OT: Dungy's view of integrity is situational...

[Hardboiled]

New England's situation in 2005 was completely different.

The Pats had already clinched the division and were locked into playing a game the next week, as the 3 or the 4 seed...

The Pats were playing for their own seeding and nothing else.

True, but that seeding affected who the Patriots played. The Patriots wanted to play the Jags.

A great Thread title after that game was "Best Loss Ever." It had the Flutie drop kick and a few other records as I remember.

 

[indycolts685]

I guess you missed the entire point of my post (1) regarding the claiming of high moral ground by St D and his myrmidions and the (2) significance of the game regarding teams in/not in the playoffs.

Well you and I both know he is NOT a saint. Sorry I did just re read your first post and now I understand where your coming from, sorry I wasn't trying to hijack your thread or anything.

 

[indycolts685]

No, it's not the same thing, because the playoffs were set at that point. That wasn't the case here.

The playoff seeding was set for us and thats all we really needed to worry about, I guess the way I look at things is we only needed to look out for number 1 and thats the Colts, I see it from your point of view also...

 

[JoePats]

True, but that seeding affected who the Patriots played. The Patriots wanted to play the Jags.

A great Thread title after that game was "Best Loss Ever." It had the Flutie drop kick and a few other records as I remember.

The Pats tanking a game that affects nobody but them is one thing. The Colts tanking a game to help a cronie make the playoffs and keep another team out entirely is another.

 

[ScottieC]

There was just speculation about an agreement, and nothing more, The only thing the Colts did was not call a timeout at the end of the game and try and let Sorgi drive the colts down the field with less then a min left in the game when for the entire game he was lucky to get 5 yards. I guess if Dungy called that one timeout then nobody would still be talking about it.

I just can't see any coach in the NFL having any kind of agreement to tank a game, not Dungy or anybody, or course being a Colts fan thats to be expected.

and for the record of course Im not a Pats fan and I am not buying into this spygate crap either (I don't think the Pats did anything illegal) it would be nice for that to come to a close once and for all..

Illegal?? No one thinks we did anything illegal, not even Specter.

 

[workhorse]

The Colts/Titans game determined who made the playoffs and who did not. And as DaBruinz pointed out, Kerry Collins came out and said that the two coaches had an agreement prior to the game.

Please show me were Collins said the was an agreement prior to the game.

 

[ScottieC]

I just have one question and I am not flaming you in anyway. Why are people still making a big deal out of this when other teams and coaches do this ever single year? Including the Pats against the Dolphins a few years ago, this is nothing new, it happens every year, The Jags did it this year and a few other teams but people only want to bring up the Colts. The Browns situation is totally not the Colts problem. Now if the Colts had played there starters and Manning suffered a season ending injury then everybody would be calling Dungy and the Colts the dumbest team in the league for playing starters. Just curious, not looking for a flame war or anything.

I for one wish we would have played our starters at least a little more to try and win the game.

Fact is this, Dungy was crying about the Patriots hurting the Spirit of the Game and the Integrity of the game. What he and Fisher did was EXACTLY that as well. No, he did not violate a rule in the NFL rule book, but he had a obligation to the game to play to win. HELL, HE ALWAYS has an obligation to the game and fans to play to win.

Sooooooo, Dungy needs to shut the hell up and retire already! Dang, he's as bad as Farve with that retirement crap.

Perhaps in next years Madden '10 there can be a Dungy rule to throw the game, that would be good.

 

[ScottieC]

Please show me were Collins said the was an agreement prior to the game.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22487240/

 

[Hardboiled]

Please show me were Collins said the was an agreement prior to the game.

"With Tennessee leading 16-10 and needing a victory to make the playoffs, the Titans had originally called a running play, Collins said. But the team changed to a kneeldown when he was told over his headset that the Colts wouldn't call a timeout, which would have possibly forced the Titans to punt with less than 20 seconds left in the game, Collins said."

"Apparently there was some communication between Jeff (Fisher) and Tony (Dungy)," Collins said on WFAN.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22487240/

 

[ScottieC]

I didn't realize the Pats didn't have the bye week when you played Miami, that does make a big difference. I wish Dungy would play it straight up for 16 games, enough of this resting starters crap, I don't like it and never will, but if Manning was to get hurt in a meaningless game then I might learn to like it though..

edit to add: Do other teams like the Colts really owe it to other teams to play with all starters in a meaningless game and risk injury to help the other teams into the playoffs? I think the Browns should have just taken care of business and then they wouldn't have had to worry about what we did...but thats just my biased opinion of course.

Ask Tom Coughlin that question.

 

[ScottieC]

Please show me were Collins said the was an agreement prior to the game.

Lets not forget that Dungy and Fisher are very good friends.

I hate when we start talking about this crap again, it really makes me mad.

 

[workhorse]

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22487240/

"With Tennessee leading 16-10 and needing a victory to make the playoffs, the Titans had originally called a running play, Collins said. But the team changed to a kneeldown when he was told over his headset that the Colts wouldn't call a timeout, which would have possibly forced the Titans to punt with less than 20 seconds left in the game, Collins said."

"Apparently there was some communication between Jeff (Fisher) and Tony (Dungy)," Collins said on WFAN.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22487240/

I'll say it again. Please show me where Collins said they had an agreement PRIOR to the game.

 

[Gainzo]

The bottom line is that Dungy did what many teams have done over the years. I have no problem with that.

What I do find issue with is Dungy getting acting like he is the Saint of the NFL and "integrity" means everything to him.

You can't have it both ways Tony.

 

[Keegs]

I'll say it again. Please show me where Collins said they had an agreement PRIOR to the game.

i have a hard time believing that you actually said this twice.

I bet you just typed it twice.

