JOSH GORDON REINSTATED

KontradictioN said:

You ignored me one time. My day was ruined. I found myself in a corner of my house at the end of the day, in tears, with a handle of Jack Daniels and a revolver with one bullet.

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Lmfao I hope that I didn't tell you I ignored you. It's one of the cringiest most pathetic things people do online. I will ignore you but not before telling you I will ignore you and virtually getting the last word! I think I just told you after the fact. You grew on me. Like a tumor

A Defiant Goose said:

Lmfao I hope that I didn't tell you I ignored you. It's one of the cringiest most pathetic things people do online. I will ignore you but not before telling you I will ignore you and virtually getting the last word! I think I just told you after the fact. You grew on me. Like a tumor

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Nah you definitely told me at the time. Your loss because I’m a great guy.

KontradictioN said:

Nah you definitely told me at the time. Your loss because I’m a great guy.

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Must've been when I hadn't become an adult yet. Which tbh was only like when I turned 27 two years ago

A Defiant Goose said:

Lmfao I hope that I didn't tell you I ignored you. It's one of the cringiest most pathetic things people do online. I will ignore you but not before telling you I will ignore you and virtually getting the last word! I think I just told you after the fact. You grew on me. Like a tumor

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Doctor DDS said:

Hard to not be excited about this move. Provides speed, size and depth.

My Odds:
10% - we get 2013 Gordon when he averaged 117 yards a start and was a transcendent player (not the same stats but quality of play - opens things up for others) 80/1300/14
40% - slightly better version than last year - better shape and connection with Brady. 70/1100/8
25% chance - similar to last year. Up and down at times - some complaints heard about Brady going to him too much. Some huge games but several where he seems to disappear 60/950/6
10% - worse than last year. Struggles to stay healthy and becomes an after thought. 45/550/3
15% - plays well but ends up suspended by mid-season

Am expecting the slightly better version and am hopeful he has finally turned his life around.

A healthy and insynch Gordon, Edelman and Thomas could rival the 2007 receiving core and with a better running game this offense could be deadly.

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I think those odds look reasonable but sadly I think it’s about an 80% chance he is suspended again. I don’t see what has changed for a guy who fails drug tests every year.

A Defiant Goose said:

Must've been when I hadn't become an adult yet. Which tbh was only like when I turned 27 two years ago

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Adulting can be complicated. That's why many guys get married, so their wife can do most of it. I know it's worked out pretty well for me...so far. That is to say we are only 40 some odd years into the experiment so I don't want to jinx it.

maust1013 said:

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d%#*!@t!! I was about to look for this gif and then saw your post. Well played.

AndyJohnson said:

Josh Gordon ranked 43rd in the nfl in receiving yards.
28th in yards per game.
63rd in receiving TDs
92nd in receptions.

Excellent?

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You want stats? I give you stats!

There were 51 players in the NFL who had more than 700 yards receiving last year.

Among them Josh is ranked 2nd for Yards / Reception, at 18.0 to DeSean Jackson's 18.9 and he's ranked 2nd in Yards / Attempt at 11.3 to Tyler Lockett's 13.8.

Is that stats enough for you? Out of all receivers with decent overall production (700+ yards) he was one of the most efficient.

Here's top 20 players in Yards per reception for 2018 (filter 700+ yards receiving). I excluded Gordon's 1 game with Browns with 1 reception for 17 yards but it doesn't change anything.

Player Tm Yds▼ Y/R
1 DeSean Jackson TAM 774 18.9
2 Josh Gordon NE 720 18
3 Mike Evans* TAM 1524 17.7
4 Tyreek Hill*+ KAN 1479 17
5 John Brown BAL 715 17
6 Tyler Lockett SEA 965 16.9
7 Courtland Sutton DEN 704 16.8
8 T.Y. Hilton IND 1270 16.7
9 George Kittle* SFO 1377 15.6
10 Kenny Golladay DET 1063 15.2
11 Brandin Cooks LAR 1204 15.1
12 Robby Anderson NYJ 752 15
13 Julio Jones* ATL 1677 14.8
14 D.J. Moore CAR 788 14.3
15 Chris Godwin TAM 842 14.3
16 Robert Woods LAR 1219 14.2
17 DeAndre Hopkins*+ HOU 1572 13.7
18 Odell Beckham NYG 1052 13.7
19 Corey Davis TEN 891 13.7
20 Allen Robinson CHI 754 13.7

* Selected to Pro Bowl, + First-Team All-Pro

And here's top 20 players in Yards/Target for 2018 (700+ yards)

