Vrabel working out Max I at ASU pro day

Real fan 02 · Mar 30, 2026

RxJock1120 said:
No one and I don't think Wallace sticks for another year.

But honestly from what we saw Drake do last year it was all worth it!

Agreed! This is likely Wallace last chance to show something and be on the roster..as there will be stiff competition at his position.. yes Drake was the only thing that saved that 2024 draft if we can even call it that!

Real fan 02 · Mar 30, 2026

n1997y said:
Vrabel is getting noticed. There are at least a half dozen versions of that video on YouTube. There’s easily a half million views across all of them. I wonder how many of those are players at all levels from hs to pro trying to figure out what Vrabes is telling him. I’d bet Max got some calls from his friends asking about what he was doing.

Only problem is there are probably now 31 teams expecting the Pats to draft him.

I’m more and more enthusiastic about the idea of a smash mouth running offense. I’m even ready to see a road grader OL drafted before edge to help make it happen. Although I’d love to see a dominant edge player on the roster too.

I really love both the Gilliam and Hill signings, especially for what it says about the attitude on offense.

I think Vrabel wants to play smash mouth football on both sides of the ball, and I’m okay with that.

Spot on! Vrabel has said he's not rebuilding he's remodeling. That's exactly what they are doing. Reinforcing the trenches.

Yeah the footage of it didn't have sound so all we could see was just how Vrabel was showing the OL technique and teaching methods. Love it!

I think the organization has been targeting day 1 proverbial starters at edge.. inclinations are That's who the team's taking at 31 a bonifide edge to pair with Dre Jones.. as mentioned until we can see Landry physically in camp and having the same burst ( wich i doubt) until then whoever we take at 31 is likely a starter IMO..

Yes Gilliam is a load and can catch it to now.. it was embarrassing on 3rd and short especially in the red zone.. that game against the Bengals was an embarrassing sequence and one of the reasons Bradbury was traded. Need more push from the C position.

Another thing of note Doubs is one of the best man coverage beaters in the league.. we struggled against man last season wich is ebe crazy to think because pop Douglas was our most elusive wr and with Boutte's great hands and Diggs supreme route running it was a mystery why they all couldn't beat man..

Doubs is an upgrade. Also I still believe we add another veteran at edge to be in the rotation at some point this off season.

RxJock1120 · Mar 30, 2026

loosebearing said:
Your question got me thinking - so I just went through 20 mock drafts and as a consensus the following could most likely be the players available at Picks 31and 63 (Sorry for it being such a long post)

Pick 31 Players who should be available but will be gone by pick 63 (in order by least likely available to most likely)

OT
Blake Miller Clemson
Max Iheanachor Arizona State
Austin Barber Florida

WR
K.C. Conception Texas A & M
Denzel Boston Washington
Bernie Bernard Alabama

TE
Eli Stowers Vanderbilt

Edge
Keldrick Faulk Auburn
Akheem Mesidor Miami
Cashius Howell Texas A & M
T.J. Parker Clemson
Zion Young Missouri

Safety
Dillon Thieneman Oregon
McNeil-Warren Toledo

LB
Jacob Rodriquez Texas Tech

Pick 63 Players who should be available but gone by pick 95 (in order by least likely available to most likely)

OG
Chase Bisontis Texas A & M
Emmanuel Pregnon Oregon
Gennings Dunker Iowa

WR
Malachi Fields Notre Dame
Chris Brazzell Tennessee

TE
Sam Roush Stanford
Max Klare Ohio State

Edge
Malachi Lawrence UCF
Jaishawn Barham Michigan
Keyron Crawford Auburn

Safety
A.J. Haulcy LSU
Jalon Kilgore South Carolina

LB
Jake Golday Cincinnati
C.J. Allen Georgia

If you can only pick one from each group - who would they be. (Or would you trade to pick up one more ?) Interesting dilemma

TJ Parker, Anthony Hill, Keldrick Faulk, Max Iheanachor, Denzel Boston in that order. Would be extremely thrilled with either TJ Parker or Anthony Hill.

imahobgoblin · Mar 30, 2026

pazrul72 said:
I wasn't talking scheme I was talking personnel and the type of players they are pretty clearly in my mind targeting. I love power smash mouth football, 04 Corey Dillion is my favorite RB because you could just see in the 4th quarter we knew we were running, they knew we were running, and the other guys just quit cuz they didn't want to tackle him anymore.

