will the Pats spend?

[Wozzy]

Belichick certainly didn't set Mayo up for success, and neither did Kraft. That said, it basically came down to the fact that Drake Maye showed he was even better than advertised. Kraft had to choose between Maye's development and Mayo's, and correctly chose Maye's.

Mayo didn't set Vrabel up for success, Vrabel did it himself. The notion that Bill was responsible for Mayo's mess is a laughable one.

It took Vrabel all of one offseason to build a Super Bowl contender. The hard work of the rebuild was done all the way back in 2020 when they cleared all the dead cap off the books. It only took so long to fix because collaboration was a disaster and the owners were at war with their head coach.

Wolf and Mayo were responsible for that 2024 mess... and whoever hired Mayo's unqualified azz.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Mayo didn't set Vrabel up for success, Vrabel did it himself. The notion that Bill was responsible for Mayo's mess is a laughable one.

He doesn't bear all the responsibility, but he certainly bears a good portion of it. While it didn't help that Mayo et al. really had no clue what they were looking for, remember that the 2024 draft preparation was based on Belichick's system.

 

[mgteich]

@TommyD4207 is correct. The Pats were among the worst in the league in cash spending over the last 10 years.

Study: Patriots among NFL’s lowest spenders over past 10 years

A new study from The Athletic shows the Patriots haven’t been spending as much on players as most of their peers.

sports.yahoo.com

However, the underlining problem is how they were/are spending their money.

Post BB, they had spending spree in 2024 contrary to popular opinion when Mayo took over. Problem is, it was on the wrong players:

"So the team said, “Screw it …” and signed several of their own guys to wild deals. They literally had to spend it somewhere, so they paid their guys."

"But while Christian Barmore (four years, $84 million), Kyle Dugger (four years, $58 million), Rhamondre Stevenson (four years, $36 million) and Mike Onwenu (three years, $57 million) are capable, none are even among the top 10 in the league at their position. The team struggled again, misery became more entrenched and another change was made.

Curran: Are the Patriots cheap? The evidence says no

Tom E. Curran analyzes the Patriots’ recent spending and what the future might look like.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

The part in bold seems to be a concept some posters flat out can't understand. Posters were in denial and thought Dugger was among the league's best S's. He lasted one season after that horrific contract was signed. He just signed a one year contract with the Bengals after being one and done with the Steelers.

Owenu just took a pay cut and will be a FA in 2027.

Posters continually think Barmore is this dominant force inside and doesn't have guaranteed money after 2026.

Rham also doesn't have guaranteed money coming his way after 2026.

Don't be shocked when the remaining 3 guys are gone after this season.

One can choose to believe that what Vrabel really cares about is whether the player is a leftover for the past.

I would not be surprised to see Onwenu, Barmore or Stevenson gone. I also wouldn't be surprised to see them extended. My suspicion is that all of them will play well enough for Vrabel to want them back at a reasonable price.

Onwenu is a good example. Vrabel could have simply cut him. There was no new guaranteed money this year. Vrabel essentially signed an experienced starting RG for $10M (similar to signing Moses last year). We'll see what the numbers are next year for all three. I don't think that there is any reason for creating holes by cutting any of them if the team can have them back for a reasonable price.

 

[n1997y]

He doesn't bear all the responsibility, but he certainly bears a good portion of it. While it didn't help that Mayo et al. really had no clue what they were looking for, remember that the 2024 draft preparation was based on Belichick's system.

By your logic the 2025 draft was based on Mayo’s system. Or was it based on Belichick’s?

Or, it didn’t take Vrabel any longer than Mayo had to change things and get it right.

If Mayo knew what he was doing and what he wanted he could’ve changed things quickly too. But he didn’t.

 

[VJCPatriot]

If you're talking about Gonzalez, he is top of the list as far as a must sign player for the Patriots this offseason.

If we look back, the stinginess at the GM position and the contracts given out to players probably came more from BB's own beliefs on what he was willing to pay players rather than some directive from the Krafts to pinch pennies.

