Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

Brewskies said:

Will Kraft beat the rap? Now it is claimed that Kraft was with a licensed massage gal and also the owner. This could have been consensual sex. So many jokes out there about the Kraft situation.

Click to expand...

Tell me about it brother. I walk into a store the other day wearing my usual hat. I never go anywhere without it regardless. Anyways, one of the cashiers quipped “not jerkin you off” ha ha ha. I was amused at the time but as I thought it over, that quip was not fair. Wearing team hats shouldn’t lead to jokes and all that but my skins thick so I can take it on the nose. I will continue to purchase and wear team apparel, wear it out and buy new until I stop breathing.

AndyJohnson said:

I have never seen an anti-Semitic remark toward kraft on this board.

Click to expand...

I have.

Soliel said:

I have no issues with you either. Since you are correct and this could be viewed like that. I’m just going to edit the comment out. I don’t want anyone using any anti Semitic stuff on kraft or anyone else. I’m glad you pointed this out as I didn’t realize people were doing that. What I was getting at is this guy is a great lawyer.

Click to expand...

You're an adult living in a country with the first amendment. Freedom of speech is your birthright. Outside the requirements of the site, don't censor your comments because of others. Tell them to go pound sand.

Soliel said:

Tell me about it brother. I walk into a store the other day wearing my usual hat. I never go anywhere without it regardless. Anyways, one of the cashiers quipped “not jerkin you off” ha ha ha. I was amused at the time but as I thought it over, that quip was not fair. Wearing team hats shouldn’t lead to jokes and all that but my skins thick so I can take it on the nose. I will continue to purchase and wear team apparel, wear it out and buy new until I stop breathing.

Click to expand...

The appropriate reply would have been "I wouldn't let you if touch me for a million dollars". I got jokes, too

blackglass3 said:

The appropriate reply would have been "I wouldn't let you if touch me for a million dollars". I got jokes, too

Click to expand...

I could feel my face turning red from embarrassment. I laughed it off and completed my purchases. I was afraid to even start.

Brewskies said:

Will Kraft beat the rap? Now it is claimed that Kraft was with a licensed massage gal and also the owner. This could have been consensual sex. So many jokes out there about the Kraft situation.

Click to expand...

Consensual sex, performed to GET CASH FOR IT, is known as prostitution.

Not sure how that helps him beat a John rap. There are no trafficking charges for Kraft.

Soliel said:

Wearing team hats shouldn’t lead to jokes and all

Click to expand...

Why not?

Second story I have seen Kraft was recorded just twice, both times involving the 58 year old owner and/or the 45 year old manager (the latter of which also accompanied him to KC, apparently). His visits were also back to back, and reading it, it seems there is only a video of him paying anything the second time.

Several interesting faxcts--only evidence of two visits, right next to each other, only pay (maybe) the second time, and older women for whom there would be no suspicion they were trafficked. It might be wishful thinking, but one wonders if he went in the first time, got enticed by some action, that brought him back the next day, paid, and then decided to cool his jets after that. It would still be shameful and embarrassing, but makes him look much less creepy, etc. than what the narrative has been. Early on, I wondered if he was set up. It now seems clear that was not the case, but it is conceivable that his first visit went further than expected, whetted his appetite leading to an impulsive return the next day, and then he came to his senses and backed off. Very possibly not, but the set of facts makes this a reasonable consideration, IMO.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft pleads not guilty to two solicitation of prostitution charges | Daily Mail Online

Deus Irae said:

Why not?

Click to expand...

Yeah, you’re right. I tease people with browns, jets, lions, etc apparel.

Joker said:

So...the paperboy jaywalked this morning bringing me my paper... I immediately call the police demanding a response by the tactical SWAT unit...after all, a crime is a crime. Ain't that right?

Click to expand...

Absolutely Joker. I'm proud of you for needlessly wasting taxpayers money.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

Consensual sex, performed to GET CASH FOR IT, is known as prostitution.

Not sure how that helps him beat a John rap. There are no trafficking charges for Kraft.

Click to expand...

How do you know (aside from speculating or sheer judgment) that sex was performed to get cash? Because the cops say so?

Is it illegal to have sex in an office, or in an elevator, bathroom, etc. as long as nobody witnesses it?

Here's a scenario, this 58 yo lady is just one of his gf. He had consensual naughty sex with her and she invited a friend (oh my how disgusting). At the end he decided to give them shopping money or money for whatever reason (a loan, paying her back, or any 1000 reasons). If there is no audio it is not known what they said.

I'm not interested in you repeating what the cops said because they are 1. Extremely biased, and 2. Only interested in selling their version of events.

The only fact is you don't have any proof of anything at this time because you haven't heard the other side. Thus, people in general should be perceived to be innocent until proven guilty but knock yourself out with conjecture.