They aren't signing and drafting big powerful movers of men for a power rushing attack. Owenu despite being our best o lineman is likely gone next year because he isn't athletic and mobile. The profile of guys they are adding values quicks and athleticism over size and power, the RB they drafted is about speed, hitting a hole and taking it to the house.

I don't think EP or West Coast or whatever scheme makes a difference to the kind of plays you can call. We've seen Josh run everything from a traditional I formation to two TE to spread all out of EP. EP is just the way plays are communicated, instead of 13 Comanche x dig y crosser z go it's simply called crossers. It's the exact same play with the exact same goals just with more flexibility to read coverage and adjust routes based on the coverage. Based on what I've seen from Vrable I think he values hitting the big play with zone run philosophy over the consistency of being able to move the ball with a power run philosophy and his draft and signings back that up.

I am sorry, but you are just wrong. Our offensive scheme makes an absolute difference with the kind of plays called and players selected. From a coaching standpoint, you could not be more wrong. Yes, Owenu's contract expires next year. He had the best season of his career in 2025 and could be a candidte for an extension and lowering the team cap. The Pats just brought in his clone for a pre-draft interview in Auburn’s Jeremiah Wright. I mean the dude is a twin to Owenu. He has a road grader attitude that Owenu does not have and just kills people in the run game. If they are researching guys like this, it says that their scheme is based on power run. Of course Josh incorporates other plays from zone into a playbook. Every OC mixes things up so they are not predictable. The modern NFL playbooks all have overlap. That is not the point. Vrabel does not run the offense, nor does he need to. Josh is a wizard in the EPS. Everyone values hitting a big play with zone run, but you seem to think big plays don't come out of power gap. You don't build your offense based on 50 yard runs, you just equip it with the tools in order to do so with a package base that carries the work load. Modern teams need to have both zone and gap, but they also have a base. Again, the EPS typically does that out of power run, and I can't see that changing. There is no reason to change it.

Why aren't they signing or drafting drafting big powerful movers of men for a power rushing attack? Did you not see Alijah Vera-Tucker at 6'5" and 308lbs? He is highly effective in within power-run and gap schemes. The dude certainly is a mover of men, but is also quick and finishes his blocks downfield. James Hudson III is 6'5" and 313 lbs. His stint with the Giants was a disaster, but not so with the Browns when he was with Vrabel. He struggled with pass protection, but you look at his run blocking. He was noted for his aggressive approach in the run game, described as a "bully" who could effectively drive and ground defenders using his hands, often displaying a "nasty streak." This screams power run.

PatsFan2 · Mar 30, 2026

Real fan 02 said:
Agreed! This is likely Wallace last chance to show something and be on the roster..as there will be stiff competition at his position.. yes Drake was the only thing that saved that 2024 draft if we can even call it that!

Twin Caedan Wallace is garbage like the Majority of that Drake Maye only Draft.

Real fan 02 · Mar 30, 2026

PatsFan2 said:
Twin Caedan Wallace is garbage like the Majority of that Drake Maye only Draft.

You're right twin!! Pathetic draft.. I'm surprised that was even recorded as a draft class...

Huckleberry1 · Mar 30, 2026

loosebearing said:
Your question got me thinking - so I just went through 20 mock drafts and as a consensus the following could most likely be the players available at Picks 31and 63 (Sorry for it being such a long post)

Pick 31 Players who should be available but will be gone by pick 63 (in order by least likely available to most likely)

OT
Blake Miller Clemson
Max Iheanachor Arizona State
Austin Barber Florida

WR
K.C. Conception Texas A & M
Denzel Boston Washington
Bernie Bernard Alabama

TE
Eli Stowers Vanderbilt

Edge
Keldrick Faulk Auburn
Akheem Mesidor Miami
Cashius Howell Texas A & M
T.J. Parker Clemson
Zion Young Missouri