 

[rkarp1]

By your logic the 2025 draft was based on Mayo’s system. Or was it based on Belichick’s?

Or, it didn’t take Vrabel any longer than Mayo had to change things and get it right.

If Mayo knew what he was doing and what he wanted he could’ve changed things quickly too. But he didn’t.

2025 was based on Wolf's system and intel

 

[Rob0729]

@TommyD4207 is correct. The Pats were among the worst in the league in cash spending over the last 10 years.

Study: Patriots among NFL’s lowest spenders over past 10 years

A new study from The Athletic shows the Patriots haven’t been spending as much on players as most of their peers.

sports.yahoo.com

However, the underlining problem is how they were/are spending their money.

Post BB, they had spending spree in 2024 contrary to popular opinion when Mayo took over. Problem is, it was on the wrong players:

"So the team said, “Screw it …” and signed several of their own guys to wild deals. They literally had to spend it somewhere, so they paid their guys."

"But while Christian Barmore (four years, $84 million), Kyle Dugger (four years, $58 million), Rhamondre Stevenson (four years, $36 million) and Mike Onwenu (three years, $57 million) are capable, none are even among the top 10 in the league at their position. The team struggled again, misery became more entrenched and another change was made.

Curran: Are the Patriots cheap? The evidence says no

Tom E. Curran analyzes the Patriots’ recent spending and what the future might look like.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

The part in bold seems to be a concept some posters flat out can't understand. Posters were in denial and thought Dugger was among the league's best S's. He lasted one season after that horrific contract was signed. He just signed a one year contract with the Bengals after being one and done with the Steelers.

Owenu just took a pay cut and will be a FA in 2027.

Posters continually think Barmore is this dominant force inside and doesn't have guaranteed money after 2026.

Rham also doesn't have guaranteed money coming his way after 2026.

Don't be shocked when the remaining 3 guys are gone after this season.

In fairness to the Owenu deal, they were originally going to keep him at RT and that plan changed. Owenu himself said he thought the plan was to keep him at RT after he signed the deal. His contract was not exceptionally large for a tackle. But then they reversed course and put him back at RG. He is way overpaid as a guard.

And Barmore was trending in the right direction when he signed the deal and then he had the blood clot issue. He was coming off an 8.5 sack season when they gave him the new deal. He was looking that he was emerging as a top DT. Maybe with another year back from his medical issues, he goes back to being an 8.5 sack player. I don't blame the Pats for giving him that contract. Most teams would have.

I never got the Dugger contract. Yes, he did make a handful of impressive INTs and pass break ups, but he would get burnt a lot too. I am wondering if Mayo pushed to keep him. It doesn't seem like Wolf was too attached to him since he was quick to trade him last year.

Stevenson showed his second year he could be a solid lead back. Unfortunately, after he got his contract, he got the dropsies and became unreliable. He seems to have cured those issue. And he was an impact player last year. I really don't care about his contract though because RBs get paid relatively peanuts in NFL terms. I mean Dugger got almost double the money.

I can see all three Owenu, Barmore, and Stevenson either here or gone. It will all depend on whether they want to stay here and are willing play ball with the Pats on new contracts (Owneu) or redoing their deals (Barmore, Stevenson).

 

[Family]

The original poster is blaming fans for something the players and former coaches voted on or said. He’s also trying to conflate payroll with facilities and amenities. I never whined, I just pointed out where he was wrong.

The irony is I have a twenty+ year posting history defending the Patriots payroll and salary cap allocation as “smart.”

At the same time Rkarp was calling Bill cheap, not knowing that their low spending ways were going on for two coaches prior to the guy living rent free in his head.

It was cool when he could blame “cheap” on BB, but when current NFLPA player polls and historical data shows it was the team all along… it’s no longer cool. He’s full of manure.

What does the original poster have to do with what I said?

