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[Deus Irae]

forget about welker and moss. they were established players. i'm talking about actually drafitng of players. the only players you cite that made major contributions to the team are ghost and maroney. having those guys are great but we need to hit some more home runs in the draft. the giants won the super bowl last year at the same draft table that BB was at. every single one of hte giants draft picks contributed in that super bowl win. ahmad bradshaw, kevin boss, aarron ross, etc. that's the kind of drafting i want to see from BB. he's not a bad drafter, it's just that the drafts could have gotten a little stronger in the past few years. i am excited about this year's draft though.

You just decide to take away the two best players gotten through the draft because they weren't picks, and then you ignore the drafting position of the others. That's just silly and a weak attempt to assert something that is otherwise obviously wrong.

However, even without Moss and Welker, the team's starting RB and K come from the group. A talented, but oft-injured duo of Thomas and Jackson have yet to be able to showcase themselves because of injuries, but show the sort of potential that could help even an 18-1 team. Furthermore, O'Callaghan is also vying for a starting role. All of this with just 4 players drafted above the 4th round. Perhaps if you'd actually taken the time to look before you typed, you'd have seen the error of your argument.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You just decide to take away the two best players gotten through the draft because they weren't picks, and then you ignore the drafting position of the others. That's just silly and a weak attempt to assert something that is otherwise obviously wrong.

However, even without Moss and Welker, the team's starting RB and K come from the group. A talented, but oft-injured duo of Thomas and Jackson have yet to be able to showcase themselves because of injuries, but show the sort of potential that could help even an 18-1 team. Furthermore, O'Callaghan is also vying for a starting role. All of this with just 4 players drafted above the 4th round. Perhaps if you'd actually taken the time to look before you typed, you'd have seen the error of your argument.

maybe the drafting isn't so bad afterall. my bad. however, there are a lot of maybees at this point including thomas, jackson and o'callagahn.

the team still has to go back the way we played defense in 2004 and control the line of scrimmage on offense and defense. what we did last year just won't work. go back and watch tapes of the 2004 or 2003 season and you'll know what i'm talking about.

 

[Deus Irae]

maybe the drafting isn't so bad afterall. my bad. however, there are a lot of maybees at this point including thomas, jackson and o'callagahn.

the team still has to go back the way we played defense in 2004 and control the line of scrimmage on offense and defense. what we did last year just won't work. go back and watch tapes of the 2004 or 2003 season and you'll know what i'm talking about.

The argument about "last year" might have had some merit if we hadn't seen that "last year" team go 18-1. You, and many others, have got to stop looking at an 18-1 year as if it were 1-18. The team was a fluke play away from being crowned the greatest team of all time.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The argument about "last year" might have had some merit if we hadn't seen that "last year" team go 18-1. You, and many others, have got to stop looking at an 18-1 year as if it were 1-18. The team was a fluke play away from being crowned the greatest team of all time.

i'm not trying to pick a fight or anything.

that's just the thing. i don't think we were a true 18-1 team. the 85' bears went 18-1 too but they would have killed the 07' pats. our dominance dwindled toward the end of the season, particularly in december when we played the ravens, giants and eagles. the playoff game against jacksonville was great, but then we stumbled a bit against San Diego.

 

[Deus Irae]

i'm not trying to pick a fight or anything.

that's just the thing. i don't think we were a true 18-1 team. the 85' bears went 18-1 too but they would have killed the 07' pats. our dominance dwindled toward the end of the season, particularly in december when we played the ravens, giants and eagles. the playoff game against jacksonville was great, but then we stumbled a bit against San Diego.

I really don't understand your arguments in light of the comparisons you keep putting forth. How often does 18-1 need to flash before your eyes, along with that helmet catch in the Super Bowl, before you grasp the simple truth: This past year's team was probably the greatest team in NFL history.