Safety
Dillon Thieneman Oregon
McNeil-Warren Toledo

LB
Jacob Rodriquez Texas Tech

Pick 63 Players who should be available but gone by pick 95 (in order by least likely available to most likely)

OG
Chase Bisontis Texas A & M
Emmanuel Pregnon Oregon
Gennings Dunker Iowa

WR
Malachi Fields Notre Dame
Chris Brazzell Tennessee

TE
Sam Roush Stanford
Max Klare Ohio State

Edge
Malachi Lawrence UCF
Jaishawn Barham Michigan
Keyron Crawford Auburn

Safety
A.J. Haulcy LSU
Jalon Kilgore South Carolina

LB
Jake Golday Cincinnati
C.J. Allen Georgia

If you can only pick one from each group - who would they be. (Or would you trade to pick up one more ?) Interesting dilemma

That's pretty much how teams stack boards. They use tier and choose between the top players rem

PatsFan2 · Mar 30, 2026

Real fan 02 said:
You're right twin!! Pathetic draft.. I'm surprised that was even recorded as a draft class...

It will be very easy to remember the Drake Maye only Draft. I think its' the only reason why Wolf is still here.

Real fan 02 · Mar 30, 2026

PatsFan2 said:
It will be very easy to remember the Maye only Draft. I think its' the only reason why Wolf is still here.

Yes ALL PRO Drake will be the only player left from his draft year... Wolf will leave at some point for a another job in another organization I sense that.. Vrabel-Cowden-stretch run the show...

pazrul72 · Mar 30, 2026

imahobgoblin said:
I am sorry, but you are just wrong. Our offensive scheme makes an absolute difference with the kind of plays called and players selected. From a coaching standpoint, you could not be more wrong. Yes, Owenu's contract expires next year. He had the best season of his career in 2025 and could be a candidte for an extension and lowering the team cap. The Pats just brought in his clone for a pre-draft interview in Auburn’s Jeremiah Wright. I mean the dude is a twin to Owenu. He has a road grader attitude that Owenu does not have and just kills people in the run game. If they are researching guys like this, it says that their scheme is based on power run. Of course Josh incorporates other plays from zone into a playbook. Every OC mixes things up so they are not predictable. The modern NFL playbooks all have overlap. That is not the point. Vrabel does not run the offense, nor does he need to. Josh is a wizard in the EPS. Everyone values hitting a big play with zone run, but you seem to think big plays don't come out of power gap. You don't build your offense based on 50 yard runs, you just equip it with the tools in order to do so with a package base that carries the work load. Modern teams need to have both zone and gap, but they also have a base. Again, the EPS typically does that out of power run, and I can't see that changing. There is no reason to change it.

Why aren't they signing or drafting drafting big powerful movers of men for a power rushing attack? Did you not see Alijah Vera-Tucker at 6'5" and 308lbs? He is highly effective in within power-run and gap schemes. The dude certainly is a mover of men, but is also quick and finishes his blocks downfield. James Hudson III is 6'5" and 313 lbs. His stint with the Giants was a disaster, but not so with the Browns when he was with Vrabel. He struggled with pass protection, but you look at his run blocking. He was noted for his aggressive approach in the run game, described as a "bully" who could effectively drive and ground defenders using his hands, often displaying a "nasty streak." This screams power run.

Where to start so I hit all your points. As you said yourself Josh has run zone stuff out of the EP to mix it up and keep the defense guessing from time to time. This tells me scheme is not as important as you are making it out to be, it's just how plays are named and called, versus a way it must play out on the field. 2007 we predominantly played spread and pass blocking was more valued then power run. That's closer to zone because when we ran it was against lighter boxes. With every play, formation, scheme there are pros and cons to it that of course over the span of a season will have exceptions. I'm talking in general zone runs offer a bigger chance of both a positive and negative play. Power run tends to be more consistent, it's like playing two gap versus blitzing you have to decide what's more important the gamble versus the consistent predictable production. And of course you need to be able to do both to mix it up and not be too easy to defend but we are talking base personnel you run the majority of the time.