Facts you ignore:

He paid BB whatever was needed, and kept the dynasty going for two decades providing whatever resources Bill required.
Since Bill left the team has paid for players.
He purchased the first team plane.
Without mentioning that whatever Kraft did worked because they have been winners.

But you whine about bologna sandwiches and illegal NFLPA polls when league popularity never falls in favor of the Patriots anyway.

 

[bresna]

There is a lot of BS in this thread. One of the funniest takes is that the Patriots signed Bledsoe "on the cheap" in 2001 because they had a 4th string QB on their bench that they felt was a future Hall of Famer. I mean c'mon - Bledsoe's 2001 contract made him the highest paid player in the NFL.

I don't even want to get into this Brady crap again. The guy wanted to leave so he left. How can anyone think that any team can force any player to sign with a certain team?? Players leave because they want to leave and in Brady's case, he forced the Patriots to write his last contract with them to include clauses to force them to allow him to become a free agent. That contract was not in the Patriots' best interest. That was for Tom, as Kraft said at the time. They did it because Tom wanted it, not because they did.

 

[rkarp1]

What does the original poster have to do with what I said?

Facts you ignore:

He paid BB whatever was needed, and kept the dynasty going for two decades providing whatever resources Bill required.
Since Bill left the team has paid for players.
He purchased the first team plane.
Without mentioning that whatever Kraft did worked because they have been winners.

But you whine about bologna sandwiches and illegal NFLPA polls when league popularity never falls in favor of the Patriots anyway.

he whines about bologna sandwiches from 1997

 

[Wozzy]

He doesn't bear all the responsibility, but he certainly bears a good portion of it. While it didn't help that Mayo et al. really had no clue what they were looking for, remember that the 2024 draft preparation was based on Belichick's system.

Nonsense. There’s no “system” carryover and Wolf was here since 2020 drafting guys for a west coast system before they even ran one. If Bill was gumming up the works, then 2024 was the offseason for Wolf to let his
method fly.

There’s no good time to draft crappy prospects, there’re no good time to sign Chuks Okorafor, Nick Leverett and Michael Jordan and pretend they’re good players at the most important offensive positions outside of QB.

Wolf on his own was clueless and if Mayo was supposed to be his north star it’s no wonder it was a disaster. Mayo was an inexperienced boob.

 

[Wozzy]

What does the original poster have to do with what I said?

Facts you ignore:

He paid BB whatever was needed, and kept the dynasty going for two decades providing whatever resources Bill required.
Since Bill left the team has paid for players.
He purchased the first team plane.
Without mentioning that whatever Kraft did worked because they have been winners.

The original poster clearly lied in his original post. It’s BB hate disguised as content creation. I pointed it out.

More importantly find one post of mine complaining about the Patriots being “cheap” with player contracts going back two decades. You won’t find it.

I argued for decades spending to the cap and not overspending was smart. I defended the team when posters like Rkarp were calling them cheap. I had to explain to him that the NFL had a salary cap, and it was a hard cap.

The original poster argued BB screwed up because he didn’t give JC Jackson, a player Bill found in the undrafted ranks, a 90 million dollar contract. Chargers fans now view that contract as the biggest mistake in franchise history.

The original poster called Bill cheap when he didn’t pony up millions to pay the corpse of Julio Jones despite him being burnt toast.

But you whine about bologna sandwiches and illegal NFLPA polls when league popularity never falls in favor of the Patriots anyway.

Again, I didn’t whine about sht… I corrected the original poster that fans mostly weren’t complaining about the Krafts being cheap.

The players complained about the Krafts being cheap in an NFLPA poll, players from all 32 teams called the Patriots facilities and amenities crap…. not fans.

The laughable part is the embarrassment caused by the results of the poll forced them to act to fix the facilities.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I have long complained that the knocks on RK or JK have been misplaced, when it comes to contracts.

"the Krafts are cheap" is commonly posted here.
is it the Krafts? or was it Bill?

Perfect illustration of the difference between a leading question ("The Krafts are cheap, aren't they?") and a loaded question ("Are the Krafts cheap or was Bill?")