Player Tm Yds▼ Y/Tgt
1 Tyler Lockett SEA 965 13.8
2 Josh Gordon NE 720 11.3
3 Mike Evans* TAM 1524 11
4 Tyreek Hill*+ KAN 1479 10.8
5 T.Y. Hilton IND 1270 10.6
6 DeSean Jackson TAM 774 10.5
7 Brandin Cooks LAR 1204 10.3
8 George Kittle* SFO 1377 10.1
9 Julio Jones* ATL 1677 9.9
10 D.J. Moore CAR 788 9.6
11 DeAndre Hopkins*+ HOU 1572 9.6
12 Michael Thomas*+ NOR 1405 9.6
13 Tyler Boyd CIN 1028 9.5
14 Robert Woods LAR 1219 9.4
15 Amari Cooper* 2TM 1005 9.4
16 Alshon Jeffery PHI 843 9.2
17 Adam Thielen* MIN 1373 9
18 Kenny Golladay DET 1063 8.9
19 Chris Godwin TAM 842 8.9
20 Jared Cook* OAK 896 8.9

* Selected to Pro Bowl, + First-Team All-Pro

Is that Excellent enough for you?

Now how much are all those other guys getting paid? How much did we pay Josh for that best in class production amongst all receivers in NFL in terms of efficiency.

Did you figure it out?



And this is what his season would have looked like if scaled to 16 games with us.

Player Tm G GS Tgt Rec Ctch% Yds▼ Y/R TD Y/Tgt Y/G
Josh Gordon NE 16 16 93 58 57.70% 1046 18.0 6 11.3 65.4

I see many have DT as one of the 5/6 WRs. I would rather see Inman, who has similar physical traits, is 2 years younger, isn't coming back from an injury, and has had time to work with TB.

Hopefully he shows something in tonights game.

AndyJohnson said:

What excellence did he have that didn’t show up in a box score? What do WRS do that make them EXCELLENT that doesnt show up in a box score and how did Gordon show that?

.

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Just off the top of my head:
Downfield blocking for the other WRs is one thing that doesn't show up in stats.

Taking double coverage to the other end of the field from where the ball is going (run or pass) is another

[edited to copy the actual AJ post I was responding to. ]

MrTibbs said:

Weird stats with him though....Gordon averaged almost 17 yards per reception with the Pats but looked so slow. Anyone else notice that?

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I remember that his supposed lack of speed came up here last year. I don't think he's slow. He just runs so smoothly that he sometimes looks slow.

Nice have him back. Now how do we keep him sober?

Biffins said:

You want stats? I give you stats!

There were 51 players in the NFL who had more than 700 yards receiving last year.

Among them Josh is ranked 2nd for Yards / Reception, at 18.0 to DeSean Jackson's 18.9 and he's ranked 2nd in Yards / Attempt at 11.3 to Tyler Lockett's 13.8.

Is that stats enough for you? Out of all receivers with decent overall productivity (700+ yards) he was one of the most efficient.

Here's top 20 players in Yards per reception for 2018 (filter 700+ yards receiving). I excluded Gordon's 1 game with Browns with 1 reception for 17 yards but it doesn't change anything.

Player Tm Yds▼ Y/R
1 DeSean Jackson TAM 774 18.9
2 Josh Gordon NE 720 18
3 Mike Evans* TAM 1524 17.7
4 Tyreek Hill*+ KAN 1479 17
5 John Brown BAL 715 17
6 Tyler Lockett SEA 965 16.9
7 Courtland Sutton DEN 704 16.8
8 T.Y. Hilton IND 1270 16.7
9 George Kittle* SFO 1377 15.6
10 Kenny Golladay DET 1063 15.2
11 Brandin Cooks LAR 1204 15.1
12 Robby Anderson NYJ 752 15
13 Julio Jones* ATL 1677 14.8
14 D.J. Moore CAR 788 14.3
15 Chris Godwin TAM 842 14.3
16 Robert Woods LAR 1219 14.2
17 DeAndre Hopkins*+ HOU 1572 13.7
18 Odell Beckham NYG 1052 13.7
19 Corey Davis TEN 891 13.7
20 Allen Robinson CHI 754 13.7

* Selected to Pro Bowl, + First-Team All-Pro

And here's top 20 players in Yards/Target for 2018 (700+ yards)

Player Tm Yds▼ Y/Tgt
1 Tyler Lockett SEA 965 13.8
2 Josh Gordon NE 720 11.3
3 Mike Evans* TAM 1524 11
4 Tyreek Hill*+ KAN 1479 10.8
5 T.Y. Hilton IND 1270 10.6
6 DeSean Jackson TAM 774 10.5
7 Brandin Cooks LAR 1204 10.3
8 George Kittle* SFO 1377 10.1
9 Julio Jones* ATL 1677 9.9
10 D.J. Moore CAR 788 9.6
11 DeAndre Hopkins*+ HOU 1572 9.6
12 Michael Thomas*+ NOR 1405 9.6
13 Tyler Boyd CIN 1028 9.5
14 Robert Woods LAR 1219 9.4
15 Amari Cooper* 2TM 1005 9.4
16 Alshon Jeffery PHI 843 9.2
17 Adam Thielen* MIN 1373 9
18 Kenny Golladay DET 1063 8.9
19 Chris Godwin TAM 842 8.9
20 Jared Cook* OAK 896 8.9

* Selected to Pro Bowl, + First-Team All-Pro

Is that Excellent enough for you?