I actually agree with you in that I think Josh prefers power runs, it's been his go to fundamental he returns to when the scheme isn't working. Playoffs 2018 as a prime example. Thing is this isn't Josh's team it's Vrables and while I don't think he is super involved on a micro level, he leaves that to Josh, I do think Vrable has a clear vision and plan that he expects Josh to carry out. Vrable strikes me as more of a gambler and prefers the riskier blitzing and zone runs that allows a worse team to beat better teams...while also on a bad day letting a worse team beat us when we are the better team. I obviously don't have any numbers to back that up it's just the impression I've gotten after watching him for a year.

Moving on to specific players, AVT at 308 and 6'5 is not a massive lineman. I don't have the numbers in front of me and I haven't watched a ton of his film but all accounts I've read says he is fast, mobile, and athletic. Sounds alot like Wilson and Campbell to me. Guys who are big and powerful like oh idk Owenu 6'3 350 are squatter and if you think he is actually 350 I have some beach front property in Kansas to sell you. Now don't take this as a diss of big Mike I like the player and would be just fine if he gets extended. Again I PREFER a power rushing attack and love seeing the big dogs move the line of scrimmage 3 yards forward. I just don't see that's the kind of players they are adding. They appear to value athletism over size and power. Have done zero research on the twin you mentioned so I'm going to assume he is a late round value pick...exactly the sort you take a chance on if you need someone to come in on the goal line and blow open a hole. And who knows maybe like Owenu he develops into something more, who was also a 6th round value pick.

Look I don't know for a fact they are moving to a zone run scheme, I could be wrong and would own that in Oct if I am, I'm just saying based on the personnel they are adding the pieces fit the puzzle.

scott99 · Mar 30, 2026

When you’re drafting at 31, you can only grab best player available. I’d be happy with Edge, Tackle, WR or TE. I’d be happy with one of any of those 4 positions.

p8ryts · Mar 30, 2026

scott99 said:
When you’re drafting at 31, you can only grab best player available. I’d be happy with Edge, Tackle, WR or TE. I’d be happy with one of any of those 4 positions.

OL, Edge, DT, LB. Can get TE, WR in lower rounds.

imahobgoblin · Mar 30, 2026

pazrul72 said:
Where to start so I hit all your points. As you said yourself Josh has run zone stuff out of the EP to mix it up and keep the defense guessing from time to time. This tells me scheme is not as important as you are making it out to be, it's just how plays are named and called, versus a way it must play out on the field. 2007 we predominantly played spread and pass blocking was more valued then power run. That's closer to zone because when we ran it was against lighter boxes. With every play, formation, scheme there are pros and cons to it that of course over the span of a season will have exceptions. I'm talking in general zone runs offer a bigger chance of both a positive and negative play. Power run tends to be more consistent, it's like playing two gap versus blitzing you have to decide what's more important the gamble versus the consistent predictable production. And of course you need to be able to do both to mix it up and not be too easy to defend but we are talking base personnel you run the majority of the time.

I actually agree with you in that I think Josh prefers power runs, it's been his go to fundamental he returns to when the scheme isn't working. Playoffs 2018 as a prime example. Thing is this isn't Josh's team it's Vrables and while I don't think he is super involved on a micro level, he leaves that to Josh, I do think Vrable has a clear vision and plan that he expects Josh to carry out. Vrable strikes me as more of a gambler and prefers the riskier blitzing and zone runs that allows a worse team to beat better teams...while also on a bad day letting a worse team beat us when we are the better team. I obviously don't have any numbers to back that up it's just the impression I've gotten after watching him for a year.

Moving on to specific players, AVT at 308 and 6'5 is not a massive lineman. I don't have the numbers in front of me and I haven't watched a ton of his film but all accounts I've read says he is fast, mobile, and athletic. Sounds alot like Wilson and Campbell to me. Guys who are big and powerful like oh idk Owenu 6'3 350 are squatter and if you think he is actually 350 I have some beach front property in Kansas to sell you. Now don't take this as a diss of big Mike I like the player and would be just fine if he gets extended. Again I PREFER a power rushing attack and love seeing the big dogs move the line of scrimmage 3 yards forward. I just don't see that's the kind of players they are adding. They appear to value athletism over size and power. Have done zero research on the twin you mentioned so I'm going to assume he is a late round value pick...exactly the sort you take a chance on if you need someone to come in on the goal line and blow open a hole. And who knows maybe like Owenu he develops into something more, who was also a 6th round value pick.