The Pats spent up to the cap. The only discretion was who they spent it on and when they spent it, and that, rightly, was the decision of the GM-Head Coach. So no one was "cheap".

 

[Family]

@TommyD4207 is correct. The Pats were among the worst in the league in cash spending over the last 10 years.

You're going to be at the bottom in spending when 5 rookie contracts and Cam Newton are your QB's.

They (stupidly) tried to sign some big priced WR's (Aiyuk, Ridley, Higgins) who refused to come here. Some I'm sure I've forgotten.

 

[ScottishPatriots]

Belichick was frugal but it was quite obviously based on the budget he was set by ownership and how he thought best to use it, the Pats are going to spend the average of the cap over 3-5 years.

Teams like the Eagles push money into the future and spend more, it's always baffled me that people think a coach of any team in any sport would choose to not spend money and instead make more for ownership by spending under budgets i don't think that's the case.

The one thing you could accuse Belichick of would be pocketing such a large chunk of the coaching budget for himself you got a bunch of underqualified, underpaid people on staff, his kids, his friends kids and lacrosse bros working on the coaching staff for 50 grand and the standard of the coaching staff going down the toilet.

 

[Family]

Belichick was frugal but it was quite obviously based on the budget he was set by ownership and how he thought best to use it, the Pats are going to spend the average of the cap over 3-5 years.

Teams like the Eagles push money into the future and spend more, it's always baffled me that people think a coach of any team in any sport would choose to not spend money and instead make more for ownership by spending under budgets i don't think that's the case.

They remained Super Bowl contenders, even mostly favorites for two decades. I know Tom Brady, but you need more. How do you think they did it? Many say they were even ****ty to average drafters.

The Eagles were 4-11 in 2020.

Let's see how long they last?

 

[Clonamery]

Belichick was frugal but it was quite obviously based on the budget he was set by ownership and how he thought best to use it, the Pats are going to spend the average of the cap over 3-5 years.

Teams like the Eagles push money into the future and spend more, it's always baffled me that people think a coach of any team in any sport would choose to not spend money and instead make more for ownership by spending under budgets i don't think that's the case.

The one thing you could accuse Belichick of would be pocketing such a large chunk of the coaching budget for himself you got a bunch of underqualified, underpaid people on staff, his kids, his friends kids and lacrosse bros working on the coaching staff for 50 grand and the standard of the coaching staff going down the toilet.

Belichick's first gig in the NFL was with the Baltimore Colts and he was paid $25/week (before taxes, and notice I didn't say for 40 hours because he slept at the stadium).

 

[rkarp1]

Belichick's first gig in the NFL was with the Baltimore Colts and he was paid $25/week (before taxes, and notice I didn't say for 40 hours because he slept at the stadium).

no wonder he was so cheap with player contracts!!

 

[Jackson 2]

no wonder he was so cheap with player contracts!!

Nonsense. He wasn't. Spent to the cap nearly every year. He paid the guys in middle of the roster better than any other team.

 

[Triumph]

There is a lot of BS in this thread. One of the funniest takes is that the Patriots signed Bledsoe "on the cheap" in 2001 because they had a 4th string QB on their bench that they felt was a future Hall of Famer. I mean c'mon - Bledsoe's 2001 contract made him the highest paid player in the NFL.

I don't even want to get into this Brady crap again. The guy wanted to leave so he left. How anyone can think that any team can force any player to sign with a certain team?? Players leave because they want to leave and in Brady's case, he forced the Patriots to write his last contract with them to include clauses to force them to allow him to become a free agent. That contract was not in the Patriots' best interest. That was for Tom, as Kraft said at the time. They did it because Tom wanted it, not because they did.

BB wanted Brady gone too.

BB was tired of TB12 and Deepak Chopra and wanted his team back. Also, BB did not want all his Super Bowl success to be because of Brady like it is today. BB is a system guy like Parcells who won 2 Super Bowls with different QBs.