Soliel said:

Yeah, you’re right. I tease people with browns, jets, lions, etc apparel.

Click to expand...

I can see Jets, but teasing Lions fans is pretty cruel IMO.

Joker said:

So...the paperboy jaywalked this morning bringing me my paper... I immediately call the police demanding a response by the tactical SWAT unit...after all, a crime is a crime. Ain't that right?

Click to expand...

Well, what happened? Did they get the little bastard? Was he killed or captured?

Ivan said:

I have.

Click to expand...

You absolutely have and so have I. And I’m not thin skinned.

maust1013 said:

James 'Otis the Carpetbagger' Orthwein bought the Pats with the intention of moving them to St Louis. The logo change was just a small part of the overarching plan to make the team more palatable to his hometown.

Click to expand...

This doesn't make sense. Wasn't Orthwein's intention to rename the team once they were in St. Louis? There was never going to be a St. Louis Patriots, so why would changing the Patriots logo make any difference once they were moved?

Brewskies said:

Will Kraft beat the rap? Now it is claimed that Kraft was with a licensed massage gal and also the owner. This could have been consensual sex. So many jokes out there about the Kraft situation.

Click to expand...

The big thing is no one is bringing up the human trafficking angle any more. As far as we know, this is at worse a dime a dozen prostitution bust that made a big splash because the john happens to be a famous billionaire.

venecol said:

How do you know (aside from speculating or sheer judgment) that sex was performed to get cash? Because the cops say so?

Click to expand...

I made a comment earlier in the thread that it certainly isn't unheard for cops or prosecutors to lie, but I really doubt that is the case here. The level of specifics gives an air of authenticity to their statements.

venecol said:

Is it illegal to have sex in an office, or in an elevator, bathroom, etc. as long as nobody witnesses it?

Click to expand...

Well, since you asked, most of those things would be considered indecent exposure if done in public spaces - even if nobody witnessed it - but that's irrelevant since that is not what Kraft is accused of.

venecol said:

Here's a scenario, this 58 yo lady is just one of his gf. He had consensual naughty sex with her and she invited a friend (oh my how disgusting). At the end he decided to give them shopping money or money for whatever reason (a loan, paying her back, or any 1000 reasons). If there is no audio it is not known what they said.

I'm not interested in you repeating what the cops said because they are 1. Extremely biased, and 2. Only interested in selling their version of events.

The only fact is you don't have any proof of anything at this time because you haven't heard the other side. Thus, people in general should be perceived to be innocent until proven guilty but knock yourself out with conjecture.

Click to expand...

LOL! That's cool how you completely make up a scenario out of thin air where the 58 year old woman is his girlfriend who lent him a couple hundred bucks, then you accuse others of conjecture. Because billionaires need to take loans from regular people all the time...

If a prosecutor can prove (1) a sex act took place and (2) money changed hands, they are usually going to win in court unless the defense can prove there exists an outside relationship between the parties. And unless the DA is flat out lying (highly doubtful in this case) then they have what they need to prove that. No judge is going to be stupid enough to believe "the money was for the massage, the sex act was free." There's just no plausible deniability there.

LJRomanoff said:

This doesn't make sense. Wasn't Orthwein's intention to rename the team once they were in St. Louis? There was never going to be a St. Louis Patriots, so why would changing the Patriots logo make any difference once they were moved?

Click to expand...

LJRomanoff said:

This doesn't make sense. Wasn't Orthwein's intention to rename the team once they were in St. Louis? There was never going to be a St. Louis Patriots, so why would changing the Patriots logo make any difference once they were moved?

Click to expand...

Good point. They were to become the St Louis Stallions:

St. Louis Stallions - Wikipedia

https://i.redd.it/0guym1i9nud01.png

LJRomanoff said:

This doesn't make sense. Wasn't Orthwein's intention to rename the team once they were in St. Louis? There was never going to be a St. Louis Patriots, so why would changing the Patriots logo make any difference once they were moved?

Click to expand...

It's pretty convoluted. The Cards bolted for AZ, Anheuser-Busch heir James Busch Orthwein was among many influential folks in StL that were seriously unhappy about not having a team, Bud was an even bigger league advertiser then than it is now. Cards fans in general were pissed but there was a groundswell towards not getting another city's team but rather a new one. Since the league was taking expansion bids at the time there was a general feeling the St Louis Stallions were going to be one of two new teams. Otis was holding the Pats hostage, while quickly corporatizing them away from the Mom & Pop shop they'd been run like. Re-identification as a winner rather than being the laughingstock Patsies was the goal, not taking the name. StL didn't get an expansion team since the league was trying to leverage an LA stadium by keeping the market open as a threat. Otis decided he was going to buy out his lease and have the Pats become the Stallions but Krafty Bob turned down the $75M and the rest is history.