bottom of the first or the top of the 2nd (if we decide to trade down a bit) come with risks and questions in their games. In fact most of this year's edge guys come with issues ranging from the dreaded short arm syndrome to speed, length, and explosive issues. Then of course, there is always conundrum of great 'traits" that don't equate with the production question.

So in the end I'm coming to the conclusion that in the first 2 days of the draft, we need to simply take the top name on our draft board REGARDLESS of position and live with the results. We will have 5 picks in the first 4 rounds and we really need to hit on at LEAST 4 of them to keep last year's rookie momentum going. After that we are mostly dealing with glorified UDFA quality players and if we hit on 2 or 3 of those 6 selections I'd consider this draft a raging success.

Last year we got 5 full time starters out of the draft and one rotational player (Henderson) who got a lot of snaps. Then we had others like Farmer and Ponder who got occasional snaps. It was an extraordinary draft class. This year if we end up with 4 of the 11 picks end up being starts within 3 years, I'll be thrilled. That's the difference to picking at the top of every round vs the bottom. It usually takes longer for your picks to develop.

I agree that off the ball linebacker is a big need, and because the position is undervalued there could be some really good ones available at 31.
 
No such thing at BPA. It's always BPA taking into consideration team need.
 
Hopefully he stays healthy, they need the depth. Gabe Jacas would be a nice addition.
 
No such thing at BPA. It's always BPA taking into consideration team need.

I've been saying that Vrabel will have a tough choice at 31 if both the RT and Edge players he wants are there.
I disagree. Let's say your biggest needs are qb and dt but there's only mediocre qbs and dts on the board. But there's a stud safety which you dont really need.
No-brainer you draft the safety. Now you have improved your team with a quality player.
The 2 mediocre picks do not improve your team. What you're saying is what bad football teams do.
You never reach. Never. Period.
If a position of need is not the best bpa but is not far away- then,yes you draft him.
But you dont reach. That's what the Jete do.
 
So you're saying you reach for a much inferior player?
Why "much inferior"? No need to be so hyperbolic.

If you need a LB, and the BPA is a RB, whatcha taking?

simply stated, the deficiencies of the team always should be kept in mind.
 
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Why "much inferior"? No need to be so hyperbolic.

If you need a LB, and the BPA is a RB, whatcha taking?
Like I said in my original post, if a position of need is not the best bpa but is close, then you draft him.
But you don't reach for a player who's not close to being the bpa.
This is the most  basic of draft rules.
So if the LB is 10+ spots worse on your personal board, you dont draft him.
 
Like I said in my original post, if a position of need is not the best bpa but is close, then you draft him.
But you don't reach for a player who's not close to being the bpa.
This is the most  basic of draft rules.
So if the LB is 10+ spots worse on your personal board, you dont draft him.
Yup.
Eagles have been really good at letting the draft come to them and taking superior talent even if it's not a need.
I firmly believe Edge is our biggest need, but if we get to 31 and your highest rated Edge available is someone you have ranked 40th, and there's a RT that slips that you have ranked 25th, you absolutely take the tackle. Same can be said for just about any position outside of QB.
 
Like I said in my original post, if a position of need is not the best bpa but is close, then you draft him.
But you don't reach for a player who's not close to being the bpa.
This is the most  basic of draft rules.
So if the LB is 10+ spots worse on your personal board, you dont draft him.
which is exactly what @DaBruinz said

adding comments like "reach" to the point is just trying to reframe the discussion to protect the sacred cow that "bpa" has become

you don't act in a vacuum - bpa is a vacuum without the necessary context of "need"... just saying bpa is ******ed... its a stupid philosophy afaiac... ymmv
 
which is exactly what @DaBruinz said

adding comments like "reach" to the point is just trying to reframe the discussion to protect the sacred cow that "bpa" has become

you don't act in a vacuum - bpa is a vacuum without the necessary context of "need"... just saying bpa is ******ed... its a stupid philosophy afaiac...
Your reading comprehension needs work.
Go back and read my original post.
I said position of need  if theyre not far off from being bpa. If you draft a position of need and the player is 10+ spots worse., that's a reach. Duh. That is what zDaBruinz was implying. Otherwise why did he even respond to my post ?
 
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Mark Morse
2 weeks ago
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