 

[FootballFanetic]

As Indycolts says above, playoff bound teams rest their starters all the time at the end of the year, so I don't get the big deal here (nor does anyone else in the League--probably not even the Browns). Even the article you guys cited only claimed that there was potentially an agreement to not call a timeout late in the game when it was pretty much over, hardly what some of your more sensationalistic claims earlier state (i.e., that there was some kind of pre-game collusion to tank the game). As a fan of neither team, I just don't get the hate for the Colts here, other than perhaps the jealousy that you accuse others of over your team--here, jealousy of the fact that Dungy and the Colts are actually respected almost universally around the League as good guys and good, clean, honest competitors.

As noted, I'm not a Colts fan, but even you guys here have to admit that Polian has done a pretty amazing job with them--I read last year that none of their 22 starters has ever played for another team. An elite team that's all homegrown is pretty amazing in this day and age.

Flame away.....

 

[Gainzo]

As Indycolts says above, playoff bound teams rest their starters all the time at the end of the year, so I don't get the big deal here (nor does anyone else in the League--probably not even the Browns). Even the article you guys cited only claimed that there was potentially an agreement to not call a timeout late in the game when it was pretty much over, hardly what some of your more sensationalistic claims earlier state (i.e., that there was some kind of pre-game collusion to tank the game). As a fan of neither team, I just don't get the hate for the Colts here, other than perhaps the jealousy that you accuse others of over your team--here, jealousy of the fact that Dungy and the Colts are actually respected almost universally around the League as good guys and good, clean, honest competitors.

As noted, I'm not a Colts fan, but even you guys here have to admit that Polian has done a pretty amazing job with them--I read last year that none of their 22 starters has ever played for another team. An elite team that's all homegrown is pretty amazing in this day and age.

Flame away.....

Very good points but what we are trying to say in this thread is that Dungy places himself on a moral and integrity plateau higher than every other Coach in the League.

Then he pulls this stuff. As I said in my previous post: "You can't have it both ways Tony."

The media loves Tony, no doubt about it. But he doesn't exactly shy away from the spotlight when it comes to being the "moral compass" of the NFL.

 

[ScottieC]

I'll say it again. Please show me where Collins said they had an agreement PRIOR to the game.

What do you think, they made the arrangement at Half-Time while getting a hot dog at the concession booth? Dude, you're not so smart, huh?

 

[Hardboiled]

I think throwing games casts a significantly higher shadow on the integrity of the league than filming from an unnacceptable spot.

You would think huh?

There are two main points:

1) People are tired of Dungy being always given a pass and held up as pilar of respect, goodness, wholesomeness, sportsmanship, and everything else that makes this country great. I don't hate the guy or disrespect him, but I am always amazed at the treatment he gets.​

2) We are all used to seeing teams not really trying during the last game when playoffs are ahead. Call it laying down, tanking or whatever you want.

But Goodell has thrown out all his "fair play" bs and integrity stuff from his alter last September for what I see as a minor rule-breaking. So I wonder what must Goodell think of everything else that may be questionable but has been going on for years?

Regardless of who is doing it - is tanking a game in line with "All teams playing by the same rules" and all games on a "level playing field"?​

I assume that if Tony D actually said, "Jeff Fisher is my friend and I wanted him to get into the playoffs. It's an honor for me to help him and I'm proud of all his hard work and dedication. A great coach and a great friend, " Dungy would be praised and get the Congressional Metal of Honor.

 

[ScottieC]

You would think huh?

There are two main points:

1) People are tired of Dungy being always given a pass and held up as pilar of respect, goodness, wholesomeness, sportsmanship, and everything else that makes this country great. I don't hate the guy or disrespect him, but I am always amazed at the treatment he gets.​

2) We are all used to seeing teams not really trying during the last game when playoffs are ahead. Call it laying down, tanking or whatever you want.

But Goodell has thrown out all his "fair play" bs and integrity stuff from his alter last September for what I see as a minor rule-breaking. So I wonder what must Goodell think of everything else that may be questionable but has been going on for years?

Regardless of who is doing it - is tanking a game in line with "All teams playing by the same rules" and all games on a "level playing field"?​

I assume that if Tony D actually said, "Jeff Fisher is my friend and I wanted him to get into the playoffs. It's an honor for me to help him and I'm proud of all his hard work and dedication. A great coach and a great friend, " Dungy would be praised and get the Congressional Metal of Honor.

I agree, someone call Specter. He really needs to be updated on Dungygate.

 

[Gainzo]

You would think huh?

There are two main points:

1) People are tired of Dungy being always given a pass and held up as pilar of respect, goodness, wholesomeness, sportsmanship, and everything else that makes this country great. I don't hate the guy or disrespect him, but I am always amazed at the treatment he gets.​

2) We are all used to seeing teams not really trying during the last game when playoffs are ahead. Call it laying down, tanking or whatever you want.

But Goodell has thrown out all his "fair play" bs and integrity stuff from his alter last September for what I see as a minor rule-breaking. So I wonder what must Goodell think of everything else that may be questionable but has been going on for years?

Regardless of who is doing it - is tanking a game in line with "All teams playing by the same rules" and all games on a "level playing field"?​

I assume that if Tony D actually said, "Jeff Fisher is my friend and I wanted him to get into the playoffs. It's an honor for me to help him and I'm proud of all his hard work and dedication. A great coach and a great friend, " Dungy would be praised and get the Congressional Metal of Honor.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Excellent post.

ScottieC: Did you see "Real Time with Bill Maher" last night on HBO? Specter was interviewed and avoided all political questions. All he did was pimp his book. There was no mention of the Patriots.

I'm happy that Specter beat cancer but I'm not happy that a United States Senator is pimping a book to put money in his pocket.

Specters performance last night was disgraceful.