Gronk trade completed

UptownPatsFan said:

Brady and Gronk are GONE! Get over it!

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they're like a lot of new englanders going to florida to retire.

Lavictoire said:

What a disaster letting Brady and Gronk get away. If Brady stayed Gronk would have returned to get one more. They will will instead go to Tampa Bay. Wild card is Bellichick proves to be insanely so good that he pulls it off with a bunch of nobody's which is his specialty and I don't put it past him.

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I don't think there was any chance that Gronk was coming back to play for Belichick.

grux said:

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I have no idea how much success that Gronk & Brady will have playing for Arians. However,IMO they will look back when their careers are over and realize they were very lucky to play for Bill Belichick.

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I'm not sure of your point. I think that both Brady and Gronk realize that they were very lucky to play all those year for the patriots.

That doesn't mean that either them should have had any interest in playing another season for Belichick.

Jules talking to BB on the phone last night...

luuked said:

Players and coaches generally don't do it as their jobs hang in the balance. Management on the other hand.. they can play the long game..

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True - also in the Colts case their team president, GM and coach were all fired too. That’s what usually happens when a team bottoms out. None of them benefited from that “tanking” season so that’s why it’s really hard to believe teams would do that on purpose.

Brady and Gronk are basically going to Florida to retire. They think they can still play, sure, but they're not completely delusional, they know they're near the end.

They want to coast out playing on a good offensive roster with a less uptight coach who's openly glad to have them on the team, instead of playing head games with them and pinching pennies. $50 million guaranteed doesn't hurt either.

None of that means they regret spending their primes in the best organization in modern sports. It's apples and oranges. Why would a 43 year old with 6 rings want to throw to a bunch of ding-dongs with the dropsies and what's left of Julian Edelman's knee joints just so he can get ragged on Monday morning like he's a rookie FNG while getting paid half the market rate?

mgteich said:

I'm not sure of your point. I think that both Brady and Gronk realize that they were very lucky to play all those year for the patriots.

That doesn't mean that either them should have had any interest in playing another season for Belichick.

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I think that if they both came back and played for BB it gives them their best chance at winning a super bowl. Also, I may be wrong but I haven't heard Gronk mention how important BB was in helping him reach his goals.

Hypothetically speaking, if they don't win a super bowl in Tampa do you think either of them will look back and think they lost out on an opportunity to play two more years for the goat coach of all time?

mgteich said:

I'm not sure of your point. I think that both Brady and Gronk realize that they were very lucky to play all those year for the patriots.

That doesn't mean that either them should have had any interest in playing another season for Belichick.

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How do you not understand his point, lol? It’s clear as day: the grass isn’t always greener on the other side.

PatsWSB47 said:

Cassel and a 3-1 start doesnt prove anything. Thats 2 incidents in 20 years....and what the heck does not knowing theyd be sb champions have to do with anything. They were the superbowl team Garapollo and Bissett had the luxury of playing with. Both went on to be solid starters in the league and Garapollo went to a superbowl. I just think youre underestimating Bradys contribution. Belichick is the beat coach dont get me wrong

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I was responding to the point that yes it was a SB champion team that started 3-1. We didn’t know that at the time. I did read lots of talk that they would start 0-4 without Brady. They didn’t. Facts.

I think my posts are being read as anti-Brady. They’re not. My posts here are pro Belichick. One doesn’t have to be the other.

Cassel and the 3-1 start is a track record of Belichick without Brady. How good would Brady have been without Belichick? WE don’t know. We have no history to go on.

Deus Irae said:

No, what's your fault is your attempt to keep defending an asinine comparison, rather than just acknowledging that the obviously inappropriate comparison was an inappropriate comparison.

If you want to argue that the 2020 Patriots won't collapse without Brady, that's a different issue, and I'd simply say that it's way too soon to see where the teams of the AFCE are going to slot in the NFL.

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The latter is exactly what I’m arguing. The Patriots were never built to live or die based on one guy, not sure why some people think they are now. I also don’t think it’s asinine to look at some history and make judgements based on that.

grux said:

I think that if they both came back and played for BB it gives them their best chance at winning a super bowl. Hypothetically speaking, if they don't win a super bowl in Tampa do you think either of them will look back and think they lost out on an opportunity to play two more years for BB?

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What you're missing is the time factor.

Over the long term, staying with Belichick is absolutely the best play for championships.

The problem is, neither one of these guys HAS a long term.

Brady because of age, Gronk because of injury history.