By the way, that Bears team lost a game in the regular season, and won 4 games by fewer than double digits on top of that. New England won 4 games by fewer than double digits as well. The Bears' last 4 games of the season were a loss, a 10 point win, a 13 point win and a 17 point win. For the Patriots, the last 4 games of the season were a 19 point win, a 10 point win, a 21 point win and a 3 point win.

The Bears' playoff opponents were 10-6, 11-5 and 11-5. The Patriots' playoff opponents were 11-5, 11-5 and 10-6. The difference between the '85 Bears and the 2007 Patriots was the timing of each team's loss. That, obviously, makes a huge difference because New England's was in the Super Bowl, but New England played the stronger schedule and lost to a hot team that matched up well against them at the Patriots' point of weakness (O-line with Neal injured).

Just think of it this way: If New England hadn't upset the Dolphins in the Championship game, we'd likely never talk about the '85 Bears and Marino would have won a Super Bowl.

 

[Sivy]

just my thought

85 bears: 21

07 Patriots: 35

 

[Keegs]

this thread blows.

and tommybrady is all over the godamn place. show a little quiet strength would you?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

A talented, but oft-injured duo of Thomas and Jackson have yet to be able to showcase themselves because of injuries,

Jackson has been injury-plagued. Thomas lost last season to injury, but was active in 15 of 16 RS games in 2006, even though he was stuck behind Watson and Graham.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The argument about "last year" might have had some merit if we hadn't seen that "last year" team go 18-1. You, and many others, have got to stop looking at an 18-1 year as if it were 1-18. The team was a fluke play that should have been called back on penalties away from being crowned the greatest team of all time.

I fixed your post for you. (at referees)

 

[ScottieC]

i'm not trying to pick a fight or anything.

that's just the thing. i don't think we were a true 18-1 team. the 85' bears went 18-1 too but they would have killed the 07' pats. our dominance dwindled toward the end of the season, particularly in december when we played the ravens, giants and eagles. the playoff game against jacksonville was great, but then we stumbled a bit against San Diego.

Uh, no way the '85 Bears would have killed us. I mean, that's just crazy talk.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

I do think Brady was not right in that game, his super bowl was ok, but the Giants really got to him.. And the Chargers also have a great defense.. But I think Brady if 100 percent wheather it was the flu or the ankle would have been better..

Brady does not do well against the Chargers or Broncos...

 

[Kontradiction]

It's amazing that we can go 18-1 and yet, still, people have something to ***** and moan about.

 

[cstjohn17]

The elephant in the room that you're ignoring is that if the O played at a level even CLOSE to how they did in EVERY other game last year, they would have won going the SB away. You do realize that the D you're *****ing about didn't allow a TD in 9 straight quarters in the playoffs, right? The D held up their end of the bargain. It's the offense that disappeared in Glendale. If you're blaming the D for the SB loss, I don't know what to tell you, except that impugning the D because of one flukey drive is very immature and reactionary.

I don't think anyone has captured my thoughts on last years playoffs so precisely. And the anger gets makes it all that more impressive.

Well done, like you read my mind.

 

[ScottieC]

The elephant in the room that you're ignoring is that if the O played at a level even CLOSE to how they did in EVERY other game last year, they would have won going the SB away. You do realize that the D you're *****ing about didn't allow a TD in 9 straight quarters in the playoffs, right? The D held up their end of the bargain. It's the offense that disappeared in Glendale. If you're blaming the D for the SB loss, I don't know what to tell you, except that impugning the D because of one flukey drive is very immature and reactionary.

Well, That's perfectly stated.

Good to see you posting Patjew!

 

[ScottieC]

It's amazing that we can go 18-1 and yet, still, people have something to ***** and moan about.

Clearly they have conveniently forgotten (or never witnessed) the 80's and 90's (sans a couple decent seasons).