Now how much are all those other guys getting paid? How much did we pay Josh for that best in class production amongst all receivers in NFL in terms of efficiency.

Did you figure it out?

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Those are great stats. I’ve never said Gordon didn’t help the team or play well. I said he wasnt excellent dominant and didn’t resemble 2013 Gordon
Let me put it another way.
If this year Gordon has zero games with over 5 catches, 2 100 yard games and 58 receiving yards or less on half of his games would that meet your expectations of him and would you consider that dominant and excellent?

You don’t have to convince me he is good to have around and helps the team. That is obvious. But if you tell me you truly think his okay in 2018 was excellent and dominant I would be shocked.

Also how much did we pay him is irrelevant to evaluating how he played football. Relevant to other discussions but not that one.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

Nice have him back. Now how do we keep him sober?

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Pretty much just have to hope. At least we have some outside wr depth this time around.

TommyBrady12 said:

The 2019 offensive line and RBs are better and the WRs corps deeper. On paper, only the TE position is worse. I'm not saying the 2019 Pats will score as many points, but do I think it can be better than 2007? Yeah, I do. Certainly I think it will be more balanced.

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We don't yet know if the OL is better. We don't yet know if the WRs are better. We don't know if the RBs are deeper.

Other than that, you nailed it, because the TE position is definitely worse on paper.

A Defiant Goose said:

Lmfao I hope that I didn't tell you I ignored you. It's one of the cringiest most pathetic things people do online. I will ignore you but not before telling you I will ignore you and virtually getting the last word! I think I just told you after the fact. You grew on me. Like a tumor

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Just 3 quick points for you and Kontra. My apologies if I've missed any humor attempts, but I'm working on about 35 minutes of sleep, and the caffeine hasn't kicked in yet.

1. The ignore function is an excellent way to eliminate some of the noise. Nobody should willingly subject themselves to some of the clowns on the internet.
   
2. Letting someone know you're putting them on ignore is a kindness, so that they don't keep posting to you when you can't read or respond to those posts.
3. TommyBrady has lied, more than once, about putting me on ignore.

Gumby said:

Just off the top of my head:
Downfield blocking for the other WRs is one thing that doesn't show up in stats.

Taking double coverage to the other end of the field from where the ball is going (run or pass) is another

[edited to copy the actual AJ post I was responding to. ]

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Those are certainly areas to evaluate a WR.

When talking about elite dominant WR play I would consider production more important than blocking and I would expect taking double coverage to be a given to start the conversation of dominant WR.

As far as Gordon I’d say his blocking was a positive but I did not see him commanding excessive double teams in fact it was an issue all year that teams continued to double gronk. Not going to get into arguing that because it’s a rabbit hole so if we disagree on that point, so be it.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

Nice have him back. Now how do we keep him sober?

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I’m sure Tom has a guest room.

Pats can afford a body guard to follow him around

Deus Irae said:

We don't yet know if the OL is better. We don't yet know if the WRs are better. We don't know if the RBs are deeper.

Other than that, you nailed it, because the TE position is definitely worse on paper.

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Oddly enough I actually think 40 year old Watson is better than 27 year old Watson. Kyle Brady was a pretty good blocking TE but I actually think this group should be better than that one.

But other than TE its way to premature to compare this O to 07. Unless Gordon channels his 2013 self we are at least a Randy Moss short of 07.

But with this D we should be fine if our O is not 07 like.

Jangles said:

I’m sure Tom has a guest room.

Pats can afford a body guard to follow him around

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Didn’t work last year.
That’s the biggest concern.
Last year was Gordon’s supposed last chance.
He shot his way out of Cleveland. He had everything he wanted here. His team a d teammates supported him. He had any support needed at his disposal. He was playing well, the team was winning.
Yet he still violated, and while you have to be careful about reports, the reports at the time said he wasn’t doing well at all.

I hope he has gained perspective or whatever inner characteristic it will take him to beat this, but all the support possibly has been there for him and even was in Cleveland.
A body guard isn’t the solution.