Look at 2019. With or without Brady and Gronk, 2020 is likely worse. The rest of the offensive roster stinks on ice, they have no cap space for quick fixes, and the defense (that was BADLY exposed down the stretch, remember) has bled talent. Belichick's track record suggests a turnaround in 2021-22 once the cap space spikes and he's got 2 drafts to reload, but at that point Brady is 44-45.

He. Can't. Wait. If he's got another Super Bowl run in him, he needs to make it NOW. Belichick by contrast has to play the long game, partly because that's his nature but mostly because he has no choice - he has no 2020 cap space to do anything else.

From Brady's point of view, the choice was probably winning nothing in 2020 while being miserable throwing to mostly scrubs for low pay in New England, or maybe winning something in 2020 while being happy throwing to good players for high pay in Tampa.

Deus Irae said:

Is this the best trolling you can do? I don't give a single **** about betting odds. You'll either have to try another approach, or troll someone else.

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Right. But can I disagree .. Thing is , I'm looking for more analysis from your position .

. Since Gronk can easily be viewed as a top TE prospect at his age and without injury . Whitten showed the longevity of the position along with Gonzales.

Then you have Brady and Gronk together where the combo is greater than the sum of the parts. Easily boosts his stock. Another football smart player in the huddle on big plays both running or passing. They know each other and provide dual leadership and dual championship pedigree.

Pats hold out for better picks. What was rush ? since hype usually goes up without anything to quash it. As we are seeing from the media buzz about the trade. On going. But maybe there is something else to trade at later date. Is there a second deal coming..? Kinda like SF where Jimmy trade helped pats get the Left tackle they needed.

We shall see.

sb1 said:

Cassel was horrendous in that preseason. I remember he was being talked about as a candidate to be cut. I don’t think many of us were thinking of him as a future pro bowler.

Then he became pretty good and the system was adjusted to fit him. That’s coaching imo.

Colts also didn’t tank imo. Teams don’t do that at least not on purpose.

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You realize that Cassell took the Chiefs to the playoffs in his second season there right? It's not like Cassell was atrocious. There is a reason he was the backup... EG, he could play decent when called upon.

When the Colts finally played a decent QB the last 2 weeks of that season, after they secured Luck, they actually won.

Still don't know how a Coke snorting, pipe music into stadium, and blatantly tanking owner hasn't once been reprimanded by the Head office.

sb1 said:

The latter is exactly what I’m arguing. The Patriots were never built to live or die based on one guy, not sure why some people think they are now. I also don’t think it’s asinine to look at some history and make judgements based on that.

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Who is saying the Pats will go 2-14 without Brady?

The general consensus seems to be the Pats will be a borderline playoff team, not a 2-14 team.

gobesmug said:

You realize that Cassell took the Chiefs to the playoffs in his second season there right? It's not like Cassell was atrocious. There is a reason he was the backup... EG, he could play decent when called upon.

When the Colts finally played a decent QB the last 2 weeks of that season, after they secured Luck, they actually won.

Still don't know how a Coke snorting, pipe music into stadium, and blatantly tanking owner hasn't once been reprimanded by the Head office.

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Cassel was horrible in that preseason and there were fans calling for him to be cut. He was that bad. I don’t think anyone expected him to get better all of a sudden and lead this team to 11 wins.

Don't get the hate on Gronk. BB tried to trade him to Detroit. That's insulting to someone like Gronk.

The only person who shows zero loyalty is BB. Nothing wrong with that. Just don't hate the players for choosing their destination, instead of being forced to go where BB sends them.

sb1 said:

Cassel was horrible in that preseason and there were fans calling for him to be cut. He was that bad. I don’t think anyone expected him to get better all of a sudden and lead this team to 11 wins.

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Fans are stupid. BB didn't cut him, but instead kept him as his backup and didn't pick up Jeff Garcia after Brady went down like a lot of stupid fans wanted.

gobesmug said:

Who is saying the Pats will go 2-14 without Brady?

The general consensus seems to be the Pats will be a borderline playoff team, not a 2-14 team.

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I think the Patriots can win at least 9 games and make the playoffs. The departure of Brady didn’t turn a SB contending team to a bubble team or worse. The BB Patriots were never built on one guy. I’m hearing talk like they are.

FWIW...lol

There’s a “distinct possibility” that anybody ends up in NE.

UptownPatsFan said:

FWIW...lol

There’s a “distinct possibility” that anybody ends up in NE.

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Nothing has been said about Gronk passing his physical.