 

[OhExaulted1]

i'm not trying to pick a fight or anything.

that's just the thing. i don't think we were a true 18-1 team. the 85' bears went 18-1 too but they would have killed the 07' pats. our dominance dwindled toward the end of the season, particularly in december when we played the ravens, giants and eagles. the playoff game against jacksonville was great, but then we stumbled a bit against San Diego.

We could apply the same logic to your post count.

 

[Kontradiction]

I really don't understand your arguments in light of the comparisons you keep putting forth. How often does 18-1 need to flash before your eyes, along with that helmet catch in the Super Bowl, before you grasp the simple truth: This past year's team was probably the greatest team in NFL history.

By the way, that Bears team lost a game in the regular season, and won 4 games by fewer than double digits on top of that. New England won 4 games by fewer than double digits as well. The Bears' last 4 games of the season were a loss, a 10 point win, a 13 point win and a 17 point win. For the Patriots, the last 4 games of the season were a 19 point win, a 10 point win, a 21 point win and a 3 point win.

The Bears' playoff opponents were 10-6, 11-5 and 11-5. The Patriots' playoff opponents were 11-5, 11-5 and 10-6. The difference between the '85 Bears and the 2007 Patriots was the timing of each team's loss. That, obviously, makes a huge difference because New England's was in the Super Bowl, but New England played the stronger schedule and lost to a hot team that matched up well against them at the Patriots' point of weakness (O-line with Neal injured).

Just think of it this way: If New England hadn't upset the Dolphins in the Championship game, we'd likely never talk about the '85 Bears and Marino would have won a Super Bowl.

Eh, I agree with most of what you said. But I don't think Marino could have torched that defense twice in one season.

 

[BelizePats]

"Playing like we did in 2004" is a great concept in theory. However, you have to have the players in oredr to do this. Our '04 linebackers were arguably the strength of our the defence, while in '06 and '07, it would be easy to argue that this position was our achilies heel.
I think that BB would agree, given that he took linebackers in the 1st and 3rd rounds in this years draft.
From my perspective, its hard to play intimidating team defence when you are often a step late on the play (see the Giants Superbowl winning drive and the loss to the Colts in the AFC Championship game the year before) Team speed is critical to ramping up the physiacl play. Just look at how BB and SP drafted this year at LB and CB. Improving the speed on defense was the number 1 priority. And you can argue that drafting Merriweather reflected this philosophy in back in 2007.
Improved speed on defence will greatly increase the physicality of the Pats D in 2008.
It's great to want to have the team play like they did in '04, but you gotta have the horses.
Respects,

Rich

 

[Patjew]

Well, That's perfectly stated.

Good to see you posting Patjew!

Thanks Scott, and thank you too cstJohn.

 

[cstjohn17]

"Playing like we did in 2004" is a great concept in theory. However, you have to have the players in oredr to do this. Our '04 linebackers were arguably the strength of our the defence, while in '06 and '07, it would be easy to argue that this position was our achilies heel.
I think that BB would agree, given that he took linebackers in the 1st and 3rd rounds in this years draft.
From my perspective, its hard to play intimidating team defence when you are often a step late on the play (see the Giants Superbowl winning drive and the loss to the Colts in the AFC Championship game the year before) Team speed is critical to ramping up the physiacl play. Just look at how BB and SP drafted this year at LB and CB. Improving the speed on defense was the number 1 priority. And you can argue that drafting Merriweather reflected this philosophy in back in 2007.
Improved speed on defence will greatly increase the physicality of the Pats D in 2008.
It's great to want to have the team play like they did in '04, but you gotta have the horses.
Respects,

Rich

It is very painful but please go back and look at the Superbowl again. The defense played very well. In the last drive last drive Thomas was all over Manning, he didn't look slow to me. The whole game / season / legacy came down to some dropped INTs.

If Samuel, Meriweather or Harrison hold on to those interceptions then we are talking about a 19-0 season with the defense giving up 10 points in the Superbowl with an average of less than 15 PPG throughout the playoffs.

If... only if... sigh.