Look I don't know for a fact they are moving to a zone run scheme, I could be wrong and would own that in Oct if I am, I'm just saying based on the personnel they are adding the pieces fit the puzzle.

You are just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point and just have no clue what you are talking about. Just because Josh throws in a handful of zone schemes into the playbook does not means its a mix. AVT is a power run guard. Wilson had no business being at guard next to Campbell. He is a natural center, and claiming AVT is like him is complete ignorance. When AVT is healthy, he is a pro-bowl caliber player. Just stop it.

pazrul72 · Mar 30, 2026

imahobgoblin said:
You are just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point and just have no clue what you are talking about. Just because Josh throws in a handful of zone schemes into the playbook does not means its a mix. AVT is a power run guard. Wilson had no business being at guard next to Campbell. He is a natural center, and claiming AVT is like him is complete ignorance. When AVT is healthy, he is a pro-bowl caliber player. Just stop it.

My name isn't Andy I don't do that. I'm trying to show you my point of view which is different from yours and I'm backing it up with examples. AVT is not a power run guard he isn't big enough for that. You are confusing accolades for style. Just because he is pro bowl caliber doesn't mean he does so with power. Look at his combine scores, he is an athlete just like Wilson and Campbell. You're the one who keeps throwing out scheme when I was talking personnel.

imahobgoblin · Mar 30, 2026

pazrul72 said:
My name isn't Andy I don't do that. I'm trying to show you my point of view which is different from yours and I'm backing it up with examples. AVT is not a power run guard he isn't big enough for that. You are confusing accolades for style. Just because he is pro bowl caliber doesn't mean he does so with power. Look at his combine scores, he is an athlete just like Wilson and Campbell. You're the one who keeps throwing out scheme when I was talking personnel.

You are totally ignorant. AVT being a a guard in gap-blocking scheme has nothing to do with his weight. The Jets used a a heavy run-focused, gap-blocking scheme, heavily utilizing power concepts to fit their personnel. Am I confusing that as well? No, that was their offense. It just shows how stupid your argument is. Gap-blocking is about concepts, not weight. Just stop it. You are making yourself look like an idiot to anyone who understands Xs and Os. But if you want to be an idiot, go for it. A team selects personal that fits their scheme. Only a bonehead doesn't get that, but hey its ok. Be an ignorant bonehead. Its your choice.

Huckleberry1 · Mar 31, 2026

p8ryts said:
OL, Edge, DT, LB. Can get TE, WR in lower rounds.

That depends upon who drops and how much they like the player. I keep seeing mocks where JordynnTyson is available in the 20's, and as much as I like Hurst if another team covets him he could go way earlier than people expect and you end with no one you really want when you pick in the 2nd. I think they need to be aggressive in this draft, and trade some players and picks to get players they love. They don't need 10 this year, 5-6 rookies they love would be better, and depending upon who is available I think Douglass, Barmore, and Boutte could all be in play.

Salsalife · Mar 31, 2026

He's too soft. Knock Vrabel on his toosh is the bar.

imahobgoblin · Mar 31, 2026

scott99 said:
When you’re drafting at 31, you can only grab best player available. I’d be happy with Edge, Tackle, WR or TE. I’d be happy with one of any of those 4 positions.

I can see TE at 31 only if Kenyon Sadiq falls, which he won't. Putting a 4.39 TE with Drake would be nuts though and change this offense drastically.

RxJock1120 · Mar 31, 2026

Salsalife said:
He's too soft. Knock Vrabel on his toosh is the bar.

I dunno, the last guy that did that gave up like 15 sacks in the SB...

23	783

204	8K

1K	42K

Vrabel working out Max I at ASU pro day

Hall of Fame Poster

Hall of Fame Poster

PatsFans.com Supporter

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

Hall of Fame Poster

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

Hall of Fame Poster

In the Starting Line-Up

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

In the Starting Line-Up

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

In the Starting Line-Up

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

PatsFans.com Supporter

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

PatsFans.com Supporter

Similar threads

📅 This Week in Patriots History: